New Angel

On 6/22/04 3:49 PM, in article ,
"Lucretia Borgia" wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:28:16 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
wrote:

On 6/22/04 2:16 PM, in article ,
"Caryn" wrote:

BTW - I think Slick Willy will be known as a middle of the road president
in
50 years. GWB, below average, not the worst ever.
Cheryl

The way history sees him will depend entirely on how long the mess in Iraq
continues, how many people die because we were there, and what the final
outcome in the area is.

In 100 yrs I have a feeling neither Clinton nor GWB will be remembered in
grade
school history books.

I don't if I'd go that far. They will be listed with all the other
presidents; even Ford will get a mention.

I wish I could remember a quote from Ford - it was something about being
remembered not for his time in office but as a mere place marker in history.
It did strike me as being so very sad.


Did anyone else have to remember all the presidents in order?

Cheryl

I remember President Ford - wasn't he the one who fell down the steps
from the aircraft ? I do remember his wife Betty far more as she
made a big statement by letting it be announced she had breast cancer
and was having a mastectomy - quite a thing when it was virtually
still an unmentionable.

Gerry Ford used to joke about what a klutz he was when the cameras were
pointed at him.
Betty Ford will be remembered as one of the great first ladies for that.


Sadly, Hustler which was all the rage just then, ran a Christmas
edition with a cover page of the White House illuminated for Christmas
with a woman leaning out an upper window calling out "All I want for
Christmas is my left front tit" - it took a few more years then
hurrah he got his comeuppance. Everytime I have seen him pictured in
his wheelchair I feel the gods spoke where he was concerned.

Amen to that - what a jerk that man was and is!

Cheryl

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
And, in my eyes, it was akin to statutory rape. How old was Monica - 25 at
most? The most powerful man in the world wants her? She didn't have a
chance. How could she not, she might have lost the job. It strikes me as no
different than a boss insisting his secretary service him at lunch time.

Ummmm, statutory rape is (with few exceptions) forced sex by an adult
with a minor (someone under the age of 18). One can argue the merits of
whether or not the age of majority is properly set. I think it should
go back to 21. Still well below the age of 25 when the brain has
finished cementing the judgment area.

I was in a position of the big boys wanting the lowly girl. I managed
to keep my job, get promoted, and deal with the situation deftly without
ever having to consent.

Lewinsky may have been flattered into the relationship. Of that I won't
bury my head in the sand. But life has lessons to learn, and she
learned a big one. Nothing has changed much since I was young -
contrary to popular myth.

The affair was not an impeachable offense. The lie was what hung him
and cost the taxpayers needless time, energy, and money - at the end of
his presidency. Some will feel it was worth it, others will feel
differently.

That being understood, what are we going to do with the current bunch of
liars? You can't have it both ways.

Dianne

Index???
In my history book, we had the history; we had to make up the lists ourselves
LOLOL
kathy
san antonio

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
I didn't mind the lies about sex.

I really minded him taking advantage of a young girl and his abuse of
power.
If the president or CEO of major corporation talked an intern in to the
same
act(s), said officer would have been fired, lost his pension and the
respect
of most people.

Cheryl

He definitely did the wrong thing, and he did take advantage of a young
woman, and he definitely did the wrong thing in lying about it, but does
anyone but me remember that before she went to Washington to work as an
intern she told her boyfriend in California that she was going to see if she
could hook the President into a blow job and put another notch in her belt?

Lucille

On 6/22/04 4:02 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
And, in my eyes, it was akin to statutory rape. How old was Monica - 25 at
most? The most powerful man in the world wants her? She didn't have a
chance. How could she not, she might have lost the job. It strikes me as no
different than a boss insisting his secretary service him at lunch time.

Ummmm, statutory rape is (with few exceptions) forced sex by an adult
with a minor (someone under the age of 18). One can argue the merits of
whether or not the age of majority is properly set. I think it should
go back to 21. Still well below the age of 25 when the brain has
finished cementing the judgment area.

Statutory rape is defined as sex, even consensual sex, with an under aged
(15 in MA, 16 in NH, don't know about other states) minor. A minor can be
charged with statutory rape of a younger minor.

And no - according to several recent studies, as late as 25 the brain is
still maturing.
http://tinyurl.com/2gg5w
This one talks mainly about teens but there are others that show that
changes in the decision making areas are still changing as late as 25.

I was in a position of the big boys wanting the lowly girl. I managed
to keep my job, get promoted, and deal with the situation deftly without
ever having to consent.

Many have dealt with it - you're not alone. Everyone handles it differently.
BUT lots of men and I include Clinton in this, use the act of sex as a power
trip. This makes it a "rape" in my book.

Lewinsky may have been flattered into the relationship. Of that I won't
bury my head in the sand. But life has lessons to learn, and she
learned a big one. Nothing has changed much since I was young -
contrary to popular myth.
I think of her as a smart girl book wise and naïve in the extreme otherwise.
I'd feel sorry for her, but she's gotten millions from it.


The affair was not an impeachable offense. The lie was what hung him
and cost the taxpayers needless time, energy, and money - at the end of
his presidency. Some will feel it was worth it, others will feel
differently.

The lie UNDER OATH was impeachable.

The original act was morally wrong and just plain stupid. If he'd admitted
to it, the issue would have been dropped fairly quickly in my opinion -
after all where's the news. Clinton has a little egg on his face, lots of
men say "good for him - a little action on the side and Hilary forgives him
again.
End of story.

That being understood, what are we going to do with the current bunch of
liars? You can't have it both ways.

And I didn't ask for it both ways. I think Bush and his advisors may have
screwed up going to Iraq when they did. (I don't have a firmer opinion
there, I've had my own woes to deal with and haven't paid as much attention
as I normally would.) There seem to be some that think he screwed up going
to Afghanistan after 9-11.

I think every CEO that cheats/lies/otherwise behaves unethically toward
employee and or the shareholders should at the least lose his job and
pension and prosecuted if at all possible. Lawyers fees will eat a hole in
those ill gotten gains pretty quickly.

Cheryl

On 6/22/04 4:29 PM, in article ,
"Texasxsgal1" wrote:

Index???
In my history book, we had the history; we had to make up the lists ourselves
LOLOL
kathy
san antonio
Oh - you must really be old!
(r&d)

Cheryl

On 6/22/04 4:32 PM, in article ,
"Lucille" wrote:


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
I didn't mind the lies about sex.

I really minded him taking advantage of a young girl and his abuse of
power.
If the president or CEO of major corporation talked an intern in to the
same
act(s), said officer would have been fired, lost his pension and the
respect
of most people.

Cheryl

He definitely did the wrong thing, and he did take advantage of a young
woman, and he definitely did the wrong thing in lying about it, but does
anyone but me remember that before she went to Washington to work as an
intern she told her boyfriend in California that she was going to see if she
could hook the President into a blow job and put another notch in her belt?

Lucille



I never heard that part, but that is SO sad. Where's the boyfriend now?
Cheryl

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/22/04 4:32 PM, in article ,
"Lucille" wrote:


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
I didn't mind the lies about sex.

I really minded him taking advantage of a young girl and his abuse of
power.
If the president or CEO of major corporation talked an intern in to
the
same
act(s), said officer would have been fired, lost his pension and the
respect
of most people.

Cheryl

He definitely did the wrong thing, and he did take advantage of a young
woman, and he definitely did the wrong thing in lying about it, but does
anyone but me remember that before she went to Washington to work as an
intern she told her boyfriend in California that she was going to see if
she
could hook the President into a blow job and put another notch in her
belt?

Lucille



I never heard that part, but that is SO sad. Where's the boyfriend now?
Cheryl

He's probably back in CA thanking whoever he may worship that he didn't stay
involved with that foolish young woman. That's why I'm not sure she was
truly taken advantage of. Bill was sure as hell stupid for allowing it to
happen, but she wasn't any innocent young shrinking violet and I really
don't feel terribly sorry for her. In my day women of 25 were raising kids
of their own and running homes. I'm not saying that was the best thing, and
I will readily admit if I had it to do over I probably would prefer today's
lifestyles where women wait to have families and establish good careers
first, but that still doesn't make a 25 year old a kid. At that age a girl
really should be able to judge what's right and wrong and/or what's really
dumb.

Lucille

Index???
In my history book, we had the history; we had to make up the lists ourselves
LOLOL
kathy

Well........

As I recall our history books didn't exactly mention every president in the
text. Think, maybe, it even jumped from Andrew Jackson to Lincoln! ROFL

Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)

On 6/22/04 4:50 PM, in article ,
"Lucille" wrote:


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/22/04 4:32 PM, in article ,
"Lucille" wrote:


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
I didn't mind the lies about sex.

I really minded him taking advantage of a young girl and his abuse of
power.
If the president or CEO of major corporation talked an intern in to
the
same
act(s), said officer would have been fired, lost his pension and the
respect
of most people.

Cheryl

He definitely did the wrong thing, and he did take advantage of a young
woman, and he definitely did the wrong thing in lying about it, but does
anyone but me remember that before she went to Washington to work as an
intern she told her boyfriend in California that she was going to see if
she
could hook the President into a blow job and put another notch in her
belt?

Lucille



I never heard that part, but that is SO sad. Where's the boyfriend now?
Cheryl

He's probably back in CA thanking whoever he may worship that he didn't stay
involved with that foolish young woman. That's why I'm not sure she was
truly taken advantage of. Bill was sure as hell stupid for allowing it to
happen, but she wasn't any innocent young shrinking violet and I really
don't feel terribly sorry for her. In my day women of 25 were raising kids
of their own and running homes. I'm not saying that was the best thing, and
I will readily admit if I had it to do over I probably would prefer today's
lifestyles where women wait to have families and establish good careers
first, but that still doesn't make a 25 year old a kid. At that age a girl
really should be able to judge what's right and wrong and/or what's really
dumb.

Lucille


At 25, especially now, most people are still pretty young and foolish and
capable of doing things they really regret. And their brain is still
maturing physically as well as emotionally (unless you're in to
biopsychology - then it's the same thing).

But after yours and other comments (notch on her belt, etc), I feel less
sorry for her.


Interesting side note - in doing some estate planning, we found that some
"experts" are once again advising having trusts that end at the 25th
birthday instead of the 18th or 21st.

Cheryl