Some OT, some not. A little venting, a little beadmaking talk....

I agree that t he license doesn't have much to do with it. The legal
recognition is essentially a social encouragement; it makes the spouse
the legal next-of-kin, which is a very important recognition.

Definitely! I admit, I have a skewed view of marriage due to a variety of
circumstances. My parents stayed married til the day my Dad died, but I was
acutely aware growing up that staying together wasn't out of undying love.
For a long time they just moved around each other, instead of together. My
aunt, OTOH, was "shacked up" with a long-time lover for over 20 years, and I
think I learned about passion and devotion from them more than anyone else
in my life. He was married but separated because his wife wouldn't "give"
him a divorce. I felt so sad when "no fault" divorce came into being, three
years after Tom died.

I adore Mike, he's more important and wonderful and beloved than I can
express. But what our relationship IS can't be validated by some JP we don't
even know. (We're not churchy religious, so there's no affiliation.) I've
honestly evaded and avoided getting married, which has exasperated Mike to
no end. He finally sat me down and laid out the legalities, and what we
would have to do to make the important things valid without getting married.
And it's a lot more than "next of kin" in the real world, though that
largely sums it up. And I've seen the complications firsthand, through
losing several dear, gay friends in my NYC days. The resultant legal mess
when an unmarried partner dies is unbelievable.

Mike finally summed it up in one way. He reminded me of our age difference
(21 years), and gave me a scenario...he goes into the hospital ailing and
incoherent. I know what he wants and needs to be done. Do I want to spend
time showing papers and filling out forms, or do I just want to say "I"m his
wife" and do what needs to be done, plain and simple? Harsh reality, but
he's right. And (dragging a little politics into this), it breaks my heart
that my/our friends who are same-sex couples cannot have that same "ease" in
a time of mind-bending crisis.

So, much as I enjoy "living in sin" I guess at some point before this house
is done and other things get sorted out, I'll be getting married again. LOL
So it goes.

KarenK

I saw the South Park episode about Wall*Mart the other day. One character
said
that getting rid of the big corporate entity they didn't want was going to
take
personal responsability and self control----don't buy things there, he said.
Of
course the others wanted a simpler solution.

LOL what could be simpler? I'm a Walmart Virgin and I'm proud.

KarenK

It's not going to be long before people are arrested in their homes for
subversive speech.

.....and books are burned in big piles. Stick in a stake, and you can roast a
witch at the same time.

Last night, around 10 pm, I was walking Mercury about 2 blocks from our house.
Two young men cornered me. I was scared, even though I had Merc with me,
because let's face it -- he's old and sore and stiff, and not that much of a
threat anymore. They had suits, and nametags, and they cheerily said they were
missionaries. Maybe they were -- I don't care. It was scary.

I told them they had the wrong person and walked away as fast as I could get
around them. It was frightening. There was no one else in sight, or screaming
distance, as far as I could tell. They FOLLOWED me, loudly saying "Oh, COME
ON!"

I turned around and said, "If you continue to follow me, I will scream as loud
as I can. You're two guys, I'm an older woman, alone, after dark. You need to
GO AWAY NOW." I turned and walked as fast as I could away from them. They
were saying things like "Enjoy walking your DOG," and proving to me They Were
Nice Boys.

I shook all the way home. Things like this have been happening since the
election, and it's not nice. It's scary as hell.
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

Heck, Berkeley was the first place in the world with curb cuts, so people in
wheelchairs, or with grocery carts, could get on and off the sidewalk.

After all, a large part of the civil rights progress was made in places like
Berkeley, and by people who could afford to take a risk. A risk that was
*relatively* small for a student in Berkeley (eg, jail and a concussion) but
could have been fatal for blacks in the South.


~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

Another element that many people don't think about is inheritance. A gay
couple may buy a house together and live in it for 50 years, but when
one dies, the other does not inherit their share of the house.
Obviously, they should have a will set up with each other as their
inheritor, but siblings or children from previous relationships may
contest a will, and they are likely to win. Now you have an elderly
person who has just lost their life-partner, and must either pay the
family for half the equity in the house, or move. That's not an
acceptable situation.

Worse, and unfortunately not as uncommon as the above scenario; a gay
couple has kids; one of the couple is the biological parent and the
other is not. The non-biological parent cannot legally adopt the kids
because the other biological parent is still around and involved. You
can probably imagine what happens if the biological parent in the gay
couple dies.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


Karen_AZ wrote:
I agree that t he license doesn't have much to do with it. The legal

recognition is essentially a social encouragement; it makes the spouse
the legal next-of-kin, which is a very important recognition.

Definitely! I admit, I have a skewed view of marriage due to a variety of
circumstances. My parents stayed married til the day my Dad died, but I was
acutely aware growing up that staying together wasn't out of undying love.
For a long time they just moved around each other, instead of together. My
aunt, OTOH, was "shacked up" with a long-time lover for over 20 years, and I
think I learned about passion and devotion from them more than anyone else
in my life. He was married but separated because his wife wouldn't "give"
him a divorce. I felt so sad when "no fault" divorce came into being, three
years after Tom died.

I adore Mike, he's more important and wonderful and beloved than I can
express. But what our relationship IS can't be validated by some JP we don't
even know. (We're not churchy religious, so there's no affiliation.) I've
honestly evaded and avoided getting married, which has exasperated Mike to
no end. He finally sat me down and laid out the legalities, and what we
would have to do to make the important things valid without getting married.
And it's a lot more than "next of kin" in the real world, though that
largely sums it up. And I've seen the complications firsthand, through
losing several dear, gay friends in my NYC days. The resultant legal mess
when an unmarried partner dies is unbelievable.

Mike finally summed it up in one way. He reminded me of our age difference
(21 years), and gave me a scenario...he goes into the hospital ailing and
incoherent. I know what he wants and needs to be done. Do I want to spend
time showing papers and filling out forms, or do I just want to say "I"m his
wife" and do what needs to be done, plain and simple? Harsh reality, but
he's right. And (dragging a little politics into this), it breaks my heart
that my/our friends who are same-sex couples cannot have that same "ease" in
a time of mind-bending crisis.

So, much as I enjoy "living in sin" I guess at some point before this house
is done and other things get sorted out, I'll be getting married again. LOL
So it goes.

KarenK

I have always wondered why, why why why, they do that? WHY? Why not a
little ramp? It costs no more to pour a small concrete ramp than it does
to pour a concrete step.

It's a lack of thinking. Because a ramp in easier to build than stairs are.
Of course, you have to have room to make the ramp the proper grade, or you can
exit a house at 70 mph! Uh oh, watch out, flying quad!

Consciousness raising is all a lot of people need, and they become more than
willing to build proper manifestations of a disabled-friendly world. I've gone
into places and told the manager I will not shop there, because a wheelchair
has no access. And all you have to do to force a place to build a ramp -- a
store, or some other serving-the-public biz -- is write a letter of complaint
to ---- I forget who. I'm also not sure how many letters it takes to require
them to build access. My mind is a sieve! Sheesh...

Businesses are one thing, homes are another. We had a hell of a time finding a
place to rent 2 years ago. And we can't go to anyone's house for dinner, to
watch a game, or whatever. It's sort of funny, really. We don't have enough
chairs here to have more than a guest or two, because they get in Kevin's way
and we don't need them for just my butt. However, we can't go visiting because
we don't fancy hanging out in people's driveways. And going out to dinner with
friends utterly and completely exhausts me by the time the entree is served
(getting Kevin packed up, in and out of the straps in the van, into the
restaurant, and set up with accoutrements of menu-reading and eating, whew) --
I'm not sparkling and witty no more. Haw! So our social lives are sort of
dried up.

The house I grew up in was like that; there was
a concrete slab for the porch, with one small step down and a concrete
walkway to the driveway. They could have just poured the walkway so it
ramped up to the level of the porch, but no. They had to create an
obstacle for everything/everyone using wheels for transportation. It was
even inconvenient for my mom, who was an able-bodied thirtysomething at
the time; she had one of those little 2-wheel carts to go grocery
shopping with.


~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

I hope you reported it to the police.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


Dr. Sooz wrote:
It's not going to be long before people are arrested in their homes for
subversive speech.


....and books are burned in big piles. Stick in a stake, and you can roast a
witch at the same time.

Last night, around 10 pm, I was walking Mercury about 2 blocks from our house.
Two young men cornered me. I was scared, even though I had Merc with me,
because let's face it -- he's old and sore and stiff, and not that much of a
threat anymore. They had suits, and nametags, and they cheerily said they were
missionaries. Maybe they were -- I don't care. It was scary.

I told them they had the wrong person and walked away as fast as I could get
around them. It was frightening. There was no one else in sight, or screaming
distance, as far as I could tell. They FOLLOWED me, loudly saying "Oh, COME
ON!"

I turned around and said, "If you continue to follow me, I will scream as loud
as I can. You're two guys, I'm an older woman, alone, after dark. You need to
GO AWAY NOW." I turned and walked as fast as I could away from them. They
were saying things like "Enjoy walking your DOG," and proving to me They Were
Nice Boys.

I shook all the way home. Things like this have been happening since the
election, and it's not nice. It's scary as hell.
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

It is whoever enforces the ADA in your state or county.
In CA it can be the state attorney general's office.
Shasta county has its own office for this

Do I want to spend time showing papers and filling out forms, or do I just
want to say "I"m his wife" and do what needs to be done, plain and simple?
Harsh reality, but he's right.

He's being very sensible, Karen, especially since you guys will be owning a
home and raising the kids together. Just remember, you wouldn't be getting
married to appease someone else's definition of "family," but it sure will make
your lives easier in the long run. Whatever you decide to do, I am just so
glad that you're happy!



Carol in SLC
Some of my stuff: http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/peace.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/elissa.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/oceansprite.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/jarvis.jpg

I'm a Walmart Virgin and I'm proud.

I see that I'm in excellent company!! When I got my newest computer, I had to
pay an extra $100 to *not* get it at Walmart, but it was worth every penny to
me!



Carol in SLC
Some of my stuff: http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/peace.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/elissa.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/oceansprite.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/jarvis.jpg