DECEMBER'S BLOCKS - 2005-2006 RCTQ Block-of-the-Month (BOM)

It's a fact - my daughter never got along with others - at home - at
school - at work - no one no where. I worried about her from the onset of
puberty till now. She acted out - was violent and self destructive. I was
relieved that she wasn't into the drug culture - not even marijuana - but
she did abuse alcohol. She didn't drink all the time - but was a weekend
binge drinker. It exacerbated her anger and she would react violently when
she drank. I have always loved my DD but many are the times that I didn't
like her very much and hated some of her behaviors. Can't say I blame you
for avoiding folks with BPD - we all have a right to avoid toxic
relationships - but a mother can't avoid her child. I just see her as
having an incurable disease. Sometimes the disease is in remission and
sometimes it's not.

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"lisa skeen" wrote in message
nk.net...
I had been avoiding this topic; seems macabre for this NG as well as the
season in general. However, I did read this one. My first GF was bipolar.
Her mother was a nurse. GF wouldn't take the meds b/c they made her gain
weight and her mother made comments about it. Things got really ugly; she
was a nasty person w/o the meds, high or low. I escaped, and now avoid BP
people like the plague.

L

"the black rose" wrote in message
...
hfw wrote:
That med balancing act is SO difficult with BPD. Aside from the
chemicals themselves, so often when people are at one pole they don't
think they need the meds. My heart goes out to them, and to the people
who love them.

They really need to find better treatment for BPD. My brother was
murdered by his BPD girlfriend when she was on a manic high and had gone
off her meds. So you can see it goes way farther than just the effects
on the person with BPD themselves -- I wish it were somehow mandatory for
them to stay on their medication. I don't know how you'd legislate or
enforce that, but perhaps it's understandable that I would wish there
could be a way, since I'll never get my brother back because his
girlfriend went off her meds and there was no one to make her take them.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

-------- __o
----- -\. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

My understanding is that both the Catholic Church and the majority of Jewish
authorities have reversed rulings that did not allow people who had
committed suicide to be buried in consecrated ground on this very basis.
They are, at least at the very moment, considered to be in such a state
mentally or emotionally that they cannot be held responsible, so therefore
cannot be denied honors.

Jewish law even used to forbid funerals in the case of suicide, although
that practice was not based on Torah or Talmud. I don't know about canon
(Catholic) law in this case.

I would guess that in both faiths the initial motivation for change was to
provide a measure of comfort and healing for the survivors.

--Heidi
Plattsburgh (UPstate) NY

http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b
--

"Dixie Sugar" wrote in message
...
It is hard for me to believe that someone who commits suicide is in their
right mind.

When I was in HS one of our Members committed suicide. She was in and out of
the 'State Home' for years. She was in the hospital at the time it happened.
She received the Mass Of Christian Burial--which at the time was a little
bit different from the normal Requiem Mass.
I don't recall what the difference was, I just remember singing in the choir
for it and getting time off from school to do so--my older sister was the
organist. Mass was still said in Latin at the time. (English was instituted
before I graduated HS)

Butterfly

"hfw" wrote in message
...
My understanding is that both the Catholic Church and the majority of
Jewish authorities have reversed rulings that did not allow people who had
committed suicide to be buried in consecrated ground on this very basis.
They are, at least at the very moment, considered to be in such a state
mentally or emotionally that they cannot be held responsible, so therefore
cannot be denied honors.

Jewish law even used to forbid funerals in the case of suicide, although
that practice was not based on Torah or Talmud. I don't know about canon
(Catholic) law in this case.

I would guess that in both faiths the initial motivation for change was to
provide a measure of comfort and healing for the survivors.

--Heidi
Plattsburgh (UPstate) NY

http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b
--

"Dixie Sugar" wrote in message
...
It is hard for me to believe that someone who commits suicide is in their
right mind.

There is suicide and there is suicide.

When our kiri's stepdad, who had Lou Gerhigs disease, decided it was
time to turn off the ventilator, it never even occured to think of it
as suicide. Though I suppose technically it was. I remember back
before antiretrovirals became available and indeed knowledge about how
to treat AIDS patiants was almost nonexistant, some friends chose to
end things before it got horrible, others held on as long as they
could hoping for a breakthrough. I was not about to pass judgement on
either, both decisions took a great deal of courage.

Then there are people who just up and end it all for reasons that no
one understands. Was it courage or cowardice? Since we weren't in
their heads when they did it, who knows?

NightMist
never underestimate the terrors that live in someone else's head

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:53:06 -0600, "Dixie Sugar"
wrote:

It is hard for me to believe that someone who commits suicide is in their
right mind. I have also had the thought it would take a lot of courage to
commit suicide too but maybe that's not it at all. Maybe they are just so
despondent that they can't think of anything but getting out of whatever is
making life so unbearable in their minds at that time. Suicide is life
shattering to those left behind. Spoken from experience I'm sorry to say.

Dixie Sugar
"Dixie" wrote in message
...
As far as I can understand it takes quite an amount of courage
for a person to commit suicide.
Dixie.

When I give to you something I made with my hands I share my heart.




--
"To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge
it, requires brains." -Mary Pettibone Poole

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:46:44 GMT, the black rose
wrote:

hfw wrote:
That med balancing act is SO difficult with BPD. Aside from the chemicals
themselves, so often when people are at one pole they don't think they need
the meds. My heart goes out to them, and to the people who love them.

They really need to find better treatment for BPD. My brother was
murdered by his BPD girlfriend when she was on a manic high and had gone
off her meds. So you can see it goes way farther than just the effects
on the person with BPD themselves -- I wish it were somehow mandatory
for them to stay on their medication. I don't know how you'd legislate
or enforce that, but perhaps it's understandable that I would wish there
could be a way, since I'll never get my brother back because his
girlfriend went off her meds and there was no one to make her take them.


Oh dear gods NO!

I have sympathy for your loss, but you have no concept what you are
wishing for.

Yes there are people who go off the end of the pier and do very bad
things when they go off their meds.

There are also people like me, I am functioning and indeed function
better without meds than with in most situations. With the meds I
become impaired to the point that I cannot do, and my whole self is
wrapped in doing. The only time I ever approached actively suicidal
was when overwhelmed by despair at the idea of taking these drugs
forever and never being able to do anything worth doing, or think
clearly again. I chose to quit the drugs rather than jumping off a
bridge or something.

And in NY Kendra's law says that persons with a mental health
diagnosis can be mandated by the courts to follow treatment
recomendations. Really the law is rather superflouous because there
are courts in the state could mandate that anyway. Very scarey for a
person with a diagnosis.
Here is a magazine article talking about it.

http://www.narpa.org/city.limits.htm

Better treatment would be good.
Yes I am an egomaniacal, constantly in motion, freaky looking critter
that talks to herself. This is unusual how? The world is actually
full of people like me, and once in a while we freak the mundanes, but
don't generally do anything particularly bad. It is the people that
swing from one extreme to another that get scarey.

NightMist
--
"To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge
it, requires brains." -Mary Pettibone Poole

I guess we don't usually hear from or about the people who manage well
without meds. We just hear about those who get into trouble or worse. Makes
sense: just like we see more complaints than kudos on a forum for users of
any particular product. The folks who are doing fine are busy doing fine.

I'm glad to hear it can work that way for people with BPD, too.

--Heidi
Plattsburgh (UPstate) NY

http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b
--

"NightMist" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:46:44 GMT, the black rose
wrote:

hfw wrote:
That med balancing act is SO difficult with BPD. Aside from the
chemicals
themselves, so often when people are at one pole they don't think they
need
the meds. My heart goes out to them, and to the people who love them.

They really need to find better treatment for BPD. My brother was
murdered by his BPD girlfriend when she was on a manic high and had gone
off her meds. So you can see it goes way farther than just the effects
on the person with BPD themselves -- I wish it were somehow mandatory
for them to stay on their medication. I don't know how you'd legislate
or enforce that, but perhaps it's understandable that I would wish there
could be a way, since I'll never get my brother back because his
girlfriend went off her meds and there was no one to make her take them.


Oh dear gods NO!

I have sympathy for your loss, but you have no concept what you are
wishing for.

Yes there are people who go off the end of the pier and do very bad
things when they go off their meds.

There are also people like me, I am functioning and indeed function
better without meds than with in most situations. With the meds I
become impaired to the point that I cannot do, and my whole self is
wrapped in doing. The only time I ever approached actively suicidal
was when overwhelmed by despair at the idea of taking these drugs
forever and never being able to do anything worth doing, or think
clearly again. I chose to quit the drugs rather than jumping off a
bridge or something.

And in NY Kendra's law says that persons with a mental health
diagnosis can be mandated by the courts to follow treatment
recomendations. Really the law is rather superflouous because there
are courts in the state could mandate that anyway. Very scarey for a
person with a diagnosis.
Here is a magazine article talking about it.

http://www.narpa.org/city.limits.htm

Better treatment would be good.
Yes I am an egomaniacal, constantly in motion, freaky looking critter
that talks to herself. This is unusual how? The world is actually
full of people like me, and once in a while we freak the mundanes, but
don't generally do anything particularly bad. It is the people that
swing from one extreme to another that get scarey.

NightMist
--
"To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge
it, requires brains." -Mary Pettibone Poole

For sure.

I've seen the same thing, and I've supported people who have chosen to stop
dialysis knowing that it meant certain death. I've supported people who have
chosen not to do chemo or radiation when it would buy them neither comfort
nor any time with what they considered decent quality of life. And my
sixteen-year-old cousin shot himself in the head.

I think the religious authorities used the "not in their right mind" thing
as a technicality, a loophole, that would let them permit what had been
forbidden in order to be more sensitive to the needs of those who were left
behind.

--Heidi
Plattsburgh (UPstate) NY

http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b

--

"NightMist" wrote in message
...

There is suicide and there is suicide.

When our kiri's stepdad, who had Lou Gerhigs disease, decided it was
time to turn off the ventilator, it never even occured to think of it
as suicide. Though I suppose technically it was. I remember back
before antiretrovirals became available and indeed knowledge about how
to treat AIDS patiants was almost nonexistant, some friends chose to
end things before it got horrible, others held on as long as they
could hoping for a breakthrough. I was not about to pass judgement on
either, both decisions took a great deal of courage.

Then there are people who just up and end it all for reasons that no
one understands. Was it courage or cowardice? Since we weren't in
their heads when they did it, who knows?

NightMist
never underestimate the terrors that live in someone else's head

Wow Lisa. All I can say is Wow!!! I would be willing to bet that you don't
avoid all BP people the way you think you do. They can be just as normal as
the next person. So how do you know that you are avoiding them? I have
worked in a mental health facility with severely mentally ill patients and I
can tell you, often times you would never know that they are mentally ill. I
also speak from experience as the mother of a BP son. For most of his
teenage years we fought with him to take his meds. He hated the side effects
and the way they made him feel. We went through his violent rages with him
but we also went through his wonderful, loving times too. For years there
would be weeks at a time that it became a daily routine for him to throw me
around or throw me down on the furniture or grab me by the throat and slam
me against the wall or come at me with a knife or something. I never knew
what to expect from him. We dealt with his suicide attempts and the anguish
of never knowing when he would succeed. But not once, NEVER, EVER did I even
consider "escaping" or abandoning him. I don't mean escaping the immediate
danger. Yeah I had to protect myself the best way I could. But I would have
never abandoned him.

He has not been on meds for about 4 years now and is doing terrific. He has
learned to manage the highs and lows and deal with them. He recognizes the
signs of each and acts accordingly. You would never know that he is BP
unless you got to know him intimately and learned his history. He holds down
a full time job, has a son that he is a wonderful father too and manages an
up and coming band among other things. He leads a very normal life. I think
it's sad to avoid a certain group of people just because of one bad
experience. Why not learn more about the condition and how to deal with it
so you don't have to avoid them? Frankly I find it's that kind of attitude
that makes life more difficult for mentally ill people and keeps treatment
in the dark ages for them. People want to avoid them rather than learn about
them and try to understand them so they can be helped.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be so blunt but in so many of your posts lately
you have been so scathing about things and people and this just really hit a
tender spot with me. Especially after reading this thread. Your
"stereotypical" comment about Arkansas was another one that hit me wrong.
Yes, Arkansas is my home state and I love it. Maybe you should take the time
to learn more about the people or things that you are criticizing before you
make judgments on them.

--
Mika who is now stepping off the soapbox and apologizing if I offended
anyone.
http://community.webshots.com/user/mikasdrms


"lisa skeen" wrote in message
nk.net...
I had been avoiding this topic; seems macabre for this NG as well as the
season in general. However, I did read this one. My first GF was bipolar.
Her mother was a nurse. GF wouldn't take the meds b/c they made her gain
weight and her mother made comments about it. Things got really ugly; she
was a nasty person w/o the meds, high or low. I escaped, and now avoid BP
people like the plague.

L

"the black rose" wrote in message
...
hfw wrote:
That med balancing act is SO difficult with BPD. Aside from the
chemicals themselves, so often when people are at one pole they don't
think they need the meds. My heart goes out to them, and to the people
who love them.

They really need to find better treatment for BPD. My brother was
murdered by his BPD girlfriend when she was on a manic high and had gone
off her meds. So you can see it goes way farther than just the effects
on the person with BPD themselves -- I wish it were somehow mandatory for
them to stay on their medication. I don't know how you'd legislate or
enforce that, but perhaps it's understandable that I would wish there
could be a way, since I'll never get my brother back because his
girlfriend went off her meds and there was no one to make her take them.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

-------- __o
----- -\. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

There is no place on earth - for me - like Arkansas. When I first set
foot in this state something in my heart begin to sing and I just never feel
right any where else.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Mika" wrote in message
...
Wow Lisa. All I can say is Wow!!! I would be willing to bet that you don't
avoid all BP people the way you think you do. They can be just as normal
as the next person. So how do you know that you are avoiding them? I have
worked in a mental health facility with severely mentally ill patients and
I can tell you, often times you would never know that they are mentally
ill. I also speak from experience as the mother of a BP son. For most of
his teenage years we fought with him to take his meds. He hated the side
effects and the way they made him feel. We went through his violent rages
with him but we also went through his wonderful, loving times too. For
years there would be weeks at a time that it became a daily routine for
him to throw me around or throw me down on the furniture or grab me by the
throat and slam me against the wall or come at me with a knife or
something. I never knew what to expect from him. We dealt with his suicide
attempts and the anguish of never knowing when he would succeed. But not
once, NEVER, EVER did I even consider "escaping" or abandoning him. I
don't mean escaping the immediate danger. Yeah I had to protect myself the
best way I could. But I would have never abandoned him.

He has not been on meds for about 4 years now and is doing terrific. He
has learned to manage the highs and lows and deal with them. He recognizes
the signs of each and acts accordingly. You would never know that he is BP
unless you got to know him intimately and learned his history. He holds
down a full time job, has a son that he is a wonderful father too and
manages an up and coming band among other things. He leads a very normal
life. I think it's sad to avoid a certain group of people just because of
one bad experience. Why not learn more about the condition and how to deal
with it so you don't have to avoid them? Frankly I find it's that kind of
attitude that makes life more difficult for mentally ill people and keeps
treatment in the dark ages for them. People want to avoid them rather than
learn about them and try to understand them so they can be helped.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be so blunt but in so many of your posts
lately you have been so scathing about things and people and this just
really hit a tender spot with me. Especially after reading this thread.
Your "stereotypical" comment about Arkansas was another one that hit me
wrong. Yes, Arkansas is my home state and I love it. Maybe you should take
the time to learn more about the people or things that you are criticizing
before you make judgments on them.

--
Mika who is now stepping off the soapbox and apologizing if I offended
anyone.
http://community.webshots.com/user/mikasdrms


"lisa skeen" wrote in message
nk.net...
I had been avoiding this topic; seems macabre for this NG as well as the
season in general. However, I did read this one. My first GF was
bipolar. Her mother was a nurse. GF wouldn't take the meds b/c they made
her gain weight and her mother made comments about it. Things got really
ugly; she was a nasty person w/o the meds, high or low. I escaped, and
now avoid BP people like the plague.

L

"the black rose" wrote in message
...
hfw wrote:
That med balancing act is SO difficult with BPD. Aside from the
chemicals themselves, so often when people are at one pole they don't
think they need the meds. My heart goes out to them, and to the people
who love them.

They really need to find better treatment for BPD. My brother was
murdered by his BPD girlfriend when she was on a manic high and had gone
off her meds. So you can see it goes way farther than just the effects
on the person with BPD themselves -- I wish it were somehow mandatory
for them to stay on their medication. I don't know how you'd legislate
or enforce that, but perhaps it's understandable that I would wish there
could be a way, since I'll never get my brother back because his
girlfriend went off her meds and there was no one to make her take them.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

-------- __o
----- -\. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

Nope! Father Mike says that we have several "suicides" in our Catholic
Cemetary. I know that the Pollock is buried there and because of his
decision to come off the ventilator knowing he would die and his DNR
directive he could have been lossely defined as a suicide. Father Mike says
that only God knows what is in a persons heart at the time of death.
Apparently, the American Catholic Church has different opinions on this
issue than the European Catholics according to Father Mike. As far as I
know the only requirement to be buried in our Catholic Cemetary is
membership.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"hfw" wrote in message
...
My understanding is that both the Catholic Church and the majority of
Jewish authorities have reversed rulings that did not allow people who had
committed suicide to be buried in consecrated ground on this very basis.
They are, at least at the very moment, considered to be in such a state
mentally or emotionally that they cannot be held responsible, so therefore
cannot be denied honors.

Jewish law even used to forbid funerals in the case of suicide, although
that practice was not based on Torah or Talmud. I don't know about canon
(Catholic) law in this case.

I would guess that in both faiths the initial motivation for change was to
provide a measure of comfort and healing for the survivors.

--Heidi
Plattsburgh (UPstate) NY

http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b
--

"Dixie Sugar" wrote in message
...
It is hard for me to believe that someone who commits suicide is in their
right mind.