Where can I buy cerium oxide glass polishing powder?

"Beveled Glass Arts" wrote in message
s.com...
Mike,

Greetings from the future! Although the last posting to this thread
was in 2004 I thought I would share some of my own experiences
regarding polishing powder for hand beveled glass with other bevelers
who may have similar questions and will more then likely come across
this discussion when they do a search on this subject. In 1979 one of
the glass shops where I was working as a beveler, we used Rareox 90 on
a Somaca polishing machine with a 24" X 3" medium hard woolfelt ring
with good results. We got the polishing powder from Sommer & Maca.
After a short stint with this company I went on my own supplying
stained glass shops in the Salt Lake City area with custom beveled
glass. I used Rareox 90 for a couple of years thinking I was using
some really good polishing powder and compared to Rareox 45 it was.
One day I was speaking to a sales rep from Salem Distributing located
in North Carolina. He told me about Cerox 1670 and that it was
specifically made for hand polishing of beveled glass. I tried some
and couldn't believe the difference. It wasn't just a small
difference, it was like night and day. I've been using it ever since.
Over the years I've tried many different polishing powders but nothing
even comes close. Salem Distributing's Quest 90 also does a good job
and is much less expensive then Cerox 1670. Get samples from Salem and
see what you think.

Cheers, Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com


I see Quest 98 listed on their website, and a Quest 76, but no 90, did you
perhaps do a typo, or do they have one that is not listed? and how did you
find the Cerox as far as how long it lasts. I see a 20 kg pail, which in my
experience lasts a long , long time, I think several years, if it is really
efficient material, I would expect it to outlast the rareOx 90? what was
your experience in that regard?

My only reference would also be with Somaca material...if there is something
better, I want it.

On Aug 7, 11:46 am, "glassguy" wrote:
"Beveled Glass Arts" wrote in legroups.com...



Mike,

Greetings from the future! Although the last posting to this thread
was in 2004 I thought I would share some of my own experiences
regarding polishing powder for hand beveled glass with other bevelers
who may have similar questions and will more then likely come across
this discussion when they do a search on this subject. In 1979 one of
the glass shops where I was working as a beveler, we used Rareox 90 on
a Somaca polishing machine with a 24" X 3" medium hard woolfelt ring
with good results. We got the polishing powder from Sommer & Maca.
After a short stint with this company I went on my own supplying
stained glass shops in the Salt Lake City area with custom beveled
glass. I used Rareox 90 for a couple of years thinking I was using
some really good polishing powder and compared to Rareox 45 it was.
One day I was speaking to a sales rep from Salem Distributing located
in North Carolina. He told me about Cerox 1670 and that it was
specifically made for hand polishing of beveled glass. I tried some
and couldn't believe the difference. It wasn't just a small
difference, it was like night and day. I've been using it ever since.
Over the years I've tried many different polishing powders but nothing
even comes close. Salem Distributing's Quest 90 also does a good job
and is much less expensive then Cerox 1670. Get samples from Salem and
see what you think.

Cheers, Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com

I see Quest 98 listed on their website, and a Quest 76, but no 90, did you
perhaps do a typo, or do they have one that is not listed? and how did you
find the Cerox as far as how long it lasts. I see a 20 kg pail, which in my
experience lasts a long , long time, I think several years, if it is really
efficient material, I would expect it to outlast the rareOx 90? what was
your experience in that regard?

My only reference would also be with Somaca material...if there is something
better, I want it.


I talked to Bob Datz at Salem Dist. yesterday about this. Evidently
The Quest 98 is a new item but they still carry the Quest 90.
The difference:

Quest 90:
Cerium Oxide: 80% - 85%
Particle Size: .7 - .9 Microns
Suspension: Yes
Price: $224 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Quest 98:
Cerium Oxide: 98% - 99%
Particle Size: .6 - .8 Microns
Suspension: No
Price: $292 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Cerox 1670
Cerium Oxide: 65%
Particle Size: 1.0 - 2.0 Microns
Suspension: No
Price: $489 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Looks like the choice would be between the Quest 98 and the Cerox
1670. Although the Quest 98 has a smaller particle size than the Quest
90, I think the higher concentration of cerium would make for quicker
polishing plus a brighter polish. The difference in price between the
90 and 98 is so small that it is a non issue. As you can see by the
particle size comparison the Cerox 1670 is about twice as course as
the Quest products. Although the concentration of cerium is less, it
is much more aggressive. This is especially noticeable when doing
scratch polishing. If you're doing freehand beveled glass the Cerox
1670 would probably be the better choice.

As for your mileage, that all depends on the way you bevel. I know of
a beveler that uses 3F to pre-polish. He spends more time on the cork
wheel but only has to touch the bevel on the felt. His reasoning is
that a pound of pumice is cheaper then a pound of cerium. Good point!
Your pre-polish has a big bearing on how much time you spend
polishing. If you think you are spending to much time polishing maybe
you need to take a look at the way your machines are set up or your
procedures. For instance, without you telling me anything about your
setup or procedures I can tell you that your SFPM (surface feet per
minute) on your pre-polish and polishing wheels are probably wrong.
You're probably running to fast on your cork and to slow on your felt.
As for my mileage, the Cerox has lasted up to five years mixed at
around 5 degrees baume'. At the rate I'm using my pail of Quest 90 it
will probably last about two years give or take, mixed at around 7
degrees baume'. With the Rareox 90 it's hard to say. it's been over
twenty years since I've used it and since then everything about the
way I bevel has changed so it wouldn't be a fair comparison anyway.

Give Salem Dist. a call at (800) 234-1982. I talked to Bob Datz at
extension 231 but any of the sales reps will be able to help you out.
A sample of the Quest 98 is $35 for 5 pounds, a sample of Cerox 1670
is $28 for 1KG (2.2 pounds). Let us know how it works out.

Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com

On Aug 10, 1:17 pm, Beveled Glass Arts
wrote:
On Aug 7, 11:46 am, "glassguy" wrote:



"Beveled Glass Arts" wrote in legroups.com...

Mike,

Greetings from the future! Although the last posting to this thread
was in 2004 I thought I would share some of my own experiences
regarding polishing powder for hand beveled glass with other bevelers
who may have similar questions and will more then likely come across
this discussion when they do a search on this subject. In 1979 one of
the glass shops where I was working as a beveler, we used Rareox 90 on
a Somaca polishing machine with a 24" X 3" medium hard woolfelt ring
with good results. We got the polishing powder from Sommer & Maca.
After a short stint with this company I went on my own supplying
stained glass shops in the Salt Lake City area with custom beveled
glass. I used Rareox 90 for a couple of years thinking I was using
some really good polishing powder and compared to Rareox 45 it was.
One day I was speaking to a sales rep from Salem Distributing located
in North Carolina. He told me about Cerox 1670 and that it was
specifically made for hand polishing of beveled glass. I tried some
and couldn't believe the difference. It wasn't just a small
difference, it was like night and day. I've been using it ever since.
Over the years I've tried many different polishing powders but nothing
even comes close. Salem Distributing's Quest 90 also does a good job
and is much less expensive then Cerox 1670. Get samples from Salem and
see what you think.

Cheers, Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com

I see Quest 98 listed on their website, and a Quest 76, but no 90, did you
perhaps do a typo, or do they have one that is not listed? and how did you
find the Cerox as far as how long it lasts. I see a 20 kg pail, which in my
experience lasts a long , long time, I think several years, if it is really
efficient material, I would expect it to outlast the rareOx 90? what was
your experience in that regard?

My only reference would also be with Somaca material...if there is something
better, I want it.

I talked to Bob Datz at Salem Dist. yesterday about this. Evidently
The Quest 98 is a new item but they still carry the Quest 90.
The difference:

Quest 90:
Cerium Oxide: 80% - 85%
Particle Size: .7 - .9 Microns
Suspension: Yes
Price: $224 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Quest 98:
Cerium Oxide: 98% - 99%
Particle Size: .6 - .8 Microns
Suspension: No
Price: $292 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Cerox 1670
Cerium Oxide: 65%
Particle Size: 1.0 - 2.0 Microns
Suspension: No
Price: $489 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Looks like the choice would be between the Quest 98 and the Cerox
1670. Although the Quest 98 has a smaller particle size than the Quest
90, I think the higher concentration of cerium would make for quicker
polishing plus a brighter polish. The difference in price between the
90 and 98 is so small that it is a non issue. As you can see by the
particle size comparison the Cerox 1670 is about twice as course as
the Quest products. Although the concentration of cerium is less, it
is much more aggressive. This is especially noticeable when doing
scratch polishing. If you're doing freehand beveled glass the Cerox
1670 would probably be the better choice.

As for your mileage, that all depends on the way you bevel. I know of
a beveler that uses 3F to pre-polish. He spends more time on the cork
wheel but only has to touch the bevel on the felt. His reasoning is
that a pound of pumice is cheaper then a pound of cerium. Good point!
Your pre-polish has a big bearing on how much time you spend
polishing. If you think you are spending to much time polishing maybe
you need to take a look at the way your machines are set up or your
procedures. For instance, without you telling me anything about your
setup or procedures I can tell you that your SFPM (surface feet per
minute) on your pre-polish and polishing wheels are probably wrong.
You're probably running to fast on your cork and to slow on your felt.
As for my mileage, the Cerox has lasted up to five years mixed at
around 5 degrees baume'. At the rate I'm using my pail of Quest 90 it
will probably last about two years give or take, mixed at around 7
degrees baume'. With the Rareox 90 it's hard to say. it's been over
twenty years since I've used it and since then everything about the
way I bevel has changed so it wouldn't be a fair comparison anyway.

Give Salem Dist. a call at (800) 234-1982. I talked to Bob Datz at
extension 231 but any of the sales reps will be able to help you out.
A sample of the Quest 98 is $35 for 5 pounds, a sample of Cerox 1670
is $28 for 1KG (2.2 pounds). Let us know how it works out.

Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Artshttp://www.beveledglassarts.com

I forgot to mention, Bob said you wouldn't have to open an account to
buy the samples

Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts

http://www.beveledglassarts.com

On Aug 10, 1:17 pm, Beveled Glass Arts
wrote:
On Aug 7, 11:46 am, "glassguy" wrote:



"Beveled Glass Arts" wrote in legroups.com...

Mike,

Greetings from the future! Although the last posting to this thread
was in 2004 I thought I would share some of my own experiences
regarding polishing powder for hand beveled glass with other bevelers
who may have similar questions and will more then likely come across
this discussion when they do a search on this subject. In 1979 one of
the glass shops where I was working as a beveler, we used Rareox 90 on
a Somaca polishing machine with a 24" X 3" medium hard woolfelt ring
with good results. We got the polishing powder from Sommer & Maca.
After a short stint with this company I went on my own supplying
stained glass shops in the Salt Lake City area with custom beveled
glass. I used Rareox 90 for a couple of years thinking I was using
some really good polishing powder and compared to Rareox 45 it was.
One day I was speaking to a sales rep from Salem Distributing located
in North Carolina. He told me about Cerox 1670 and that it was
specifically made for hand polishing of beveled glass. I tried some
and couldn't believe the difference. It wasn't just a small
difference, it was like night and day. I've been using it ever since.
Over the years I've tried many different polishing powders but nothing
even comes close. Salem Distributing's Quest 90 also does a good job
and is much less expensive then Cerox 1670. Get samples from Salem and
see what you think.

Cheers, Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com

I see Quest 98 listed on their website, and a Quest 76, but no 90, did you
perhaps do a typo, or do they have one that is not listed? and how did you
find the Cerox as far as how long it lasts. I see a 20 kg pail, which in my
experience lasts a long , long time, I think several years, if it is really
efficient material, I would expect it to outlast the rareOx 90? what was
your experience in that regard?

My only reference would also be with Somaca material...if there is something
better, I want it.

I talked to Bob Datz at Salem Dist. yesterday about this. Evidently
The Quest 98 is a new item but they still carry the Quest 90.
The difference:

Quest 90:
Cerium Oxide: 80% - 85%
Particle Size: .7 - .9 Microns
Suspension: Yes
Price: $224 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Quest 98:
Cerium Oxide: 98% - 99%
Particle Size: .6 - .8 Microns
Suspension: No
Price: $292 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Cerox 1670
Cerium Oxide: 65%
Particle Size: 1.0 - 2.0 Microns
Suspension: No
Price: $489 for 20 Kilogram Pail

Looks like the choice would be between the Quest 98 and the Cerox
1670. Although the Quest 98 has a smaller particle size than the Quest
90, I think the higher concentration of cerium would make for quicker
polishing plus a brighter polish. The difference in price between the
90 and 98 is so small that it is a non issue. As you can see by the
particle size comparison the Cerox 1670 is about twice as course as
the Quest products. Although the concentration of cerium is less, it
is much more aggressive. This is especially noticeable when doing
scratch polishing. If you're doing freehand beveled glass the Cerox
1670 would probably be the better choice.

As for your mileage, that all depends on the way you bevel. I know of
a beveler that uses 3F to pre-polish. He spends more time on the cork
wheel but only has to touch the bevel on the felt. His reasoning is
that a pound of pumice is cheaper then a pound of cerium. Good point!
Your pre-polish has a big bearing on how much time you spend
polishing. If you think you are spending to much time polishing maybe
you need to take a look at the way your machines are set up or your
procedures. For instance, without you telling me anything about your
setup or procedures I can tell you that your SFPM (surface feet per
minute) on your pre-polish and polishing wheels are probably wrong.
You're probably running to fast on your cork and to slow on your felt.
As for my mileage, the Cerox has lasted up to five years mixed at
around 5 degrees baume'. At the rate I'm using my pail of Quest 90 it
will probably last about two years give or take, mixed at around 7
degrees baume'. With the Rareox 90 it's hard to say. it's been over
twenty years since I've used it and since then everything about the
way I bevel has changed so it wouldn't be a fair comparison anyway.

Give Salem Dist. a call at (800) 234-1982. I talked to Bob Datz at
extension 231 but any of the sales reps will be able to help you out.
A sample of the Quest 98 is $35 for 5 pounds, a sample of Cerox 1670
is $28 for 1KG (2.2 pounds). Let us know how it works out.

Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Artshttp://www.beveledglassarts.com

A few posts ago glassguy mentioned that he had found the Quest 98
polishing powder on Salem Distributing's web site which I was not
aware of. After talking to Bob Datz at Salem I figured I better check
it out and ordered a 5 pound sample (and a new catalog) to compare
against the Quest 90 and Cerox 1670 that I am currently using . After
a fair evaluation period I concluded that what I had said in a
previous post was spot on.

I said "Looks like the choice would be between the Quest 98 and the
Cerox1670. Although the Quest 98 has a smaller particle size than the
Quest90, I think the higher concentration of cerium would make for
quicker polishing plus a brighter polish. The difference in price
between the 90 and 98 is so small that it is a non issue. As you can
see by the particle size comparison the Cerox 1670 is about twice as
course as the Quest products. Although the concentration of cerium is
less, it is much more aggressive. This is especially noticeable when
doing scratch polishing. If you're doing freehand beveled glass the
Cerox 1670 would probably be the better choice."

A few other thoughts:

Although the Quest 98 is not suspension treated the particles do stay
suspended much longer the Cerox 1670.

The type of polishing wheel (synthetic vs. wool felt and wheel
hardness) has a noticeable effect of the polishing brightness of The
Cerox 1670 polish.

I wanted to order a sample of the Cerox 1630 but they were out of it.
The Cerox 1630 is the suspension treated version of the Cerox 1670.
The 1670 separates very quickly. It's very annoying when I have to
stir the solution every time I dip my brush, when you're polishing all
day those few extra seconds spent stirring the solution really add up.

Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com

Snipped to conserve space:


A few posts ago glassguy mentioned that he had found the Quest 98
polishing powder on Salem Distributing's web site which I was not
aware of. After talking to Bob Datz at Salem I figured I better check
it out and ordered a 5 pound sample (and a new catalog) to compare
against the Quest 90 and Cerox 1670 that I am currently using . After
a fair evaluation period I concluded that what I had said in a
previous post was spot on.

I said "Looks like the choice would be between the Quest 98 and the
Cerox1670. Although the Quest 98 has a smaller particle size than the
Quest90, I think the higher concentration of cerium would make for
quicker polishing plus a brighter polish. The difference in price
between the 90 and 98 is so small that it is a non issue. As you can
see by the particle size comparison the Cerox 1670 is about twice as
course as the Quest products. Although the concentration of cerium is
less, it is much more aggressive. This is especially noticeable when
doing scratch polishing. If you're doing freehand beveled glass the
Cerox 1670 would probably be the better choice."

A few other thoughts:

Although the Quest 98 is not suspension treated the particles do stay
suspended much longer the Cerox 1670.

The type of polishing wheel (synthetic vs. wool felt and wheel
hardness) has a noticeable effect of the polishing brightness of The
Cerox 1670 polish.

I wanted to order a sample of the Cerox 1630 but they were out of it.
The Cerox 1630 is the suspension treated version of the Cerox 1670.
The 1670 separates very quickly. It's very annoying when I have to
stir the solution every time I dip my brush, when you're polishing all
day those few extra seconds spent stirring the solution really add up.

Timothy Trent
Beveled Glass Arts
http://www.beveledglassarts.com

I did order the samples from Salem, great people by the way, although I must
say, call them and find out who the local sales rep is, their website could
use updating in that area. I dealt with Beth Brown at the NC office and she
was great.

I ordered the 1670, (they are out) and the Qwest98W (w for white). She was
kind enough to send the 98 and some stuff called Freedom White, ( one kilo
bottle, sent it free thank you very much), then this week I got, surprise,
another pail sample,(paid for. ) of a Cerium called Super OX, I am going to
have to call and ask her about details on these items and how they compare,
because I have no idea.

I don't keep track of, nor does it matter to me, all the numbers involved as
Tim does. Maybe I should do that, but what I keep track of his how it works
for me in my shop and with my wheels. I wouldn't know how to mix it in a
particular "baume" if I had to, I dump it in a pail, add water, make a
slurry that sticks to the wheel, (wool felt wheel, I think?) and go. I put
the cerium on the wheel with a wet sponge? Is there another way?

Perhaps this will bring up alot of differences of operating on a beveling
machine. To my knowledge, there are a couple of books out on beveling, and
neither of them cover it as well as it could be, but then I am not a writer
or a critic, I am a glass worker.

I do not do just beveling, I do a great many things in my studio, by
offering variety of services, it keeps me in business when the retail supply
store just closed up shop.

My time on the machines MUST be maximized, so when I saw the post that Tim
made, I decided to spend some dough and check it out.
I will say for comparison, that the Freedom White, the Qwest 98, and the
SuperOX are all relatively close in price, with the Qwest being a bit less 5
lbs @ $35 versus 2 Kilos @ $28, but pretty close.

As far as use........

So far I have tried the Freedom White, and I will say the results are far
better than what I experienced with a similar product from Somaca and CRL.
I have some beveling to do today and will try out the Qwest, let you know
how it goes.

another point to make in these posts.

Tim and I traded an email, my first I stated to him that I wasn't going to
post much about this because there weren't many bevellers on this NG. He
felt the conversation would be beneficial and out live the both of us,(
well, I don't know about you, Tim, but I am living forever).

As long as the derogatory and negative language stays out of this, then I
will continue to relate my experiences with these products, and how I use
them and how they work for me.

If it becomes a bash fest/ flame war, then to hell with it, not worth my
time.

If it helps someone else, good, if it doesn't, Oh well.