Fitting, sewing, patterns, and useful stuff

[Irene]

Hello to all born after the Great Divide...

There are excellent books on how to draft patterns, sew clothing,
alter and fit same, etc. :

"How to Make Clothes that Fit and Flatter", Adele Margolis, Doubleday,
1969

"The Complete Book of Tailoring", Adele Margolis, Doubleday, 1964

"Make Your Own Patterns", Adele Margolis, Doubleday, 1985

These are excellent books that give all the details. I own all three
and there is a little repetition between them but all are EXTREMELY
useful and handy. Wild Ginger is fine for drafting for difficult
figures, but these books tell you how the software should work in
terms of how the pattern works and how the clothing goes together.

When I buy a pattern, I read the instructions, and then head over to
these books for the most sensible way to put something together.

There are even examples of mens garments (and you will get the info if
you read with a genderless mind).

The only other sewing reference that I use came from watching my
mother fit clothing on me (I was looking in the mirror). Fitting is
something that should ONLY be done by an observer who can see how the
front and back work together (and hopefully who knows how to fix
problems).

These books are available used through tomfolio.com (or other used
book source)

(how do I define the great divide? um...hm... family audience...)

Good luck with YOUR fitting--Irene

[[email protected]]

Fitting, sewing, patterns, and useful stuff

(Irene)
Hello to all born after the Great Divide...
There are excellent books on how to draft patterns, sew clothing, alter
and fit same, etc. :
<snipped list of my favorites: Adele P Margolis' books>
---
Welcome to the sewing circle, Irene. Great minds think alike, :) I
recommend the same books from time to time, with the added proviso that
they are out-of-print, but it is well worth scouring the secondhand
market for them.
Glad you're here, pull up a sewing chair.
Cea

[SewStorm]

>
>"Make Your Own Patterns", Adele Margolis, Doubleday, 1985

This now out of print book used to be in our local library, but a lady I know
kept it out on loan ALL the time. I have no idea if it's still there, or if she
still has it, 12 years later! LOL

Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

[Irene]

Hi Cea, thanks for the welcome. Meanwhile back at the ranch Dwight is
still TRYING to find instructions, and I had even offered him a good
pattern for a coat that is identical except for a hood instead of a
collar.

Gee, maybe some men can't aim in the toilet bowl (discussion of a few
weeks ago) because they are still living with Stone Age brains: it has
to JUMP UP AND BLAST THEM IN THE FACE before they can track an object.

--Irene



> There are excellent books on how to draft patterns, sew clothing, alter
> and fit same, etc. :
> <snipped list of my favorites: Adele P Margolis' books>
> ---
> Welcome to the sewing circle, Irene. Great minds think alike, :) I
> recommend the same books from time to time, with the added proviso that
> they are out-of-print, but it is well worth scouring the secondhand
> market for them.
\

[duh who]

"Irene" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi Cea, thanks for the welcome. Meanwhile back at the ranch Dwight is
> still TRYING to find instructions, and I had even offered him a good
> pattern for a coat that is identical except for a hood instead of a
> collar.

From what I saw it was not what I wanted.

>
> Gee, maybe some men can't aim in the toilet bowl (discussion of a few
> weeks ago) because they are still living with Stone Age brains: it has

Gee, aren't you nice.

[duh who]

"duh who" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Irene" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Hi Cea, thanks for the welcome. Meanwhile back at the ranch Dwight is
> > still TRYING to find instructions, and I had even offered him a good
> > pattern for a coat that is identical except for a hood instead of a
> > collar.
>
> From what I saw it was not what I wanted.
>
> >
> > Gee, maybe some men can't aim in the toilet bowl (discussion of a few
> > weeks ago) because they are still living with Stone Age brains: it has
>
> Gee, aren't you nice.

Here's our conversation that happened offline. Nothing worse than a woman
scorned, eh?

> I couldn't resist the urge to answer your posting.
>
> Now that I have had a chance to look, I found two patterns: a mens aloha
shirt in multiple sizes to XXXL, and a duffle coat. The aloha shirt has a
placket and a button band as options for the front. I prefer multiple size
patterns as you can do a lot of alterations before you cut. The duffle coat
is a mens medium size but it's a start.
>
> So if you want these, please let me know where to mail them to.--Irene
>

I just found some duffle coats on line. Nah, that's not the style I'm
looking for. I'm looking for a mandarin style jacket, but can't find any
patterns. Dang nab it.

Thanks for your offer to help on this though. I appreciate it.

Dwight

[[email protected]]

Re: Fitting, sewing, patterns, and useful stuff

(duh=A0who)
<generous snipping>
From what I saw it was not what I wanted.
---
Irene offers:
<<Now that I have had a chance to look, I found two patterns: a mens
aloha
<snip>
So if you want these, please let me know where to mail them to.--Irene
---
<I just found some duffle coats on line. Nah, that's not the style
I'm looking for. I'm looking for a mandarin style jacket, but can't find
any patterns. Dang nab it. <snip>
Dwight
---
Ouch! (To snipped insults).
OK, here's my take:
#1) You prolly won't find exactly what you are looking for, Dwight.
#2) Never turn down a generous offer of free menswear patterns. You may
not need them now, but they might be have just the detail you need on
down your sewing road. Which leads to:
#3) To get the design and details you want, you'll often find you have
to cannibalize parts from other patterns. If you learn how to draft your
own patterns, you might still have occasions where you will want to
combine various pattern pieces. Until then, it helps to look at patterns
differently, as if they were a combination of often-interchangeable
parts.
Have I missed the part of this thread where you mentioned looking at
Burda and Quick Sew pattern books? I think Q.Sew has the most menswear
patterns of any of the books.
Along those lines, I went foraging through one of last years pattern
books (don't know if these patterns are still listed, but it's an
example, OK?) looking for a mandarin style collar.
Q. Sew: #2258 has a stand-up collar, which could be converted to a
taller mandarin style.
McCall: Palmer & Pletsch, #9579.
Costumes, the Bane of your sewing existence: Simplicity, # 7274, view
C--a Civil War uniform with a mandarin style collar. Front closure
would have to be adjusted, width added to jacket body.
S # 8363, view B front opening jacket with a mandarin style collar:
forget the fact that it is a costume. Go with me on this.
Squint at this one--imagine if the shaped bodice front pieces of the
pattern were taped together, thus eliminating the extra cutting/shaping
lines (called princess lines when they are on women's wear), then the
bodice was lengthened and widened, adding the width and ease that you
desire. Figure these amounts from a pattern you have already used, or a
fav. shirt. or adapt the collar to the coat pattern.
Putting disparate pattern pieces together is an adventure, and, I
think, a learning exercise, one which most of us have done at some time
in our sewing lives. HTH.
Cea

[duh who]

Thanks for your offer to help on this though. I appreciate it.

Dwight---
Ouch! (To snipped insults).
OK, here's my take:

#2) Never turn down a generous offer of free menswear patterns. You may
not need them now, but they might be have just the detail you need on
down your sewing road. Which leads to:

If it is not to my needs, I don't want the person to go to all that trouble
to send it to me, and then have someone else pop up who needed just what
they had, but its gone now.

So I express a lot of appreciation for the kind offer, but decline. The
pattern in question, or at least examples of it that I saw on the net, were
too far off from what I was trying to do.


<<<<#3) To get the design and details you want, you'll often find you have
to cannibalize parts from other patterns. If you learn how to draft your
own patterns, you might still have occasions where you will want to
combine various pattern pieces. Until then, it helps to look at patterns
differently, as if they were a combination of often-interchangeable
parts.
Have I missed the part of this thread where you mentioned looking at
Burda and Quick Sew pattern books? I think Q.Sew has the most menswear
patterns of any of the books.>>>>

KwikSew's online catalogue has been down for probably the last week that
I've been trying to get on there.


<<< Along those lines, I went foraging through one of last years pattern
books (don't know if these patterns are still listed, but it's an
example, OK?) looking for a mandarin style collar.
Q. Sew: #2258 has a stand-up collar, which could be converted to a
taller mandarin style.
McCall: Palmer & Pletsch, #9579.
Costumes, the Bane of your sewing existence: Simplicity, # 7274, view
C--a Civil War uniform with a mandarin style collar. Front closure
would have to be adjusted, width added to jacket body.
S # 8363, view B front opening jacket with a mandarin style collar:
forget the fact that it is a costume. Go with me on this.
Squint at this one--imagine if the shaped bodice front pieces of the
pattern were taped together, thus eliminating the extra cutting/shaping
lines (called princess lines when they are on women's wear), then the
bodice was lengthened and widened, adding the width and ease that you
desire. Figure these amounts from a pattern you have already used, or a
fav. shirt. or adapt the collar to the coat pattern.
Putting disparate pattern pieces together is an adventure, and, I
think, a learning exercise, one which most of us have done at some time
in our sewing lives. HTH. >>>

I don't have enough confidence or experience needed to do the type of
swapping you talk about. To me, I'd be afraid I'd end up getting the
equivalent of putting the wrong size sleeves to a different armscye. I know
we're not talking about sleeves here, but that kind of not so evident
mismatches that might not show up for me until I put the final product on.

I will save you post here, though, for future reference.

Dwight

[Jenn Ridley]

"duh who" > wrote:

>KwikSew's online catalogue has been down for probably the last week that
>I've been trying to get on there.

www.kwiksew.com works just fine for me. Don't try the thumbnail
viewer....it's not nearly as good as the 'original' version.

You could also use www.sewingpatterns.com to look at KwikSew patterns.

jenn
--
Jenn Ridley

[duh who]

"Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
...
> "duh who" > wrote:
>
> >KwikSew's online catalogue has been down for probably the last week that
> >I've been trying to get on there.
>
> www.kwiksew.com works just fine for me. Don't try the thumbnail
> viewer....it's not nearly as good as the 'original' version.

It is dead in the water for me. I'm not even getting the main page now.

Dwight

[Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply]

duh who wrote:

> I don't have enough confidence or experience needed to do the type of
> swapping you talk about. To me, I'd be afraid I'd end up getting
> the equivalent of putting the wrong size sleeves to a different
> armscye. I know we're not talking about sleeves here, but that kind
> of not so evident mismatches that might not show up for me until I
> put the final product on.

Look further down the road, hon. If you don't close your mind to that
being a possibility, it will happen, and sooner than you think.
--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

[Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply]

duh who wrote:
>
> From what I saw it was not what I wanted.

(whispering so nobody rushes there ahead of you) Somebody just
recommended a book by Adele Margolis. When I went to Ebay and searched
on her name to see if someone listed it there (they have it, but I think
that $70 is highway robbery so I won't buy it at that price) I also saw
a book by her on tailoring, and there were a number of copies that were
under $10. Sounds like it might be a valuable reference for you if the
author is so highly recommended.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

[Mike Behrent]

Dwight, I think your ISP might be having a routing problem. It happens. You
can try typing in the URL for Kwik-Sew manually. If that works and your
bookmark doesn't then your bookmark is just corrupted. It happens.
Mike in Wisconsin

> > www.kwiksew.com works just fine for me. Don't try the thumbnail
> > viewer....it's not nearly as good as the 'original' version.
>
> It is dead in the water for me. I'm not even getting the main page now.
>
> Dwight
>
>

[Irene]

I guess I neglected to say--

I have never in 30 years of sewing used just ONE pattern to make a
garment. Either I adapted the instructions from another source
(usually a book), or I used the instructions and adapted the pieces
(usually changing the collar or sleeves).

I have to say that I got a lot of practice at the process that Janet
Arnold describes in her costume books (especially the
medieval/renaissance one). People have been making patterns for
clothes that same way for millenia for one obvious reason: EVERY BODY
IS DIFFERENT! EVERY BODY CHANGES!

Oh, yeah, one more: THE FIT CHANGES WITH THE CLOTH!!!

OK, now I'm going to stay out of online teaching sessions. I am a
firm believer in the hands-on, learn-it-right-from a skilled-teacher,
adult-education-class- is-wonderful, look-at-the-actual-process, and
I'm going to take my own advice.

--Irene

wrote in message >...
> Re: Fitting, sewing, patterns, and useful stuff
>
> (duh who)
> <generous snipping>
> ---
> <I just found some duffle coats on line. Nah, that's not the style
> I'm looking for. I'm looking for a mandarin style jacket, but can't find
> any patterns. Dang nab it. <snip>
> Dwight
> ---
> Ouch! (To snipped insults).
> down your sewing road. Which leads to:
> #3) To get the design and details you want, you'll often find you have
> to cannibalize parts from other patterns. If you learn how to draft your

[duh who]

"Mike Behrent" > wrote in message
...
> Dwight, I think your ISP might be having a routing problem. It happens.
You
> can try typing in the URL for Kwik-Sew manually. If that works and your
> bookmark doesn't then your bookmark is just corrupted. It happens.
> Mike in Wisconsin
>
> > > www.kwiksew.com works just fine for me. Don't try the thumbnail
> > > viewer....it's not nearly as good as the 'original' version.
> >
> > It is dead in the water for me. I'm not even getting the main page now.

This time I could get the main page, but when I clicked on the online
catalogue, which translates to this link:

http://www.kwiksew.com/Cold_Fusion/catalog/Frame.cfm

then it said page not found.

Same thing I've been getting.

[Celia Mitschelen]

> I just found some duffle coats on line. Nah, that's not the style I'm
> looking for. I'm looking for a mandarin style jacket, but can't find any
> patterns. Dang nab it.
>
> Thanks for your offer to help on this though. I appreciate it.
> Dwight

In the late 60's I made my son a Nehru jacket to take to college. They had
the stand-up collar and if you can find one you may like it as well as the
Mandarin style. It is more fitted.

Celia

[duh who]

"Celia Mitschelen" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
>
> > I just found some duffle coats on line. Nah, that's not the style I'm
> > looking for. I'm looking for a mandarin style jacket, but can't find
any
> > patterns. Dang nab it.
> >
> > Thanks for your offer to help on this though. I appreciate it.
> > Dwight
>
> In the late 60's I made my son a Nehru jacket to take to college.

You are one cool mom!


>They had
> the stand-up collar and if you can find one you may like it as well as the
> Mandarin style. It is more fitted.

These days, seems like the mandarin jackets are more in vogue. I did find a
women's mandarin pattern today, but I'm going to see what this Wild Ginger
software does for me first.

[Celia Mitschelen]

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" > wrote in
message ...
> duh who wrote:
> >
> > From what I saw it was not what I wanted.
>
> (whispering so nobody rushes there ahead of you) Somebody just
> recommended a book by Adele Margolis. When I went to Ebay and searched
> on her name to see if someone listed it there (they have it, but I think
> that $70 is highway robbery so I won't buy it at that price) I also saw
> a book by her on tailoring, and there were a number of copies that were
> under $10. Sounds like it might be a valuable reference for you if the
> author is so highly recommended.
>
Forget Ebay, try the used books sites. I looked on http://www.abebooks for
the Margolis book that was recommended a few days ago and found them
starting at $2. Of course there is still shipping but you have that on Ebay
as well. Book condition is generally described and I have been amazed at the
quality of the books I get from some of these sites.

Celia

[Emily]

I order some from www.Halfpricebooks.com, although there are 2-3 stores
locally, they do not offer all the selections that are online.
Emily

[Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply]

Celia Mitschelen wrote:
>
> Forget Ebay, try the used books sites. I looked on http://www.abebooks for

Whoops, I meant half.com and my fingers typed something different.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

[TerriLee in WA]

duh who wrote:
>
> Thanks for your offer to help on this though. I appreciate it.
>
> Dwight---
^^^^^^^
{trimmed with pinking shears}
^^^^^^^
>Cea wrote:
> <<<<#3) To get the design and details you want, you'll often find you have
> to cannibalize parts from other patterns. If you learn how to draft your
> own patterns, you might still have occasions where you will want to
> combine various pattern pieces. Until then, it helps to look at patterns
> differently, as if they were a combination of often-interchangeable
> parts.
> Have I missed the part of this thread where you mentioned looking at
> Burda and Quick Sew pattern books? I think Q.Sew has the most menswear
> patterns of any of the books.>>>>
>
> KwikSew's online catalogue has been down for probably the last week that
> I've been trying to get on there.
>
> <<< Along those lines, I went foraging through one of last years pattern
> books (don't know if these patterns are still listed, but it's an
> example, OK?) looking for a mandarin style collar.
> Q. Sew: #2258 has a stand-up collar, which could be converted to a
> taller mandarin style.
> McCall: Palmer & Pletsch, #9579.
> Costumes, the Bane of your sewing existence: Simplicity, # 7274, view
> C--a Civil War uniform with a mandarin style collar. Front closure
> would have to be adjusted, width added to jacket body.
> S # 8363, view B front opening jacket with a mandarin style collar:
> forget the fact that it is a costume. Go with me on this.
> Squint at this one--imagine if the shaped bodice front pieces of the
> pattern were taped together, thus eliminating the extra cutting/shaping
> lines (called princess lines when they are on women's wear), then the
> bodice was lengthened and widened, adding the width and ease that you
> desire. Figure these amounts from a pattern you have already used, or a
> fav. shirt. or adapt the collar to the coat pattern.
> Putting disparate pattern pieces together is an adventure, and, I
> think, a learning exercise, one which most of us have done at some time
> in our sewing lives. HTH. >>>
>
>Dwight--- wrote:
> I don't have enough confidence or experience needed to do the type of
> swapping you talk about. To me, I'd be afraid I'd end up getting the
> equivalent of putting the wrong size sleeves to a different armscye. I know
> we're not talking about sleeves here, but that kind of not so evident
> mismatches that might not show up for me until I put the final product on.
>
> I will save you post here, though, for future reference.
>
> Dwight

I used to make all my DH's shirts when he wore the western-cut ones
years ago. He's always had a barrel chest, but was much skinnier at the
waist. I learned to do shaping and fitting darts by practicing on him.
LOL My favorite trick for swapping collars between patterns is to stand
my sewing tape measure on edge, along the seamline of the collar piece.
Write the measurment down. Then pin or tape all the neckline pattern
pieces together, just like they would be sewn, matching dots, etc.
Measure the neckline seamline the same way, i.e., tape measure on edge.
Then adjust either the collar or the neckline, depending on what the
numbers tell you. HTH
--
TerriLee Bishop in WA (state) USA
(opinions are wholly owned by the author and don't represent anything)
;-)
remove "invalid" to reply

[[email protected]]

Re: Fitting, sewing, patterns, and useful stuff

(TerriLee=A0in=A0WA)
Dwight sez:
I don't have enough confidence or experience needed to do the type of
swapping you talk about. To me, I'd be afraid I'd end up getting the
equivalent of putting the wrong size sleeves to a different armscye. I
know we're not talking about sleeves here, but that kind of not so
evident mismatches that might not show up for me until I put the final
product on.
I will save you post here, though, for future reference.
Dwight
hereupon TerriLee replies reasonably:
I used to make all my DH's shirts when he wore the western-cut ones
years ago. He's always had a barrel chest, but was much skinnier at the
waist. I learned to do shaping and fitting darts by practicing on him.
LOL My favorite trick for swapping collars between patterns is to stand
my sewing tape measure on edge, along the seamline of the collar piece.
Write the measurment down. Then pin or tape all the neckline pattern
pieces together, just like they would be sewn, matching dots, etc.
Measure the neckline seamline the same way, i.e., tape measure on edge.
Then adjust either the collar or the neckline, depending on what the
numbers tell you. HTH
---
A good explanation of how-to swap pattern parts, TeriLee, and easy,
even for a sewer who isn't very adventurous. Dwight sounds much more
adventurous, so this should be a walk in the park, should he decide to
try it.
If you don't have pattern drafting skills, and the style you want is
not in the pattern books, this is the _only_ way I know of to get what
you want.
Well, the only way, other than finding a ready-made, and tracing a
pattern off of the finished garment. (Reference Tracy Benussen's
excellent books on that subject.)
Cea