What would you do?

Try putting it in writing too - like a tally sheet / worksheet.

eg - fabric - $350 (might as well splurge)
- thread - $100
- time - $priceless

ask her if she really wanted to spend that much.
--
Sharon from Melbourne Australia (Queen of Down Under)
http://www.geocities.com/shazrules/craft.html (takes awhile to load)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shazrules/my_photos (same as website but
quicker)
"Debbie" wrote in message
news:lbKGg.21318$u1.5207@trnddc05...
I'd tell her what it would *really* cost to make a quilt

count:
materials
time x minimum wage
electricity costs (for sewing machine/lights/iron)
notions

then ask if she is prepared to pay that for her bosses gifts.

note: I usually say it's 800 euros for a king quilt and that's only for
the
materials - most people go silent and don't mention it again LOL
--
Jessamy
In The Netherlands
Take out: _I love the colour_ to reply.
www.geocities.com/jessamy_thompson
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jes...pson/my_photos


Yes, I need a comeback like this. I had a complete stranger in a chat room
ask me if I would send her one. I didn't even know her. First time in the
chat room under the name "Quilter". Needless to say I changed that name
immediately!!!

Debbie

In message , Patti
writes

There is a paradox in that she is asking you to make these quilts for
her bosses (and her - again) and yet she has told you she thinks it is
a 'cheap idea'. She must think highly of your work at some level.

That's interesting, that's not how I read it. I got the impression she
thought a quilt was a "cheap" (her own words) "homemade" gift. She's
ready to put hers in a yard sale having owned it less than a year, but
she thinks it'd be a good cheap way to give a gift to her bosses for
around £20-£30 each (Debbi's estimate). She has no appreciation whatever
of the cost, time, skill or love involved and I certainly would not give
her a "hand-made" gift again if she were my MIL. I'm sure she'll be much
happier with earrings or bubble bath, and Debbi will be happier too.

You have to have an idea of how the person asking will react, but I have
had good results with talking about costs for materials and the time
involved. I don't cost my time. This has put off a lot of people who
want me to "run up" a quilt for them when they think it takes me an
evening or two and costs maybe a few tens of pounds. This is a common
belief, and I find it also applies to other crafts, such as knitting.
Pick a sweater from a pattern book and chances are the yarn alone will
cost upwards of £50 and the time involved could be almost anything as
long as it's a looong looong time. Not that I ever pay that for yarn - I
haunt the sales, I recycle old clothes, and I am able to adjust patterns
to suit the yarn I have.

If I asked a favour of a neighbour and then found it was a much more
complicated deal than I had thought - e.g. if I asked someone to trim my
hedge and it turned out they had broken their leg, or if I asked to
borrow someone's blender and it turned out it was a valuable antique, I
would of course withdraw my request, apologise for not realising the
implications, and the only bad feeling would be my own for asking for
something I thought was small but it turned out I was asking for
something very large indeed. There would be absolutely no need for the
other person to feel bad, especially if they didn't refuse my request,
but simply illuminated my ignorance.

I think we all need to practice saying "No". It's a little word,
shouldn't be hard. Everyone, sitting in front of your computers right
no, look straight forward and say in a clear voice "No". And don't say
"sorry" after.
--
Mel Rimmer
www.bean-sprouts.blogspot.com

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:05:06 -0500, Debbie wrote
(in article SrJGg.27251$uV.15838@trnddc08):

Hi all,

Just thought I'd get some opinions on a problem that has come up.

When people find out you make quilts they all want one. Problem is, I don't
mind making relatives one for free, but my MIL has asked me to make her
bosses one each (she has two bosses) for Christmas. She says she will pay me
for it. If I charged by the time and effort I put into it, she couldn't pay
me for it. I know she's thinking $20-50.

Another thing that has irked me is that I made my MIL one in January and she
informed me (the same day she asked me to make her bosses one and to make
her a bedspread and matching shams for her bed) that she is going to put the
one I made for her in January in a yard sale. I said, "Don't sell it in a
yard sale, I'll buy it back." And she said, "Well, it's faded."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do I get across to her that this stuff takes a lot of time??? She told
me that making quilts for people at Christmas was a *cheap* way to give
presents, too. I don't think she is trying to be mean, but she has no idea
the time and effort that goes into this stuff. Hubby has somewhat of an
idea of how much time and effort I put into it, but he is real protective of
his mother, so I have to approach this delicately. LOL

Thanks for any help and advice you can give me.

Debbie



I had a friend like that, so I told her I didn't have time right at the
moment, but I'd teach her to do it herself. After one lesson, there were no
more requests from her.

Maureen

Of course, this is also the friend who fired me as a bridesmaid when I
refused to sew favor bags for her wedding.

Wow this is a wonderful post. Of course I haven't made a quilt yet
but I still have a hard time with the word NO. Funny my sister's do
not. But I have a hard time with things like, Will you come work on
my computer, which happens about weekly, will you do this or that at
church, when I know I don't have the time, will you make me a
meatloaf, mine just aren't as good as your's. I need to learn NO
also.

Jacqueline

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:38:07 +0100, M Rimmer
wrote:

In message , Patti
writes

There is a paradox in that she is asking you to make these quilts for
her bosses (and her - again) and yet she has told you she thinks it is
a 'cheap idea'. She must think highly of your work at some level.

That's interesting, that's not how I read it. I got the impression she
thought a quilt was a "cheap" (her own words) "homemade" gift. She's
ready to put hers in a yard sale having owned it less than a year, but
she thinks it'd be a good cheap way to give a gift to her bosses for
around £20-£30 each (Debbi's estimate). She has no appreciation whatever
of the cost, time, skill or love involved and I certainly would not give
her a "hand-made" gift again if she were my MIL. I'm sure she'll be much
happier with earrings or bubble bath, and Debbi will be happier too.

You have to have an idea of how the person asking will react, but I have
had good results with talking about costs for materials and the time
involved. I don't cost my time. This has put off a lot of people who
want me to "run up" a quilt for them when they think it takes me an
evening or two and costs maybe a few tens of pounds. This is a common
belief, and I find it also applies to other crafts, such as knitting.
Pick a sweater from a pattern book and chances are the yarn alone will
cost upwards of £50 and the time involved could be almost anything as
long as it's a looong looong time. Not that I ever pay that for yarn - I
haunt the sales, I recycle old clothes, and I am able to adjust patterns
to suit the yarn I have.

If I asked a favour of a neighbour and then found it was a much more
complicated deal than I had thought - e.g. if I asked someone to trim my
hedge and it turned out they had broken their leg, or if I asked to
borrow someone's blender and it turned out it was a valuable antique, I
would of course withdraw my request, apologise for not realising the
implications, and the only bad feeling would be my own for asking for
something I thought was small but it turned out I was asking for
something very large indeed. There would be absolutely no need for the
other person to feel bad, especially if they didn't refuse my request,
but simply illuminated my ignorance.

I think we all need to practice saying "No". It's a little word,
shouldn't be hard. Everyone, sitting in front of your computers right
no, look straight forward and say in a clear voice "No". And don't say
"sorry" after.

Jacqueline
http://www.mountain-breeze.com
Recipes and other fun things

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:11:26 +0100, Kate Dicey
wrote:

Debbie wrote:

Gosh, I feel better. I felt like a whiney butt for even grumbling about it,
but when she said she was going to put that one in the yard sale and it
isn't even a year old yet, my blood pressure hit the roof!!! It was obvious
she had no appreciation for my time and effort.

(snip)

What wuld you all charge for a log cabin quilt that size -- roughly? I was
thinking $200, but that sounds like a lot. ex. 30 hours x 5.00 an hour + $50
in materials.

$5 an hour is waaaaay too low for such skilled work. $20 would be
closer to reality.

At present $20/hour plus is exactly what I charge for garment sewing.
Here is a repost (updated to reflect current charges) of a reply I
made in a fashion group:

***************************************
My basic rules include never, ever, start pricing at cost of
materials, unless it's a 100% donation to a charity auction.
There are costs beyond materials that you don't usually stop and
consider. You want to cover those or you find yourself loseing money
and having a hard time figuring out where it went.


For clothing, I usually run about like this:


Alterations and repairs, round time to the nearest quarter hour and
charge $20/hour plus the cost of any materials used (other than
thread, that gets ridiculous unless it's a huge major remake of
something monstrous).
Same deal for plain sewing from a purchased pattern but multiply the
cost of materials by 2.5. However, if the
pattern company is on my list of incompetant pattern makers, I charge
extra for PITA work (usually by throwing $25-$50 on the total
estimate)


Total custom design, or working from a pattern that is more than 2
sizes off from the desired result is purely by negotiation, but no
less than the estimated cost of materials times 2.5 plus [the
estimated time it will take in hours, _including the design time_,
times 5]
Custom design does often come out cheaper, but it is actually easier
for me than doing things someone else's way.


The times that something goes out on comission, or to auction, I
always work the percentage for comission into the price as well as any

fees involved.

The multiplier on materials is to cover the odd bits I forget when
toting up the materials, and things that I buy in quantity and am too
lazy to tally individually. Backing buttons, more thread than I
counted on or thread bought on cones and used for several projects,
marking materials, needles and pins, paper, etc. This way I can just
tote up the fabric and any specialty items and not fret that I am
boggleing the math and hurting my finances. Things like handmade lace
go on a completely different pricing basis and then are added in.
****************************

I don't see why this kind of pricing should not work for quilts as
well as garments. You may want to alter the materials multiplier as
quilts take more fabric and fewer notions, depending on your process
of course.

While I do discount to reletives, if they want me to make something
for them to give as a gift to a friend of theirs the discount is not
so much.

You MIL is asking you to _work_. If you owned a TV store and had
given her a TV as a gift, would she then expect you to just hand over
a pair for her to give to strangers? Obviously with quilts the cost
would be just as much or more.
Either she needs to understand the expense, or your DH needs to have a
chat with her about trying to take undo advantage of his family.
My own mom is still utterly clueless about the time and expense of
handmade. She equates it with cheap and substandard. It may just be
that generation, or one of it's subcultures.

NightMist
--
The wolf that understands fire has much to eat.

Just say "I'm honored you asked, but no thank you." Then if she tries
arm-twisting, explain exactly how much a quilt costs to make (use LQS fabric
prices!) and how many hours of your time. Have this information prepared and
typed on a piece of paper. Be firm. Alternative idea: find a pro quiltmaker
online and print out a price list. Give MIL the address and kindly suggest
that she could purchase her gifts there. Another alternative: agree to make
a couple of simple tops and give them to her along with the address of a pro
machine quilter. Then MIL can organize the rest.
Roberta in D


"Debbie" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:SrJGg.27251$uV.15838@trnddc08...
Hi all,

Just thought I'd get some opinions on a problem that has come up.

When people find out you make quilts they all want one. Problem is, I
don't mind making relatives one for free, but my MIL has asked me to make
her bosses one each (she has two bosses) for Christmas. She says she will
pay me for it. If I charged by the time and effort I put into it, she
couldn't pay me for it. I know she's thinking $20-50.

Another thing that has irked me is that I made my MIL one in January and
she informed me (the same day she asked me to make her bosses one and to
make her a bedspread and matching shams for her bed) that she is going to
put the one I made for her in January in a yard sale. I said, "Don't sell
it in a yard sale, I'll buy it back." And she said, "Well, it's faded."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do I get across to her that this stuff takes a lot of time??? She told
me that making quilts for people at Christmas was a *cheap* way to give
presents, too. I don't think she is trying to be mean, but she has no
idea the time and effort that goes into this stuff. Hubby has somewhat of
an idea of how much time and effort I put into it, but he is real
protective of his mother, so I have to approach this delicately. LOL

Thanks for any help and advice you can give me.

Debbie

Good grief, you are selling yourself cheap! How much does your electrician
or plumber charge per hour? Aren't you worth even half that? (I'm worth lots
more than a plumber! :-)
800 euros is close to $1000. (Most fabric for patchwork is imported from the
USA, plus sales tax ranging 15-25% depending on country.)
You need to tell MIL exactly what you told us: family comes first! She can't
argue with that!
Roberta in D

"Debbie" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:S9KGg.21317$u1.15027@trnddc05...
Gosh, I feel better. I felt like a whiney butt for even grumbling about
it, but when she said she was going to put that one in the yard sale and
it isn't even a year old yet, my blood pressure hit the roof!!! It was
obvious she had no appreciation for my time and effort.

So far I've been making wall hangings to use as throws, they are about
68x68. I don't have a clue what to charge. I would estimate about 30???
hours to put together and stitch in the ditch and stippling and all that
good stuff. And maybe $30-50 for all materials.

Sorry I can't convert euros. How much is 800 euros?

I was hoping this was a common occurence, so I thank you all for answering
and so quickly, too!

As it is, I haven't even made my sister or other daughter or sister in
laws one yet, and MIL wants one for complete strangers. I can't get all
that done before Christmas and family comes first!!! I have no backbone is
the problem.

What wuld you all charge for a log cabin quilt that size -- roughly? I
was thinking $200, but that sounds like a lot. ex. 30 hours x 5.00 an hour
+ $50 in materials.

Debbie

Darlin', you need to practice! Every morning before you brush your teeth,
look yourself in the eye, smile sweetly, and say No, I don't have the time
or the inclination, but thanks for thinking of me. Repeat several times.
After a few days, it will become automatic.
Roberta in D

"Debbie" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:SbKGg.21319$u1.10906@trnddc05...

"maryd" mardor@*net wrote in message
...
I would be upfront about the costs and include your time. I would also
tell
her that you don't have time nor inclination to make a spread, shams, etc
having so recently made her the quilt.


Ohhhh, Mary, if only I had the nerve. LOL

Debbie

In message l.net,
Maureen Wozniak writes

I had a friend like that, so I told her I didn't have time right at the
moment, but I'd teach her to do it herself. After one lesson, there were no
more requests from her.

I like this approach too!

Of course, this is also the friend who fired me as a bridesmaid when I
refused to sew favor bags for her wedding.

I think you probably had a lucky escape there.
--
Mel Rimmer
www.bean-sprouts.blogspot.com

In article SrJGg.27251$uV.15838@trnddc08,
"Debbie" wrote:

When people find out you make quilts they all want one. Problem is, I don't
mind making relatives one for free, but my MIL has asked me to make her
bosses one each (she has two bosses) for Christmas. She says she will pay me
for it. If I charged by the time and effort I put into it, she couldn't pay
me for it. I know she's thinking $20-50.

She wants to really impress her bosses but, as other have indicated,
either has no idea of the time and effort involved or is pretending not
to know in order to take advantage of your desire to please her (and
your husband). A little voice of experience in my head suspects the
latter.

Just thinking of it from another angle. Is it usual to give one's
bosses a gift worth that much money? Would they be
embarrassed/suspicious?

Do they give her a very expensive gift I wonder? I've never heard of
anyone getting much more than a box of chocolates from an employer, in
which case they would be put in a very awkward position!

If it was me, no way could I make even one quilt between now and
Christmas anyway, even if I wanted to (and she'd want it by the
beginning of December really). So there's a good excuse - just not
enough time. Smile sweetly and give her the name of a ready made
supplier!

(And tell her you love faded quilts!)
--
Sally at the Seaside ~~~~~~~~~~ (uk)
http://community.webshots.com/user/sallyswin