a new development in Scotland

I don't see how somebody using a laptop should annoy anybody.... I work
in the bus with my laptop a couple of days a week and I seriously doubt
I am bothering anybody.

I once had the misfortune to share a library reading room with somebody
who was using some kind of crummy Windows machine that went bleep every
time she hit a key. I was trying to read musical scores. Can you imagine
how hard it is to hear music in your head with that in the background?
(She didn't know how to turn it off, either).

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

I don't see how somebody using a laptop should annoy anybody.... I work
in the bus with my laptop a couple of days a week and I seriously doubt
I am bothering anybody.

I once had the misfortune to share a library reading room with somebody
who was using some kind of crummy Windows machine that went bleep every
time she hit a key. I was trying to read musical scores. Can you imagine
how hard it is to hear music in your head with that in the background?
(She didn't know how to turn it off, either).

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

Amen. I hate going in a restaurant or store and having inconsiderate
parents with their bratty children running around. Keep them at home until
you can control them, and then DO control them in public. Children are like
puppies, they have to be trained. Part of that training is correction.

L

"KI Graham" wrote in message
news:U1gXf.208300$H%4.168448@pd7tw2no...
I agree with all that's been said, but following a conversation I had with
a student recently, have got to add:
START teaching a child how to behave at home before you even think about
taking him/her out to a restaurant. I was talking about staging the
church's Passover dinner with my class, and said "I expect the kids should
be able to take part and behave reasonably well if they're sitting with
their families.

One mom commented: "My son likes to get up and wander around during a
meal, so he's not going to sit through Passover."
I replied "Does he do that at home?"
"yes, he does." [The child in question is 6 years old and in school.]

Yikes! How can anyone expect their kids to behave reasonably in public if
they aren't taught basic courtesy at home? My husband was voted "least
likely to discipline" when my kids were little, but he NEVER would have
let them wander in and out at will during dinner. As I recall, at our
house, if you left the table, you asked to be excused first [my youngest
is 21, so I'm definitely hitting the "cranky old person" level]. If you
chose to wander off for any reason other than to go to the loo, your
dinner was gone when you returned, and there certainly was no dessert or
snack later. That's basic courtesy: we excuse ourselves when we leave the
table too.


--
Kim Graham
http://members.shaw.ca/kigraham
Nanaimo, BC, Canada
THE WORD IN PATCHWORK


"Jan" wrote in message
. 125.201...
Man.... Kid with metal spoon and tray would make me want to do mean
things too vbg And you don't have to pop them, but you do have to
have an effective incentive. vbg And they know how long they can
push you .... mine comes with a very short time vbg So if you have a
short and nice threatening time with an effective incentive... you're
in. In our case it's usually you will loose a toy or privilege and we
will get up and leave immeadiately. And of course if she wants to
leave.. I'm sunk .. and that happened only once before I caught on.
I've also been known to loudly say, that child is an example of how you
should never ever behave loudly enough that the parent will hear it and
take action..... but, I'm very tired of all kids becoming targets of
older people in restaurants just because they are young. It is reaching
epidemic porportions and it's wrong. You have to be able to take your
child out to teach said child right from wrong. And if the adults are
behaving badly, I'll use them as bad examples too.... because rudeness
never teaches good behavior... it just shows that the rude adult has no
manners either.

--
Jan
RCTQ Coffee Diva


Taria wrote in news:ShfXf.19$e11.1@trnddc02:

I can take a lot but when the mom hands a spoon to a kid that is
sitting at a metal tray type high chair I want to do mean things. : )

We took our kids a lot of places and they were usually very good.
I had my niece and nephew out to a take out place once and he decided
he was going to throw a fuss. I told him I was hungry and I was
eating. (I was, actually always am) If he wanted to throw a fit he
could go do it in the car alone. He shut up and started eating. Boy
was I glad cause I had no back up plan!

I told one woman in the post office once "clearly the only ones
listening to you is the rest of us, not your kid. My mother would say
that kid needs popped" The kid seemed to know the mom had no
intention of making him behave. I'm probably lucky I didn't get shot
but everyone in the place was glad to shut the mom up as much as the
kid! Odd, I don't remember being beat or even really 'popped' I guess
mom was good at threatening!
Taria


Jan wrote:
And if you never take her out, how will she learn?? I'm sooooo very
sorry that happened Dr. Quilter!!! We take Jess everywhere with us.
How would she learn to behave in public if we didn't????? And I'm
thinking as honery as Sandy is, her kids probably had their loud
moments too..... hmmmm... vbg

on another note... it does wonders when a well placed stranger commends your
children on being good out in public! Especially when the praise goes
straight to the kiddos and not thru the parents.
Been on the receiving end and the giving end and watched the effects on my
kiddos.

(and seen how it affected another child who was not being nice at a nearby
restaurant table when mine were singled out for praise)

-- Kellie
kjbeanne at yahoo dot com
www.kjbeanne.com/kellie.htm

"Jan" wrote in message
. 125.201...
Man.... Kid with metal spoon and tray would make me want to do mean
things too vbg And you don't have to pop them, but you do have to
have an effective incentive. vbg And they know how long they can
push you .... mine comes with a very short time vbg So if you have a
short and nice threatening time with an effective incentive... you're
in. In our case it's usually you will loose a toy or privilege and we
will get up and leave immeadiately. And of course if she wants to
leave.. I'm sunk .. and that happened only once before I caught on.
I've also been known to loudly say, that child is an example of how you
should never ever behave loudly enough that the parent will hear it and
take action..... but, I'm very tired of all kids becoming targets of
older people in restaurants just because they are young. It is reaching
epidemic porportions and it's wrong. You have to be able to take your
child out to teach said child right from wrong. And if the adults are
behaving badly, I'll use them as bad examples too.... because rudeness
never teaches good behavior... it just shows that the rude adult has no
manners either.

--
Jan
RCTQ Coffee Diva


Taria wrote in news:ShfXf.19$e11.1@trnddc02:

I can take a lot but when the mom hands a spoon to a kid that is
sitting at a metal tray type high chair I want to do mean things. : )

We took our kids a lot of places and they were usually very good.
I had my niece and nephew out to a take out place once and he decided
he was going to throw a fuss. I told him I was hungry and I was
eating. (I was, actually always am) If he wanted to throw a fit he
could go do it in the car alone. He shut up and started eating. Boy
was I glad cause I had no back up plan!

I told one woman in the post office once "clearly the only ones
listening to you is the rest of us, not your kid. My mother would say
that kid needs popped" The kid seemed to know the mom had no
intention of making him behave. I'm probably lucky I didn't get shot
but everyone in the place was glad to shut the mom up as much as the
kid! Odd, I don't remember being beat or even really 'popped' I guess
mom was good at threatening!
Taria


Jan wrote:
And if you never take her out, how will she learn?? I'm sooooo very
sorry that happened Dr. Quilter!!! We take Jess everywhere with us.
How would she learn to behave in public if we didn't????? And I'm
thinking as honery as Sandy is, her kids probably had their loud
moments too..... hmmmm... vbg

Sorry, I have to disagree here. It's a shame that more restaurant/store
managers don't take the larger portion of clients into consideration and ask
people to control their children. There is NOTHING wrong that I can see in
what the manager asked DrQuilter to do - keep her child quiet, so that
others could enjoy their meals in peace. Children should be taught the
difference between inside and outside voice from the earliest possible age,
and if they cannot be controlled in public then they need to be taken home.

L

"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
DrQuilter wrote:

sandy,

we were asked to 'make sofia be quiet' in a japanese bistro the other
day. this is not a fancy place, just a little place in a strip mall close
to our home. there were other kids about her age. sofi was not
missbehaving, screaming or yellling, she was just talking, but she has
this loud sometimes high pitched voice when she is excited, and talks up
a storm. we left, because there is no way I could control how much or how
she talks and enjoy dinner...

I have had some hilarious and not so hilarious experiences out with
kids...

Keep taking Sofia out with you, to all sorts of places. if people are
'off' about her, tell them how displeased you are, and that they have
forever lost not only YOUR custom, but also that of all your friends and
relations.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kellie J. Berger wrote:
on another note... it does wonders when a well placed stranger commends your
children on being good out in public! Especially when the praise goes
straight to the kiddos and not thru the parents.
Been on the receiving end and the giving end and watched the effects on my
kiddos.

(and seen how it affected another child who was not being nice at a nearby
restaurant table when mine were singled out for praise)

As both a giver of such, and a receiver, I have to say that hits the
note!


--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Batik Freak wrote:

Amen. I hate going in a restaurant or store and having inconsiderate
parents with their bratty children running around. Keep them at home until
you can control them, and then DO control them in public. Children are like
puppies, they have to be trained. Part of that training is correction.


Indeed - but another way is just to take them out even before they can
sit up, and start by 'expecting' good behavior from 3 weeks old. From
six to eight months old, James knew what to expect when we were out: if
he got bored, he just went to sleep! Mind you, we tended to feed him
first and then give him The Plug (dummy/comforter) when he was full, and
some toys to play with. Half the time other diners didn't realize we
had him with us. By the time he was three, we were collecting
complements on how angelic his behavior was at almost every pub and
restaurant we stopped at. And if he DID throw a boiled goblin fit, we
just took him out immediately. Misbehavior was quashed rapidly, just as
my parents did with us. If you are a parent, you have a duty and a
responsibility to civilize your offspring. There are some kids who have
built in problems with this (autism and other specific physical and
learning difficulties spring to mind, but the right allowances can be
made for those), but for problem-free kids who are just allowed to brat
out there is no excuse, and no reason other than ignorance or lack of
care from the parent.

I now have a kid who prefers pubs and real restaurants to MacDeadburgers!

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Batik Freak wrote:

Sorry, I have to disagree here. It's a shame that more restaurant/store
managers don't take the larger portion of clients into consideration and ask
people to control their children. There is NOTHING wrong that I can see in
what the manager asked DrQuilter to do - keep her child quiet, so that
others could enjoy their meals in peace. Children should be taught the
difference between inside and outside voice from the earliest possible age,
and if they cannot be controlled in public then they need to be taken home.

She wasn't misbehaving - just a bit loud. Turning the volume down is a
good lesson, and easily taught and enforced.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

I was in a QUILTING class with someone who
kept setting (playing with) her SM settings
during the lecture portion. The thing sounded
like setting a Micro wave oven. It was not
too annoying ... but certainly odd and a wee
bit distracting. After class, I said that to
the instructor, Libby Lehman. Her reply was
that with most SM you can turn off the sound.

Beep! PAT in VA/USA

wrote:



I once had the misfortune to share a library reading room with somebody
who was using some kind of crummy Windows machine that went bleep every
time she hit a key. I was trying to read musical scores. Can you imagine
how hard it is to hear music in your head with that in the background?
(She didn't know how to turn it off, either).

In article ,
Kate Dicey wrote:

If you are a parent, you have a duty and a
responsibility to civilize your offspring.


Amen. We started taking our two DDs to restaurants when they were babies
and only had to leave one once. The DDs knew better than to be on
anything but their best behavior when we took them anywhere because we
weren't afraid to tell them what the rules were and to enforce them.

I get so tired of parents who won't insist on good behavior in public.
Even in a casual restaurant with booths, we will frequently have to put
up with children peering over the back of the one they're sitting in,
throwing things into our booth. It's enough to ruin the appetite. :S
--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
my ISP is earthlink.net -- put sfoster1(at) in front
http://home.earthlink.net/~sfoster1

AKA Dame Sandy, Minister of Education