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#31
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Thanks, Ragmop, for finding all those links. I knew I had seen some articles
on the connection between prayer and healing and was going to do a search, but I had to leave for a meeting and didn't have time. You found some good ones! Louise in Iowa " Ellison" wrote in message ... Howdy! I neither know for a fact nor worry about whether it's scientifically proved that prayer increases healing. However, there are some reputable groups researching this issue: http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/opa/news/may03/prayer.htm http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/...ain68441.shtml http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Downt...emotehealing_f eature.html http://www.healingtherapies.info/prayer_and_healing.htm http://www.integral-inquiry.com/docs/649/empirical.pdf http://www.wholistichealingresearch....ch/Studies.htm http://spot.colorado.edu/~vstenger/RelSci/4.Dossey and so on, and so on. As a scientist yourself, you know that some people will study anything. In this case, it's more than just vague theory and opinion. Many of these studies include clinical tests, analyzing data, testing, researching, and studying the results. As you yourself have stated many time that you're not "a believer" in this area. I accept that. g However, for those who are, keep up the good work. Often it's Faith that produces Action. ;-) Ragmop/Sandy--I'm a little addicted to on-line search engines VBG "Dr. Quilter" wrote in message ... I am sorry, but I have to say something about this. I have heard of this, and I'd really like to know if there was a statistical significance between the improvment of people that were prayed for and those what were not. I truly don't believe in this!!! BTW, I think that if we want to help other people, actions are much more effective! Nell Reynolds wrote: Three or four years ago I read about some big research group that decided to research the efficacy of prayers. Yeah, right, I thought. But this research group asked people and groups all over the world to pray to their own god(s) in their own way to help various people. They enlisted Christian preachers of all denominations to ask for prayers from the pulpit, nuns and monks from various convents and monasteries, Buddhist temples, Muslim religious leaders, rabbis, and people from religions I had never heard of. The article said they conducted this in the standard double-blind method, different religions for various people not of their faith and in their faith, and a control group that got no prayer at all. No names were included, just requests for "a person (no gender or age) in (location) suffering from (affliction)." In every case, from every source of prayer, the target of the prayers reported improvement that was confirmed by diagnosis. Prayer does help. Nell in Austin -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens |
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Anytime Teresa! I believe in, what I believe and no one can change that but
me. I've had too many people in my day to try and force their beliefs on me. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. lol Many have tried and none succeeded. Shelly "Teresa in Colorado" wrote in message nk.net... The question of the day is - and this is probably one that none of us can answer - does the prayer increase the patients chances of survival because of divine intervention or just because the patient BELIEVES that he has a better chance of survival? We all have different beliefs on this one (and I'd be happy to compare notes in heaven later on, hopefully - I have no guarantees that I won't be going in the other direction, but I'm trying to be good grin) and I am quite willing to listen to everyone's beliefs - the world would be BORING if we all believed the same thing!!!! As long as beliefs are not dictated to me, I'll listen. I believe that God is a busy being - very busy (hopefully creating new worlds and beings for us to visit someday) - and doesn't always give his full attention to the needs of every single individual. Like the song says "Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers." I think that he intervenes from time to time (Way to go Mo!), but for the most part, we are on our own. I also believe that our minds are much more powerful than we give them credit for and are capable of more than we do in a normal day. Believing that we will survive is a powerful medicine. Never underestimate yourself! Like I said, I know that my beliefs won't be shared by everyone and I don't expect them to be - I respect your beliefs too! Thanks, Shelly and others, for the chance to THINK about something - thinking is good. -- Teresa in Colorado -- "Shelly" glass angel at charter dot net wrote in message ... The government has funded studies, as well as many others. Doctors from Johns Hopkin have participated in studies, just to name one. This is nothing new on the medical front. I know this has been going on since at least the early 80's. We had a doctor here that would not operate without he prayed for the patient first and for the outcome of the surgery and usually had the patient pray with him. He was a very good doctor. I am not a religious person but will pray for anyone that asks. If nothing else, it sure can't hurt. Neither person, the one doing the praying, or the one being prayed for. It may only be that is has a placebo affect, if that's so, if it works, why not use it. It's very cheap.........FREE, and makes many people feel good! Here are just a few of the links I found on just one search. Shelly http://www.mercola.com/2000/nov/19/prayer_health.htm http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msciprayer.html http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/...5/us/us.1.html http://www.awesomepower.net/prayerstudies.htm http://www.detnews.com/2000/religion...5/c01-9322.htm http://www.holistic-online.com/Praye...ayer_proof.htm "Dr. Quilter" wrote in message ... Who conducted these studies? I don't have any problem with you personally Shelly, and no reason not to believe what you are saying, but just because you tell me it is a proven fact doesn't mean I have to automatically take it as such, do you agree? I am just very skeptical. I am sure that people that pray want to believe that they are doing something good for the person they are praying for, but I'd like to see some evidence, not just statements like that. Shelly wrote: It's a proven fact! Studies have shown that if you pray before surgery, healing time is much faster and you have a better turn out altogether with the surgery and recovery. Shelly "Dr. Quilter" wrote in message ... I am sorry, but I have to say something about this. I have heard of this, and I'd really like to know if there was a statistical significance between the improvment of people that were prayed for and those what were not. I truly don't believe in this!!! BTW, I think that if we want to help other people, actions are much more effective! Nell Reynolds wrote: Three or four years ago I read about some big research group that decided to research the efficacy of prayers. Yeah, right, I thought. But this research group asked people and groups all over the world to pray to their own god(s) in their own way to help various people. They enlisted Christian preachers of all denominations to ask for prayers from the pulpit, nuns and monks from various convents and monasteries, Buddhist temples, Muslim religious leaders, rabbis, and people from religions I had never heard of. The article said they conducted this in the standard double-blind method, different religions for various people not of their faith and in their faith, and a control group that got no prayer at all. No names were included, just requests for "a person (no gender or age) in (location) suffering from (affliction)." In every case, from every source of prayer, the target of the prayers reported improvement that was confirmed by diagnosis. Prayer does help. Nell in Austin " Ellison" wrote in message ... Howdy! Welcome home, RZ! SHE'S BAAACK!! Roberta & I "did" Fort Worth lightly the other day, finished w/ a glass of cold tea and a lonnnnng talk. Met Roberta's lovely older daughter; she does quilt shops, too. g Now let's talk Roberta into Houston 20-0-4 ! Ragmop/Sandy--leaving the charming thoughts from the original post "Roberta Zollner" wrote in message ... Glad you're mending! No need to thank us, really. Remember we're a network by our own volition. What affects you affects me, both the good stuff and the bad. And that quote-I-can't-remember about how shared joy multiplies, while shared trouble reduces? It's perfectly true. We bask in the light of our friends, even the cyber-light. I know for a fact that it's not even necessary to tell you my troubles to feel a calming presence. Reading the ng every day keeps all of you in my thoughts, just as I am sure to be in all of yours. Thanks! Roberta in D "Diana Curtis" wrote in message et... Im going to do a quick explanation with no gory details about my operation so everyone knows that I didnt get sent through a wringer. I had the type of gall bladder removal they used to do, and still do sometimes, instead of the easier to recover from laparoscopic type they prefer to do. So, instead of a set of tiny cuts I have a larger one, stapled shut, and two drain sites. The other part of the operation was a strange one where they ran a camera and other gizmos to the site of the stones via the mouth and got some out of the ducts. The reason my gall bladder needed this more invasive set of procedures was simply that there were so many stones and because they were large. Coctail onion size they said. While in the hospital I thought about what might and could happen while in surgery. I guess its inevitable to face ones own mortality, especially when we know we would leave precious little ones behind, but when I read the messages Mike printed and brought in from all of you I realized two things. Many of you had lived through these procedures and are happy for having done so. Second, I was not going to entertain the notion of leaving. Dying was not an option. I learned too that love can float around me and cradle me in times of fear. I felt very little. I dont know, or care what diety or enti ty you sent your prayers towards. I still feel them. They help me heal, because a body cant help but heal better when it feels happy, valued and loved. hmm...people have accused me of being effusive. Ill add maudlin to that list. Its your own problem if it seems over the top. In fact.. let me know if its over the top and Ill privately email you with MORE! buwahahahahahaha!!! hey, I dont LIKE whats happened to me... it hurts, but dang, you guys know how to do that love thing so nicely. My individual thanks will come as I have time and energy. I have a lot of them to do. I will do them with joy. Its so odd to feel so wonderfully happy. my love to you Diana I should probably let this sit overnight to edit later when Im not so high.. but.. i dont know.. is there a reason why I should not be this open with my feelings? http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44 -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/03 -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/03 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/03 |
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That's interesting Teresa. I often think about that song. I just today
commented about the little leaguers world series kids praying to win. I told DD God is a lot too busy to fix little league games. Now thanking God for getting you there but prayer/begging can seem awful petty sometimes. I think we need to pray for more help from God to get through what he intends us to go through than to change his plans to our favor. Being raised Quaker then Catholic by parents who had beliefs are different than almost anyone might be an excuse for my wacky thinking. This can be a touchy subject but it is interesting to hear other folks beliefs. Taria Teresa in Colorado wrote: The question of the day is - and this is probably one that none of us can answer - does the prayer increase the patients chances of survival because of divine intervention or just because the patient BELIEVES that he has a better chance of survival? We all have different beliefs on this one (and I'd be happy to compare notes in heaven later on, hopefully - I have no guarantees that I won't be going in the other direction, but I'm trying to be good grin) and I am quite willing to listen to everyone's beliefs - the world would be BORING if we all believed the same thing!!!! As long as beliefs are not dictated to me, I'll listen. I believe that God is a busy being - very busy (hopefully creating new worlds and beings for us to visit someday) - and doesn't always give his full attention to the needs of every single individual. Like the song says "Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers." I think that he intervenes from time to time (Way to go Mo!), but for the most part, we are on our own. I also believe that our minds are much more powerful than we give them credit for and are capable of more than we do in a normal day. Believing that we will survive is a powerful medicine. Never underestimate yourself! Like I said, I know that my beliefs won't be shared by everyone and I don't expect them to be - I respect your beliefs too! Thanks, Shelly and others, for the chance to THINK about something - thinking is good. -- Teresa in Colorado -- "Shelly" glass angel at charter dot net wrote in message ... The government has funded studies, as well as many others. Doctors from Johns Hopkin have participated in studies, just to name one. This is nothing new on the medical front. I know this has been going on since at least the early 80's. We had a doctor here that would not operate without he prayed for the patient first and for the outcome of the surgery and usually had the patient pray with him. He was a very good doctor. I am not a religious person but will pray for anyone that asks. If nothing else, it sure can't hurt. Neither person, the one doing the praying, or the one being prayed for. It may only be that is has a placebo affect, if that's so, if it works, why not use it. It's very cheap.........FREE, and makes many people feel good! Here are just a few of the links I found on just one search. Shelly http://www.mercola.com/2000/nov/19/prayer_health.htm http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msciprayer.html http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/...5/us/us.1.html http://www.awesomepower.net/prayerstudies.htm http://www.detnews.com/2000/religion...5/c01-9322.htm http://www.holistic-online.com/Praye...ayer_proof.htm "Dr. Quilter" wrote in message ... Who conducted these studies? I don't have any problem with you personally Shelly, and no reason not to believe what you are saying, but just because you tell me it is a proven fact doesn't mean I have to automatically take it as such, do you agree? I am just very skeptical. I am sure that people that pray want to believe that they are doing something good for the person they are praying for, but I'd like to see some evidence, not just statements like that. Shelly wrote: It's a proven fact! Studies have shown that if you pray before surgery, healing time is much faster and you have a better turn out altogether with the surgery and recovery. Shelly "Dr. Quilter" wrote in message ... I am sorry, but I have to say something about this. I have heard of this, and I'd really like to know if there was a statistical significance between the improvment of people that were prayed for and those what were not. I truly don't believe in this!!! BTW, I think that if we want to help other people, actions are much more effective! Nell Reynolds wrote: Three or four years ago I read about some big research group that decided to research the efficacy of prayers. Yeah, right, I thought. But this research group asked people and groups all over the world to pray to their own god(s) in their own way to help various people. They enlisted Christian preachers of all denominations to ask for prayers from the pulpit, nuns and monks from various convents and monasteries, Buddhist temples, Muslim religious leaders, rabbis, and people from religions I had never heard of. The article said they conducted this in the standard double-blind method, different religions for various people not of their faith and in their faith, and a control group that got no prayer at all. No names were included, just requests for "a person (no gender or age) in (location) suffering from (affliction)." In every case, from every source of prayer, the target of the prayers reported improvement that was confirmed by diagnosis. Prayer does help. Nell in Austin " Ellison" wrote in message ... Howdy! Welcome home, RZ! SHE'S BAAACK!! Roberta & I "did" Fort Worth lightly the other day, finished w/ a glass of cold tea and a lonnnnng talk. Met Roberta's lovely older daughter; she does quilt shops, too. g Now let's talk Roberta into Houston 20-0-4 ! Ragmop/Sandy--leaving the charming thoughts from the original post "Roberta Zollner" wrote in message ... Glad you're mending! No need to thank us, really. Remember we're a network by our own volition. What affects you affects me, both the good stuff and the bad. And that quote-I-can't-remember about how shared joy multiplies, while shared trouble reduces? It's perfectly true. We bask in the light of our friends, even the cyber-light. I know for a fact that it's not even necessary to tell you my troubles to feel a calming presence. Reading the ng every day keeps all of you in my thoughts, just as I am sure to be in all of yours. Thanks! Roberta in D "Diana Curtis" wrote in message et... Im going to do a quick explanation with no gory details about my operation so everyone knows that I didnt get sent through a wringer. I had the type of gall bladder removal they used to do, and still do sometimes, instead of the easier to recover from laparoscopic type they prefer to do. So, instead of a set of tiny cuts I have a larger one, stapled shut, and two drain sites. The other part of the operation was a strange one where they ran a camera and other gizmos to the site of the stones via the mouth and got some out of the ducts. The reason my gall bladder needed this more invasive set of procedures was simply that there were so many stones and because they were large. Coctail onion size they said. While in the hospital I thought about what might and could happen while in surgery. I guess its inevitable to face ones own mortality, especially when we know we would leave precious little ones behind, but when I read the messages Mike printed and brought in from all of you I realized two things. Many of you had lived through these procedures and are happy for having done so. Second, I was not going to entertain the notion of leaving. Dying was not an option. I learned too that love can float around me and cradle me in times of fear. I felt very little. I dont know, or care what diety or enti ty you sent your prayers towards. I still feel them. They help me heal, because a body cant help but heal better when it feels happy, valued and loved. hmm...people have accused me of being effusive. Ill add maudlin to that list. Its your own problem if it seems over the top. In fact.. let me know if its over the top and Ill privately email you with MORE! buwahahahahahaha!!! hey, I dont LIKE whats happened to me... it hurts, but dang, you guys know how to do that love thing so nicely. My individual thanks will come as I have time and energy. I have a lot of them to do. I will do them with joy. Its so odd to feel so wonderfully happy. my love to you Diana I should probably let this sit overnight to edit later when Im not so high.. but.. i dont know.. is there a reason why I should not be this open with my feelings? http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44 -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/03 -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/03 -- Please visit my web page at: http://home1.gte.net/res0yk6g/taria/index.htm See my Siberian Cat, Lilly, at: http://home1.gte.net/res0yk6g/lillypage/lillycat.htm |
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I have found the studies, and also info about how they were discredited.
Anybody intersted in the links? http://skepdic.com/prayer.html http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...er/index.shtml http://www.csicop.org/articles/20010810-prayer/ It is very sad, but it seems that the psychologist that conducted the study, a woman, with funding from the NIH as Shelley correctly pointed out, actually died of a type of brain cancer that was one of the examples she had selected for her study (the other was AIDS). Obviously the prayers did not work in this case! I also found lots of philosophical arguments on why the doings of a superior being cannot be influenced by the wishes of us mortals. Interesting subject, in fact. The fact that you know of one doctor who prayed before surgery does not prove anything, only that he himself believed in the power of praying. By the way, you say you are not a religious person but will pray when asked to do so. I am confused. If you are not religious, does that mean you don't believe in God? Then, what is the purpose of praying? Shelly wrote: The government has funded studies, as well as many others. Doctors from Johns Hopkin have participated in studies, just to name one. This is nothing new on the medical front. I know this has been going on since at least the early 80's. We had a doctor here that would not operate without he prayed for the patient first and for the outcome of the surgery and usually had the patient pray with him. He was a very good doctor. I am not a religious person but will pray for anyone that asks. If nothing else, it sure can't hurt. Neither person, the one doing the praying, or the one being prayed for. It may only be that is has a placebo affect, if that's so, if it works, why not use it. It's very cheap.........FREE, and makes many people feel good! Here are just a few of the links I found on just one search. Shelly -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens |
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Prayer is a positive energy. I don't see that as ever being
a bad thing. Nobody here (especially me) is going to convert you to believe what you don't have any interest in believing. I've struggled most of my life with religion (not God but religion) If you have no sense of faith you'll never get it. Maybe your next life but not this one. God has a plan for you even if you don't acknowledge it you are living it ! Taria "Dr. Quilter" wrote: I have found the studies, and also info about how they were discredited. Anybody intersted in the links? http://skepdic.com/prayer.html http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...er/index.shtml http://www.csicop.org/articles/20010810-prayer/ It is very sad, but it seems that the psychologist that conducted the study, a woman, with funding from the NIH as Shelley correctly pointed out, actually died of a type of brain cancer that was one of the examples she had selected for her study (the other was AIDS). Obviously the prayers did not work in this case! I also found lots of philosophical arguments on why the doings of a superior being cannot be influenced by the wishes of us mortals. Interesting subject, in fact. The fact that you know of one doctor who prayed before surgery does not prove anything, only that he himself believed in the power of praying. By the way, you say you are not a religious person but will pray when asked to do so. I am confused. If you are not religious, does that mean you don't believe in God? Then, what is the purpose of praying? Shelly wrote: The government has funded studies, as well as many others. Doctors from Johns Hopkin have participated in studies, just to name one. This is nothing new on the medical front. I know this has been going on since at least the early 80's. We had a doctor here that would not operate without he prayed for the patient first and for the outcome of the surgery and usually had the patient pray with him. He was a very good doctor. I am not a religious person but will pray for anyone that asks. If nothing else, it sure can't hurt. Neither person, the one doing the praying, or the one being prayed for. It may only be that is has a placebo affect, if that's so, if it works, why not use it. It's very cheap.........FREE, and makes many people feel good! Here are just a few of the links I found on just one search. Shelly -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens -- Please visit my web page at: http://home1.gte.net/res0yk6g/taria/index.htm See my Siberian Cat, Lilly, at: http://home1.gte.net/res0yk6g/lillypage/lillycat.htm |
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Snipped intermittently
The fact that you know of one doctor who prayed before surgery does not prove anything, I never said that it proved anything, nor did I pretend it did! The particular doctor prayed because he'd observed studies that had shown that prayer before surgery helped patients recover more quickly, had fewer complications and infections post-op and just had better results overall and guess what else???? He was very religious. He apparently, believed in the power of prayer and wanted to pray before surgery. Excellent doctor. By the way, you say you are not a religious person but will pray when asked to do so. I am confused. Why do my religious preferences, or lack of them, confuse you? As I stated before, I am not a religious person but if someone asks to be prayed for, I'll honor their request. Just because one no longer chooses to participate in a church, does not mean that they can not pray for someone. This is the US. and there aren't any laws pertaining to religion that I know of, other than the one that states children can't have prayer in schools, which by the way, I think is RIDICULOS! If you are not religious, does that mean you don't believe in God? Then, what is the purpose of praying? My religious beliefs, or lack there of, are none of your business, or anyone elses. I do not go to church but grew up in and of, the Baptist faith, if that's important to you, it's not to me. If someone wants a prayer, like I said, I'll pray for them. Just because I said that I'm not a religious person, does NOT mean that I do not have my own personal beliefs. Religion is after all, only beliefs. It's a fact that prayer makes some people feel better by relieving anxiety & stress , taking their mind off their problems and who wouldn't feel better without stress and worry over any problem? How can that not make a person feel better and heal faster? No worries = more time and energy to concentrate on getting better/healing. Who really cares if it works, IF it makes a person feel/heal better after a surgery, or have a more positive outcome while under the knife in surgery, that's all that counts, isn't it? It's not about what I BELIEVE and whether or not, I consider myself to be a religious person here, it's about the person requesting prayer and about what they believe. It's a very small price to pay, to help make someone else feel good, so why not just do it? It costs nothing. I'd like to think, that prayers work and if that's true, they work equally for all faiths. It doesn't matter whether the person is Jewish and praying for someone of the Catholic faith, or a Methodist praying for an athiest. Religion is religion, all beliving in a higher power. IF the prayers don't work, no one's been hurt either way. Now, back to the regularly scheduled program............quilting. Shelly --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 |
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Just curious. It confuses me because I don't see how somebody that is
not religious can pray. Maybe it is naive, but don't you have to believe in a superior being that you are praying to? Otherwise I see it as a void exercise. For example, when people request prayers, even if I feel for them, I would not feel comforable 'pretending' to pray since it would be kind of hypocritical of me. So I wish they get better, and feel for them. BTW, I don't believe in 'positive energy' either. I do believe that if someone knows other people care for them and are worried about their condition, they'll probably feel comforted. I am less convinced that feeling good can help in the progression of their disease, but maybe there is some truth to that. But if I rememeber correctly, the study that was mentioned and started all this, said that the people that were prayed for were unaware of it, hence all this does not apply, because they wouldn't have had the 'placebo' benefit that was mentioned before in the thread! BTW, I don't see why you are getting upset and defensive, it was a genuine question and I am not criticizing your position, which of course you don't need to discuss with me if you don't want to. But I did find it puzzling. Being in the US and there not being any laws about religion has nothing to do with it. Maybe it is just a missinterpretation of what you mean when you say you are not religious, related to the distinction between not going to church and not believing in God? From my -maybe naive- point of view, people that believe but chose not to participate in organized religious activities are still 'religious'. I find religion and beliefs a very interesting subject which I see from the outside, so I don't really understand it, and I am genuinely interested in why people believe. IMHO, most of the time it is something you 'learn' from your family, almost inherited like a gene. I know that in the US people sometimes get all upset about discussing religion (and sex, and politics), but those are the most interesting subjects to me! By the way, you say you are not a religious person but will pray when asked to do so. I am confused. Why do my religious preferences, or lack of them, confuse you? As I stated before, I am not a religious person but if someone asks to be prayed for, I'll honor their request. Just because one no longer chooses to participate in a church, does not mean that they can not pray for someone. This is the US. and there aren't any laws pertaining to religion that I know of, other than the one that states children can't have prayer in schools, which by the way, I think is RIDICULOS! If you are not religious, does that mean you don't believe in God? Then, what is the purpose of praying? My religious beliefs, or lack there of, are none of your business, or anyone elses. I do not go to church but grew up in and of, the Baptist faith, if that's important to you, it's not to me. If someone wants a prayer, like I said, I'll pray for them. Just because I said that I'm not a religious person, does NOT mean that I do not have my own personal beliefs. Religion is after all, only beliefs. It's a fact that prayer makes some people feel better by relieving anxiety & stress , taking their mind off their problems and who wouldn't feel better without stress and worry over any problem? How can that not make a person feel better and heal faster? No worries = more time and energy to concentrate on getting better/healing. Who really cares if it works, IF it makes a person feel/heal better after a surgery, or have a more positive outcome while under the knife in surgery, that's all that counts, isn't it? It's not about what I BELIEVE and whether or not, I consider myself to be a religious person here, it's about the person requesting prayer and about what they believe. It's a very small price to pay, to help make someone else feel good, so why not just do it? It costs nothing. I'd like to think, that prayers work and if that's true, they work equally for all faiths. It doesn't matter whether the person is Jewish and praying for someone of the Catholic faith, or a Methodist praying for an athiest. Religion is religion, all beliving in a higher power. IF the prayers don't work, no one's been hurt either way. Now, back to the regularly scheduled program............quilting. Shelly --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens |
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BTW, I don't see why you are getting upset and defensive, it was a genuine question and I am not criticizing your position, which of course you don't need to discuss with me if you don't want to. I am not upset, nor am I defensive. I gave you genuine answers. Shelly "Dr. Quilter" wrote in message ... Just curious. It confuses me because I don't see how somebody that is not religious can pray. Maybe it is naive, but don't you have to believe in a superior being that you are praying to? Otherwise I see it as a void exercise. For example, when people request prayers, even if I feel for them, I would not feel comforable 'pretending' to pray since it would be kind of hypocritical of me. So I wish they get better, and feel for them. BTW, I don't believe in 'positive energy' either. I do believe that if someone knows other people care for them and are worried about their condition, they'll probably feel comforted. I am less convinced that feeling good can help in the progression of their disease, but maybe there is some truth to that. But if I rememeber correctly, the study that was mentioned and started all this, said that the people that were prayed for were unaware of it, hence all this does not apply, because they wouldn't have had the 'placebo' benefit that was mentioned before in the thread! BTW, I don't see why you are getting upset and defensive, it was a genuine question and I am not criticizing your position, which of course you don't need to discuss with me if you don't want to. But I did find it puzzling. Being in the US and there not being any laws about religion has nothing to do with it. Maybe it is just a missinterpretation of what you mean when you say you are not religious, related to the distinction between not going to church and not believing in God? From my -maybe naive- point of view, people that believe but chose not to participate in organized religious activities are still 'religious'. I find religion and beliefs a very interesting subject which I see from the outside, so I don't really understand it, and I am genuinely interested in why people believe. IMHO, most of the time it is something you 'learn' from your family, almost inherited like a gene. I know that in the US people sometimes get all upset about discussing religion (and sex, and politics), but those are the most interesting subjects to me! By the way, you say you are not a religious person but will pray when asked to do so. I am confused. Why do my religious preferences, or lack of them, confuse you? As I stated before, I am not a religious person but if someone asks to be prayed for, I'll honor their request. Just because one no longer chooses to participate in a church, does not mean that they can not pray for someone. This is the US. and there aren't any laws pertaining to religion that I know of, other than the one that states children can't have prayer in schools, which by the way, I think is RIDICULOS! If you are not religious, does that mean you don't believe in God? Then, what is the purpose of praying? My religious beliefs, or lack there of, are none of your business, or anyone elses. I do not go to church but grew up in and of, the Baptist faith, if that's important to you, it's not to me. If someone wants a prayer, like I said, I'll pray for them. Just because I said that I'm not a religious person, does NOT mean that I do not have my own personal beliefs. Religion is after all, only beliefs. It's a fact that prayer makes some people feel better by relieving anxiety & stress , taking their mind off their problems and who wouldn't feel better without stress and worry over any problem? How can that not make a person feel better and heal faster? No worries = more time and energy to concentrate on getting better/healing. Who really cares if it works, IF it makes a person feel/heal better after a surgery, or have a more positive outcome while under the knife in surgery, that's all that counts, isn't it? It's not about what I BELIEVE and whether or not, I consider myself to be a religious person here, it's about the person requesting prayer and about what they believe. It's a very small price to pay, to help make someone else feel good, so why not just do it? It costs nothing. I'd like to think, that prayers work and if that's true, they work equally for all faiths. It doesn't matter whether the person is Jewish and praying for someone of the Catholic faith, or a Methodist praying for an athiest. Religion is religion, all beliving in a higher power. IF the prayers don't work, no one's been hurt either way. Now, back to the regularly scheduled program............quilting. Shelly --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 -- Dr. Quilter Ambassador of Extraordinary Aliens --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 |
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