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Copper inlays



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 5th 08, 05:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
The Splanns
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Posts: 1
Default Copper inlays

Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika
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  #2  
Old March 5th 08, 05:47 AM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
D Kat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Copper inlays

I have used copper in pit fires which are really low temperature and the
copper just burns away. The oriental pieces that looked like they had gold
inlay repairing broken pottery were actually done with lacquer (hazardous to
the health as it turned out). I think if this is what you want, you would
fire the piece first to cone 6 and then do a low fire enamel technique...
Just a guess mind you.


"The Splanns" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper act in
cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or even a
reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika


  #3  
Old March 5th 08, 02:41 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Bob Masta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Copper inlays

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:20:30 -0600, "The Splanns"
wrote:

Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has =
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper =
act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or =
even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika


Copper won't survive at cone 6. It melts at 1984F (1084C), which is
roughly cone 03, but it oxidizes like crazy long before that. If you
were making flat tiles, you *might* be able to get it up to melting by
covering it with a protective flux, but I imagine this would take some
amount of experimentation to get working.

This seems to be generally true of all common metals in oxidizing
atmospheres... they oxidize long before they get to melting.
I don't know if you could get decent melting in a fuel kiln fired in
reduction, but I bet it wouldn't be easy... you'd have to keep it in
reduction throughout the whole firing cycle.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!
  #4  
Old March 5th 08, 03:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Susie Thompson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Copper inlays

In message , Bob Masta
writes
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:20:30 -0600, "The Splanns"
wrote:

Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has =
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper =
act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or =
even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika


Copper won't survive at cone 6. It melts at 1984F (1084C), which is
roughly cone 03, but it oxidizes like crazy long before that. If you
were making flat tiles, you *might* be able to get it up to melting by
covering it with a protective flux, but I imagine this would take some
amount of experimentation to get working.

This seems to be generally true of all common metals in oxidizing
atmospheres... they oxidize long before they get to melting.
I don't know if you could get decent melting in a fuel kiln fired in
reduction, but I bet it wouldn't be easy... you'd have to keep it in
reduction throughout the whole firing cycle.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!



This is a question I've often wondered about for many years and never
got around to asking. Glad it's turned up now. Given that the copper
oxidises long before melting, would it leave sufficient traces of oxide
at lower earthenware temperatures when it could, maybe, be used as glaze
colourant as part of design. Would it always produce copper oxide, or
would that depend on kiln atmosphere? Can any other metals be used in
this sort of way? Hope you can follow my thinking - I have a bad cold
and a fuddled brain. Thanks

Susie
--
Susie Thompson
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon
to email me replace "deadspam" with my name
  #5  
Old March 6th 08, 03:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Bob Masta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Copper inlays

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:55:54 +0000, Susie Thompson
wrote:

In message , Bob Masta
writes
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:20:30 -0600, "The Splanns"
wrote:

Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has =
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper =
act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or =
even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika


Copper won't survive at cone 6. It melts at 1984F (1084C), which is
roughly cone 03, but it oxidizes like crazy long before that. If you
were making flat tiles, you *might* be able to get it up to melting by
covering it with a protective flux, but I imagine this would take some
amount of experimentation to get working.

This seems to be generally true of all common metals in oxidizing
atmospheres... they oxidize long before they get to melting.
I don't know if you could get decent melting in a fuel kiln fired in
reduction, but I bet it wouldn't be easy... you'd have to keep it in
reduction throughout the whole firing cycle.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!



This is a question I've often wondered about for many years and never
got around to asking. Glad it's turned up now. Given that the copper
oxidises long before melting, would it leave sufficient traces of oxide
at lower earthenware temperatures when it could, maybe, be used as glaze
colourant as part of design. Would it always produce copper oxide, or
would that depend on kiln atmosphere? Can any other metals be used in
this sort of way? Hope you can follow my thinking - I have a bad cold
and a fuddled brain. Thanks


I only have personal experience with oxidizing (electric) kilns.
I think you could probably get this to work, and it might make
an interesting effect, at least for non-functional ware. The copper
or iron (steel) that I've fired invariably oxidize to black, but I
haven't put them next to a glaze. I'd expect the oxides to bleed
into the glaze at the edges of the original metal, perhaps
giving a green halo around the black copper oxide lump.
Might be fun to experiment with different base glazes to see
which promotes the most bleeding.

If you covered the metal with the glaze application, it should
reduce the oxidation when the glaze becomes fluid enough
to block oxygen from getting to the metal. So there may be
some interesting effects with different thicknesses, as well
as different glaze melting temperatures. Try flat tiles at
first, so you can over-fire the glaze and not worry about
it running off the piece.

And please report back with your results!

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!
  #6  
Old March 6th 08, 04:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Susie Thompson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Copper inlays

In message , Bob Masta
writes
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:55:54 +0000, Susie Thompson
wrote:

In message , Bob Masta
writes
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:20:30 -0600, "The Splanns"
wrote:

Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has =
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper =
act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or =
even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika

Copper won't survive at cone 6. It melts at 1984F (1084C), which is
roughly cone 03, but it oxidizes like crazy long before that. If you
were making flat tiles, you *might* be able to get it up to melting by
covering it with a protective flux, but I imagine this would take some
amount of experimentation to get working.

This seems to be generally true of all common metals in oxidizing
atmospheres... they oxidize long before they get to melting.
I don't know if you could get decent melting in a fuel kiln fired in
reduction, but I bet it wouldn't be easy... you'd have to keep it in
reduction throughout the whole firing cycle.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!



This is a question I've often wondered about for many years and never
got around to asking. Glad it's turned up now. Given that the copper
oxidises long before melting, would it leave sufficient traces of oxide
at lower earthenware temperatures when it could, maybe, be used as glaze
colourant as part of design. Would it always produce copper oxide, or
would that depend on kiln atmosphere? Can any other metals be used in
this sort of way? Hope you can follow my thinking - I have a bad cold
and a fuddled brain. Thanks


I only have personal experience with oxidizing (electric) kilns.
I think you could probably get this to work, and it might make
an interesting effect, at least for non-functional ware. The copper
or iron (steel) that I've fired invariably oxidize to black, but I
haven't put them next to a glaze. I'd expect the oxides to bleed
into the glaze at the edges of the original metal, perhaps
giving a green halo around the black copper oxide lump.
Might be fun to experiment with different base glazes to see
which promotes the most bleeding.

If you covered the metal with the glaze application, it should
reduce the oxidation when the glaze becomes fluid enough
to block oxygen from getting to the metal. So there may be
some interesting effects with different thicknesses, as well
as different glaze melting temperatures. Try flat tiles at
first, so you can over-fire the glaze and not worry about
it running off the piece.

And please report back with your results!

Hi Bob

I don't make anything useful at all, so no problem there. I'm not
working at the moment but will give this a go when I get going again.
There may also be some ironstone clay which I can dig out of the ground
on a friend's farm, so that's going to be something to play around with.
What might the firing range of ironstone be?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Susie, Isle of Arran, Scotland
--
Susie Thompson
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon
to email me replace "deadspam" with my name
  #7  
Old March 6th 08, 04:15 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Jake Loddington
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Copper inlays

In message , The Splanns
writes
Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would
copper*act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice
or even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika


I had some success a few years ago with the application of very fine
copper wire in semi-random patterns on to a white glaze.

I needed very fine wi I would guess about 36 swg. I got this by
stripping strands out of some extra-flexible cable as used for testgear
leads.

Spray the glaze; when dry, stick the wire on using CMC to help it stay
in place. Fire to cone 7. The copper migrates to give interesting green
trails.

If I knew how to do it, I'd put an image up, but I understand that
simply attaching one is frowned upon.

Jake Loddington,POULTON-LE-FYLDE, Lancashire, U.K.
  #8  
Old March 6th 08, 07:36 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
charlie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Copper inlays


"Susie Thompson" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Masta
writes
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:55:54 +0000, Susie Thompson
wrote:

In message , Bob Masta
writes
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:20:30 -0600, "The Splanns"
wrote:

Hi everyone!
I've been reading the post for some time and I have a question too. Has
=
anyone ever made anything with copper inlay? How exactly would copper =
act in cone 6 glaze firing? I would greatly appreciate your advice or =
even a reference to where I can find more information on a subject.
Thanks,
Veronika

Copper won't survive at cone 6. It melts at 1984F (1084C), which is
roughly cone 03, but it oxidizes like crazy long before that. If you
were making flat tiles, you *might* be able to get it up to melting by
covering it with a protective flux, but I imagine this would take some
amount of experimentation to get working.

This seems to be generally true of all common metals in oxidizing
atmospheres... they oxidize long before they get to melting.
I don't know if you could get decent melting in a fuel kiln fired in
reduction, but I bet it wouldn't be easy... you'd have to keep it in
reduction throughout the whole firing cycle.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!


This is a question I've often wondered about for many years and never
got around to asking. Glad it's turned up now. Given that the copper
oxidises long before melting, would it leave sufficient traces of oxide
at lower earthenware temperatures when it could, maybe, be used as glaze
colourant as part of design. Would it always produce copper oxide, or
would that depend on kiln atmosphere? Can any other metals be used in
this sort of way? Hope you can follow my thinking - I have a bad cold
and a fuddled brain. Thanks


I only have personal experience with oxidizing (electric) kilns.
I think you could probably get this to work, and it might make
an interesting effect, at least for non-functional ware. The copper
or iron (steel) that I've fired invariably oxidize to black, but I
haven't put them next to a glaze. I'd expect the oxides to bleed
into the glaze at the edges of the original metal, perhaps
giving a green halo around the black copper oxide lump.
Might be fun to experiment with different base glazes to see
which promotes the most bleeding.

If you covered the metal with the glaze application, it should
reduce the oxidation when the glaze becomes fluid enough
to block oxygen from getting to the metal. So there may be
some interesting effects with different thicknesses, as well
as different glaze melting temperatures. Try flat tiles at
first, so you can over-fire the glaze and not worry about
it running off the piece.

And please report back with your results!

Hi Bob

I don't make anything useful at all, so no problem there. I'm not working
at the moment but will give this a go when I get going again. There may
also be some ironstone clay which I can dig out of the ground on a
friend's farm, so that's going to be something to play around with. What
might the firing range of ironstone be?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Susie, Isle of Arran, Scotland
--
Susie Thompson
If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon
to email me replace "deadspam" with my name


i have experience with copper during glass fusing, around the 1500F temp
range. if you coat copper with a clear ferro glaze or a borax film, you'll
tend to have shiny copper in that range. uncoated, you can get anything from
black to green to pink, depending upon how much O2 gets to it when it's
heating. if you can isolate it from O2, you tend to get more coppery colors.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/ChaniArts


  #9  
Old March 7th 08, 02:31 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Bob Masta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 96
Default Copper inlays

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:14:24 +0000, Susie Thompson
wrote:


Hi Bob

I don't make anything useful at all, so no problem there. I'm not
working at the moment but will give this a go when I get going again.
There may also be some ironstone clay which I can dig out of the ground
on a friend's farm, so that's going to be something to play around with.
What might the firing range of ironstone be?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Susie, Isle of Arran, Scotland
--


Susie, I don't know about the firing range of ironstone clay.
Is it soft and plastic, like normal clay? Or full of grit?
A lot depends on the "clay" part, as far as firing range goes.

With the local clays around here (Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA)
I find that they would make decent low-fire bodies, except they
tend to be full of lime bits that cause the infamous "lime pops"
after firing. They can be sieved out, but that's a lot of work
for body clay, which you use a lot of. On the other hand, they
make *wonderful* brown glazes at cone 6, and sieving that smaller
amount is no big deal... especially since I tend to sieve most glazes
anyway.

The color is typically "bean-pot brown" and I think this clay must be
pretty close to Albany slip.

Anyway, assuming that you are mostly interested in using the ironstone
clay as a glaze, I'd suggest sieving at 80-100 mesh and applying it as
a glaze over bisqued stoneware test tile. Then fire at your desired
target cone and see how it looks. Based on my experience, cone 6
would be a good choice... but the ironstone may have other ideas.

If the tile looks like it got really runny, and you still want to use
it at that cone, try glazing simple test pieces with catchers under
then in case the glaze runs off. If it's too runny, you can try
adding kaolin (or your regular body clay, sieved).

In the unlikely circumstance that the glaze didn't melt at cone 6,
you might have a suitable body clay. Just remember that digging
and processing enough clay for much body use can be a real chore.
And if you are going to cover it up with glazes anyway, there's not
much point except sentimental reasons (which are fine, but only go
so far). But a glaze clay not only goes farther for less effort, it
is also visible on the outside of the piece and works great for
sentimental purposes as well.

Best regards,






If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon
to email me replace "deadspam" with my name


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!
  #10  
Old March 7th 08, 08:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
Eddie Daughton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Copper inlays

Bob Masta wrote:
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:14:24 +0000, Susie Thompson
wrote:


Hi Bob

I don't make anything useful at all, so no problem there. I'm not
working at the moment but will give this a go when I get going again.
There may also be some ironstone clay which I can dig out of the ground
on a friend's farm, so that's going to be something to play around with.
What might the firing range of ironstone be?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Susie, Isle of Arran, Scotland
--


Susie, I don't know about the firing range of ironstone clay.
Is it soft and plastic, like normal clay? Or full of grit?
A lot depends on the "clay" part, as far as firing range goes.

With the local clays around here (Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA)
I find that they would make decent low-fire bodies, except they
tend to be full of lime bits that cause the infamous "lime pops"
after firing. They can be sieved out, but that's a lot of work
for body clay, which you use a lot of. On the other hand, they
make *wonderful* brown glazes at cone 6, and sieving that smaller
amount is no big deal... especially since I tend to sieve most glazes
anyway.

The color is typically "bean-pot brown" and I think this clay must be
pretty close to Albany slip.

Anyway, assuming that you are mostly interested in using the ironstone
clay as a glaze, I'd suggest sieving at 80-100 mesh and applying it as
a glaze over bisqued stoneware test tile. Then fire at your desired
target cone and see how it looks. Based on my experience, cone 6
would be a good choice... but the ironstone may have other ideas.

If the tile looks like it got really runny, and you still want to use
it at that cone, try glazing simple test pieces with catchers under
then in case the glaze runs off. If it's too runny, you can try
adding kaolin (or your regular body clay, sieved).

In the unlikely circumstance that the glaze didn't melt at cone 6,
you might have a suitable body clay. Just remember that digging
and processing enough clay for much body use can be a real chore.
And if you are going to cover it up with glazes anyway, there's not
much point except sentimental reasons (which are fine, but only go
so far). But a glaze clay not only goes farther for less effort, it
is also visible on the outside of the piece and works great for
sentimental purposes as well.

Best regards,






If you can't stand the heat, don't tickle the dragon
to email me replace "deadspam" with my name


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, FREE Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

O' course you could always once fire it (if it's got lime) get it above
cone 6 and the lime melts and forms part of the body, that's why
Stoneware (once fired) never suffers from the dreaded white pits...
Hugs
Eddie
 




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