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#11
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
On Mar 1, 3:48*am, Jman wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:03*pm, "Don T" wrote: *http://www.original-diamonds.com/edu...e_diamonds.php *These are the browns that come from Australia. Several links on that page that I didn't explore but after several postings no-one seemed aware of the Australian browns and the marketing strategy which changed rather common and not so desirable brown stones into a good profit scheme. -- Don Thompson ...snip... Hmmmm, that is rather odd. *Some of the pricing structure of different vendors is waaay off the map, it seems. *I found a few of the 'raw diamonds' that I was looking for (locally) and they wanted an arm and part of a leg for them..... *I don't believe I'll be using them for a project in the very near future due to their present cost. *I think maybe I'll head on over the the Lapidary shop and pick up some different types of rock and stones to experiment with instead. *It's mind boggling how many stones, metals and rocks are available in those places now.... Cheers, /FC.... Hello Everyone, I just saw a topic on the Discovery Channel about the company in Fla. called Gemesis, which by the way has been producing manmade diamonds for a few years now, has found a way to produce a diamond that is 100 times harder then a natrual diamond. They can grow the new stone which is about five carats in six hours. These stones are going to be more suited for cutting tools and also electronic components, but it won't be long before manmade diamonds are able to compete in the market place. The company already grows a yellow diamond that is nondetectable from a real one. Diamond prices have been falling for about a year as Russia and Canada bring top quality stones into the market. It's only a mater of time before Debeers is going to lose it's monopoly on diamonds. Mark |
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#12
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:25:57 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Graver
wrote: Hello Everyone, I just saw a topic on the Discovery Channel about the company in Fla. called Gemesis, which by the way has been producing manmade diamonds for a few years now, has found a way to produce a diamond that is 100 times harder then a natrual diamond. They can grow the new stone which is about five carats in six hours. These stones are going to be more suited for cutting tools and also electronic components, but it won't be long before manmade diamonds are able to compete in the market place. The company already grows a yellow diamond that is nondetectable from a real one. Diamond prices have been falling for about a year as Russia and Canada bring top quality stones into the market. It's only a mater of time before Debeers is going to lose it's monopoly on diamonds. Mark Recheck your data. The Gemesis stones aren't 100 times harder than natural diamonds. They are slightly harder in use, and tougher (more difficult to chip). This may equate to many times longer life in cutting tools, but it's not quite that much harder in actual hardness (there is a difference between hardness and toughness.) The currently well known Gemesis stones, the yellow ones, are very much the same as natural diamonds in hardness and toughness, and are marketed to the jewelry trade. So far, they don't yet grow colorless ones economically (costs more than natural stones, still, to get them colorless, though that is likely to change) The stones you refer to as harder, are that way because, like the ones grown usually as thin films by Chemical vapor deposition, they are polycrystaline (lots of very tiny intergrown crystals, rather than one single one). Diamond varies in hardness and toughness according to the direction in the crystal, so a mass of many random orientated crystals looks like the hardest and toughest directions at the same time, in all directions. That accounts for the greater apparent hardness and toughness. But that 100 times factor is not quite accurate, I think. The basic crystal lattice structure of the synthetics remains the same, so the main difference is that polycrystaline nature. That's important, of course, for cutting tools. But do also keep in mind that the likelyhood of that type of stone being used for gems is minimal, simply because that greater hardness and toughness would mean they'd be almost impossible to cut and polish into gems by conventional means (which relies on the avarage harder nature of a random diamond grit over the crystal being cut, in the same way the polycrystaline stones are harder overall.) The effort and time needed to cut and polish polycrystaline stones, if they can grown them transparent at all, or at least economically, would likely offset the lower cost of the crystal. At least for the short term future. Who knows what will happen longer term. Don't discount the difficulty in growing colorless stones over the yellow ones. It's substantial, not a trivial difference. And for the record, both Russia and Canada are not new sources. They've been around for a while. It's easy to say DeBeers will loose it's monopoly, but that's been forcast for 20 years, and hasn't happened yet. Among other things, it's not in the interest of the independent sellers to compete too much with DeBeers, as that would lower the prices they can get for their own stones. DeBeers marketing models are changing to fit the times, and they are likely to remain a force for some time. Most likely, the effects of synthetic diamond will be strongest in the technical fields, such as electronics. There, the potential for the stuff is enormous, the pressure to develop such materials is strong, and the possible advances in electronics that such material might offer are substantial enough that such uses are likely to not only offer much more incentive than the gem market, but also much more potential financial gain for producers. Indeed, most of the research into synthetic diamond production seems aimed in that direction. By the way, that Super Diamonds show on the Discovery Channel was fun and interesting. But remember, like any media information source, there can be errors of ommision or fact, and the shows tend to present the points of view that will most advance their goal of being watched by a wide audience. That can skew the data a bit. Remember that the show producers, though they may be talking to scientists and researchers, are still TV producers and journalists, not scientists themselves. If they're talking to the owners of companies promoting their synthetics, guess what sort of point of view they're going to get... Discovery Channel is usually pretty good, and this show is no exception. But it's still journalism, with it's own agenda, And that agenda is not always a totally impartial examination of all sides of an issue. Peter |
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
By the way, that Super Diamonds show on the Discovery Channel was fun and
interesting. *But remember, like any media information source, there can be errors of ommision or fact, and the shows tend to present the points of view that will most advance their goal of being watched by a wide audience. *That can skew the data a bit. * Remember that the show producers, though they may be talking to scientists and researchers, are still TV producers and journalists, not scientists themselves. *If they're talking to the owners of companies promoting their synthetics, guess what sort of point of view they're going to get... * Discovery Channel is usually pretty good, and this show is no exception. *But it's still journalism, with it's own agenda, * And that agenda is not always a totally impartial examination of all sides of an issue. Peter Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they prove' to be true..untrue. Their show on whether or not the moon landings were real was a RIOT ! hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! I completely lost any respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show... /FC.... |
#14
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:00 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..."
wrote: Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they prove' to be true..untrue. Their show on whether or not the moon landings were real was a RIOT ! hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! I completely lost any respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show... /FC.... One of the aspects of being a literate consumer of media is understanding what a given show or information source IS, and what it IS NOT. Mythbusters is not news, or science. It's Entertainment. And in that, it's great fun, true or not. The same can be said for shows claiming to search for ghosts, or claiming a game show can unite two people in a truly loving marriage forever... Fun. Bring on the popcorn etc. But keep your wits about you. Still, many shows that are entertaining, ALSO provide useful information. Discovery channel and Science channel, and Nova shows, and others, often provide good information. But they always also have to be good entertainment, or nobody will watch. Good to keep in mind. Peter |
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
On Mar 5, 11:51*am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote: On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:00 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..." wrote: Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they prove' to be true..untrue. *Their show on whether or not the moon landings were real was a RIOT ! *hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! *I completely lost any respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show... /FC.... One of the aspects of being a literate consumer of media is understanding what a given show or information source IS, and what it IS NOT. *Mythbusters is not news, or science. *It's Entertainment. *And in that, it's great fun, true or not. * The same can be said for shows claiming to search for ghosts, or claiming a game show can unite two people in a truly loving marriage forever... * Fun. Bring on the popcorn etc. * But keep your wits about you. * Still, many shows that are entertaining, ALSO provide useful information. *Discovery channel and Science channel, and Nova shows, and others, often provide good information. But they always also have to be good entertainment, or nobody will watch. * Good to keep in mind. Peter Gee Guys, I thought this was a forum about exchanging ideas and tips that we have found to be useful and helpful to one another. I can see that you're more involved in listening to yourself rant then to ever consider that you might be going off topic just to discredit someones comment about a subject. I heard a guy on the radio that follows this same train of thought, RUSH LIMBAUGH and he's a drug addict. |
#16
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:38:43 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Graver
wrote: Gee Guys, I thought this was a forum about exchanging ideas and tips that we have found to be useful and helpful to one another. I can see that you're more involved in listening to yourself rant then to ever consider that you might be going off topic just to discredit someones comment about a subject. I heard a guy on the radio that follows this same train of thought, RUSH LIMBAUGH and he's a drug addict. Rush L? Now who's going off topic... Actually, the thread started on topic enough, talking about a show on synthetic diamonds. The thread only diverged from that to comment on the limits of the media. That wasn't discrediting anything or anyone's comments, only mentioning that the show in question, like any information or opinion (including yours, or mine) has it's limits. Please don't overly exaggerate what was said. And for the record, while exchanging ideas and tips that might be useful is indeed one prime function of this newsgroup, it's actually appropriate to discuss any jewelry related topic, so long as the discussion does not violate the charter restrictions on advertising or personal attack/flames. So far, this thread has done neither. Nor, it seems to me, has it particularly gotten especially extreme in any opinions. Maybe a bit on the one initial mythbusters comment, but that was merely an illustrative example, not the point of the post in question. The topic of the thread was, and essentially remains, the nature of that show in synthetic diamonds and the limits to the information therein that should be kept in mind. Relax. Peter Rowe moderator rec.crafts.jewelry |
#17
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
Jman wrote:
I am however, still having a tough time finding those Diamonds that look like the one's in "Todd Reed and others works". It looks like I'm going to have to keep looking for awhile. Contact Todd directly. He may sell you some. He uses hundreds if not thousands of carats a year. Tell him Abrasha sent you. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#18
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
Graver wrote:
On Mar 5, 11:51 am, Peter W. Rowe wrote: On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:00 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..." wrote: Yeah, it's kinda' like watching "Mythbusters" episodes of 'what they prove' to be true..untrue. Their show on whether or not the moon landings were real was a RIOT ! hahaha, I've never SEEN two guys SO BIASED on what THEY perceived as the truth ! I completely lost any respect I 'might' have had for those two CLOWNS and that show... /FC.... One of the aspects of being a literate consumer of media is understanding what a given show or information source IS, and what it IS NOT. Mythbusters is not news, or science. It's Entertainment. And in that, it's great fun, true or not. The same can be said for shows claiming to search for ghosts, or claiming a game show can unite two people in a truly loving marriage forever... Fun. Bring on the popcorn etc. But keep your wits about you. Still, many shows that are entertaining, ALSO provide useful information. Discovery channel and Science channel, and Nova shows, and others, often provide good information. But they always also have to be good entertainment, or nobody will watch. Good to keep in mind. Peter Gee Guys, I thought this was a forum about exchanging ideas and tips that we have found to be useful and helpful to one another. I can see that you're more involved in listening to yourself rant then to ever consider that you might be going off topic just to discredit someones comment about a subject. I heard a guy on the radio that follows this same train of thought, RUSH LIMBAUGH and he's a drug addict. What? Have you taken your medication today? -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#19
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Market for imperfect gemstones?
On Mar 9, 9:08 pm, Abrasha wrote:
Jman wrote: I am however, still having a tough time finding those Diamonds that look like the one's in "Todd Reed and others works". It looks like I'm going to have to keep looking for awhile. Contact Todd directly. He may sell you some. He uses hundreds if not thousands of carats a year. Tell him Abrasha sent you. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com Alright, I'll do that... Thanks, /FC... |
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