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How much 14K gold will a 1/4 ounce of 24K gold yield?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 20th 03, 02:02 AM
Jeff S.
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Default How much 14K gold will a 1/4 ounce of 24K gold yield?

I am going to have a jeweller custom make a 14k gold signet ring for me
soon. The gold he'll be using will be supplied by me in the form of
either one or two 1/4 oz., 24 karat solid gold Kuggerand coins. Of
course what he'll do is make a wax model, weight it, and then tell me
how much 24 K gold he's going to need for the ring, taking into account
that he'll be adding metals to it to bring it down to 14 karats. What I
need to know, to make sure I'm not getting ripped off, is how many
ounces (or grams or pennyweight) of 14 K gold will a 24 K ounce of gold
yield? In other words, if he hypothetically says the ring will weigh
1/8 ounce at 14 K, then how much 24 K gold will he need to make the
ring?

Can it be stated that 1 ounce of 24 K gold will yield X ounces of 14 K
gold?

While I do my best to deal with my IP's newsgroup service, on occasion
I do not get to check the groups to see replies to my postings for the
mere nanosecond they're actually left up on the server. So please also
send an e mail copy of your answer to me at .
Remove the X's before sending.

Thanks much,

Jeff
Ads
  #2  
Old October 20th 03, 02:55 AM
pochino
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Default

In article ,
Jeff S. wrote:
... In other words, if he hypothetically says the ring will weigh 1/8
ounce at 14 K, then how much 24 K gold will he need to make the ring?
Can it be stated that 1 ounce of 24 K gold will yield X ounces of 14 K
gold?


28.35 grams (1oz) of 24 K gold will yield 48.6 grams (1.714oz) of 14K.


28.35 grams (1oz) 24k gold (28.35/14x24)
20.25 grams remainder (copper and silver)
-----------
=48.6 grams 14k gold

The 20.25 grams remainder could be:
10.13 grams copper
10.13 grams silver (1:1 ratio)
-----
=20.25

13.50 grams copper
6.75 grams silver (2:1 ratio)
-----
=20.25

6.75 grams copper
13.50 grams silver (1:2 ratio)
-----
=20.25

or other ratios ... like 6:1 (red gold)

Brian

--
Brian Adam
Auckland NEW ZEALAND
  #3  
Old October 20th 03, 03:32 AM
Peter W. Rowe
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:02:34 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Jeff S. "
wrote:

I am going to have a jeweller custom make a 14k gold signet ring for me
soon. The gold he'll be using will be supplied by me in the form of
either one or two 1/4 oz., 24 karat solid gold Kuggerand coins.


While it doesn't change the math as given by Brian Adam, it's worth noting that
Kruggerands are NOT 24 K gold. They have a bit of copper in them. Your
goldsmith will need to take that into account in formulating the alloy to mix
with the Kruggerands, in order to get the right color, and the right karat. A
quarter ounce Kruggerand contains a quarter ounce of fine gold, but weighs a
little more than a quarter ounce, due to the added copper.

Of
course what he'll do is make a wax model, weight it, and then tell me
how much 24 K gold he's going to need for the ring, taking into account
that he'll be adding metals to it to bring it down to 14 karats.


Another thing to take into account is that for most methods of cusom making a
ring, you need more gold than will end up in the ring. That wax model gets
attached to a wax sprue rod, and thence to a sprue button former. During
casting, it's important to the quality of the casting that there is extra metal
in that button, and in the sprue rod, to allow the cooling/shrinking gold in the
mold cavity to draw upon the still molten reservoir formed by that button. It
is not uncommon to allow around a third of an ounce of metal, or more, for the
sprue and button.

Also, note that after casting, some addtional metal will be lost in filing,
sanding, and polishing the casting to it's finished form. If the wax model is
very accurate, it might not need to be that much, but it will still be
measurable. And if the model is less accurate, then more will need to be
removed to clean up the casting. While, if you supply enough for the sprue and
button too, you can expect to get those extra portions of metal back, don't
expect the weights to exactly match, as you probably won't get back the filings,
grindings, polishings, etc. These usually get mixed with other previous such
waste metals, in the machinery used to polish, or on the workbench. While you
might ask for as much of the coarser filings back as possible, it's a bunch of
extra work for the goldsmith to do so, and it would be reasonable for him to
charge you extra for that service. Chances are, the charge for the time needed
to do that may exceed the values of the filings and grindings recovered.

Even if the goldsmith is fabricating the band, such as might be done with a
plain wedding band made from a strip of metal bent around and soldered or
welded, even then you loose some metal, as the blank has to be filed, sanded,
etc, in the same way, and often looses a bit more than a casting would, but then
you don't need so much in the sprue and button.

What I
need to know, to make sure I'm not getting ripped off


You DO realize, don't you, that you've come to a newsgroup frequented by a whole
lot of jewelers, and implied that you don't trust us to not rip you off.
Frankly, *sir*, I expect that more than a few of us might be a bit offended, if
also a bit resigned to the attitude, as some folks seem to feel that way about
jewelers. But you should understand that the vast majority of us, and goldsmith
in general, work very hard to give our customers the best value, and to bend
over backwards to be totally honest. There are VERY few bad apples in the
bunch. Most of the reputation that some jewelers seem to have with some overly
suspicious types (apparently you are one such) seems to be earned by the efforts
of some often poorly trained retail jewelry salespeople, who'll sometimes say
just about anything to make the sale. You find such most commonly as the part
timers working in the mall stores, and often, it's not deliberate deception, but
just ignorance. Those of us sitting at the workbench actually making the
stuff, are rather more likely to know what we're doing, and be proud enough of
it not to endager our business and reputation by being dishonest.

For my part, I'd recommend skipping all this checking up, and instead, finding a
jeweler you trust to be fair with you. I know more than a few jewelers who,
faced with a customer with your apparent attitude, would refuse to bother doing
business with you, or who'd charge you extra for the fuss and bother of dealing
with all that weighing and verification of the price. I suspect that your
approach, rather than saving you money, is likely to cost you more, and fairly
so, for the extra effort the smith will have to do through in making your piece
keeping your metal seperate, as well as, frankly, the extra emotional strain of
dealing with a customer one knows is a suspicious person, sure that he's maybe
being cheated.

Add to this the fact that, if you expect to supply the metal, you'll need to
supply substantially more than will end up in the ring, and you could be paying
a good deal more than if you just let the goldsmith supply the metal, charging
you just for what is actually used. Now, if perhaps you have a less rigid
arrangement, perhaps with a small time smith who doesn't have a lot of his own
gold available, then supplying enough for the ring, with the understanding that
it will be mixed with his own metal to provide the extra needed for the process,
and that this way you'd perhaps not have to pay markups on the metal, well,
maybe that would work. But again, it would work only if you decide to trust
the jeweler, and know that he's not out to cheat you.

Please undestand, as well, that to be blunt, gold is cheap. yes, I mean that.
Compared to the labor costs in making jewelry the cost of the gold in custom
work is often less than the cost of the time that goes into the job. That, and
the costs of doing business, which NEEDS to include markups on materials
supplied, overhead costs of running the workshop, and all the rest. If you
think your goldsmith is spending no money, and needing no wages, to just wait
until you come in, and can then charge you just a nominal fee to use your gold
to make a ring, you're dreaming. People just don't stay in business that way,
even the part time artists working from their basement shop on weekends. If you
let the goldsmith supply the needed materials, and charge you a proper price,
you'll end up getting a better value in the long run. The fellow won't feel
pressured to be sure he's not spending a dime too much, which means, among
other things, that he won't skimp on the details and time needed to do the job
right. You can either pay a fair price for a good quality job done to your, and
the goldsmiths satisfaction, or you can "nickle and dime" the guy down in
price, attempting to save money by supplying your own metal, and otherwise being
as budget consious as possible, and you'll still get your ring. But it's quite
possible it won't be as good a ring.

Your choice.

, is how many
ounces (or grams or pennyweight) of 14 K gold will a 24 K ounce of gold
yield? In other words, if he hypothetically says the ring will weigh
1/8 ounce at 14 K, then how much 24 K gold will he need to make the
ring?


The basic math is simple. 14K gold is 14 parts gold, to 10 parts other metals.
A few moments with a pocket calculator will do the work for you. A given weight
of 14K gold contains 14/24 ths gold, or 58.3 percent gold


Can it be stated that 1 ounce of 24 K gold will yield X ounces of 14 K
gold?


Yes, if the karat is mixed exactly. Depending on where you live, and legal
standards for karat, some slight variations may exist. In the U.S., gold can be
slightly under kart, but not by much. In the U.K., it cannot be at all under
karat, and it's the practice of many smiths to err on the generous side, just a
little, to be sure the gold is up to standard. There, one often finds 14K to be
58.5%, instead of 58.3%, for example.

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe

  #4  
Old October 20th 03, 08:30 AM
NE333RO
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Default

... In other words, if he hypothetically says the ring will weigh 1/8
ounce at 14 K, then how much 24 K gold will he need to make the ring?


28.35 grams (1oz) of 24 K gold will yield 48.6 grams (1.714oz) of 14K.


Don't forget the sprue.
  #5  
Old October 20th 03, 08:30 AM
pochino
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Default

In article ,
Peter W. Rowe pwrowe@ixDOTnetcomDOTcom wrote:
[...] Compared to the labor costs in making jewelry the cost of the gold
in custom work is often less than the cost of the time that goes into the
job. That, and the costs of doing business, which NEEDS to include
markups on materials supplied, overhead costs of running the workshop,
and all the rest. If you think your goldsmith is spending no money, and
needing no wages, to just wait until you come in, and can then charge you
just a nominal fee to use your gold to make a ring, you're dreaming.


Well said, Peitro.

People just don't stay in business that way, even the part time artists
working from their basement shop on weekends. If you let the goldsmith
supply the needed materials, and charge you a proper price, you'll end
up getting a better value in the long run.


I tend to agree. I'd imagine that the Kuggerand coins are probably worth
more as coins than as a gold source for jewellery.

Brian
  #6  
Old October 20th 03, 04:15 PM
Chris Hackett
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I have always known the Krugerrand to be 22ct gold. It contains 1 troy oz
(31.1035 grams) of pure gold. The total weight of a Krugerrand is 33.9303
grams or 1.0909 Troy oz. the balance being copper. It is the same ct content
of the British sovereign (22ct) so whether the sovereign had an influence on
the ct content of the Krugerrand I don't know. The Krugerrand is a
relatively new coin; it was introduced in 1967 to help the South Africans to
market their huge stores of bullion.

Chris


  #7  
Old October 20th 03, 04:15 PM
chunk
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Posts: n/a
Default

Try google groups to read the newsgroup if you are having trouble with the
ISP. The messages stay there forever.

Chunk

"Jeff S. " wrote in message
...
I am going to have a jeweller custom make a 14k gold signet ring for me
soon. The gold he'll be using will be supplied by me in the form of
either one or two 1/4 oz., 24 karat solid gold Kuggerand coins. Of
course what he'll do is make a wax model, weight it, and then tell me
how much 24 K gold he's going to need for the ring, taking into account
that he'll be adding metals to it to bring it down to 14 karats. What I
need to know, to make sure I'm not getting ripped off, is how many
ounces (or grams or pennyweight) of 14 K gold will a 24 K ounce of gold
yield? In other words, if he hypothetically says the ring will weigh
1/8 ounce at 14 K, then how much 24 K gold will he need to make the
ring?

Can it be stated that 1 ounce of 24 K gold will yield X ounces of 14 K
gold?

While I do my best to deal with my IP's newsgroup service, on occasion
I do not get to check the groups to see replies to my postings for the
mere nanosecond they're actually left up on the server. So please also
send an e mail copy of your answer to me at .
Remove the X's before sending.

Thanks much,

Jeff



  #8  
Old October 22nd 03, 02:25 AM
pochino
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Chris Hackett wrote:

I have always known the Krugerrand to be 22ct gold. It contains 1 troy oz
(31.1035 grams) of pure gold. The total weight of a Krugerrand is 33.9303
grams or 1.0909 Troy oz. the balance being copper.


Okay so:

31.1035 grams of 24K gold will yield:

31.10 g Au
11.11 g Cu
11.11 g Ag
-----------
53.32 g 14k gold alloy (1:1 Cu:Ag ratio)

Since the Krugerrand has [33.9303-31.1035=] 2.8268 grams Cu in it, then
subtract that from the mix:

33.93 g Krugerrand
8.28 g Cu
11.11 g Ag
-----------
53.32 g 14k gold alloy (1:1 Cu:Ag ratio)


Brian

--
Brian Adam
Auckland NEW ZEALAND
  #9  
Old October 22nd 03, 04:11 PM
Chris Hackett
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Default

Hi Brian,
My reply was for factual reasons only. I tagged it on to your post because
when talking about a Krugerrand coin it is in Troy oz not avoirdupois. I
know my ratios very well I have been alloying my own metal for over 30
years. My main points were really that a Krugerrand is 22ct gold and the
weights are based on the Troy oz whether it is 0.1, 0.25, 0.50 or1.00 Troy
oz coin.

Chris





  #10  
Old October 23rd 03, 02:14 AM
pochino
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Default

In article ,
Chris Hackett wrote:
Hi Brian,
My reply was for factual reasons only. I tagged it on to your post because
when talking about a Krugerrand coin it is in Troy oz not avoirdupois. I
know my ratios very well I have been alloying my own metal for over 30
years. My main points were really that a Krugerrand is 22ct gold and the
weights are based on the Troy oz whether it is 0.1, 0.25, 0.50 or1.00 Troy
oz coin.


Thanks Chris,

Your info was most useful. My sums will still be okay as I based them on
your "31.1035 grams of pure gold. The total weight of a Krugerrand is
33.9303 grams ...".

Bri

--
Brian Adam
Auckland NEW ZEALAND
www.adam.co.nz
 




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