Dear Red States

wrote:

On Nov 7, 3:19 pm, Karen C in California wrote:

Good question. I suspect some of them voted only on Prop 8 and nothing
else on the ballot. Let me get the final/official statistics (available
end of the month) and see which issues/people have substantially more or
less votes than the others.


I'd be interested to see those stats, because it's highly unlikely
that anyone voted on a proposition without voting for president. It's
much more likely that people voted for president without voting on the
propositions.

Elizabeth


I don't have those stats yet, but it was reported in the news that black
churches were pushing Yes on Obama, No on gay marriage, which answers
Dawne's question of why the state didn't go for McCain when they went
red on gay marriage.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Dawne Peterson wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote .

The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry? What is this crap about
semantics, civil unions, marriage, legal contract, whatever anyone
wants to call it. Do they love one another any less than any other
couple?


The state has an interest in who can marry, partly one of protection (you
can't marry below a certain age)



Obviously, protecting against child marriage is one thing, but
"protecting against" two consenting adults is something else entirely.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Dawne Peterson wrote:

"Karen C in California" wrote..

Personally, I've been propositioned by a couple of lesbians who think that
because I'm divorced I should hate men. Did I cry on S's shoulder when my
relationship broke up? Yeah. Did I find her sexually attractive while I
was doing it? No. She just happened to be the nearest person when I got
the news. I am 150% hetero; when I got married, it was Hallelujah, I
never have to live with women again.


Um, not all lesbians hate men.




Didn't say they "all" do. Just the ones who propositioned me thought my
bad experience with a man should've made me hate men.



--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Pat in Illinois wrote:

It worked for the Golden Girls!

Pat in Illinois

Dawne Peterson wrote:

"Karen C in California" wrote..

I am 150% hetero; when I
got married, it was Hallelujah, I never have to live with women again.

My Best GFs and I often talk
about living together in our old age, and we are not entirely kidding.

Dawne



Some of my guy friends and I have talked about living together in our
old age. They rather like the idea of a roommate who can cook more than
hot dogs, and I like the idea of a roommate who can passionately discuss
baseball and politics.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Dawne Peterson wrote:

I am afraid I am Betty White




You are not that ditzy.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Lucille wrote:


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How is a civil ceremony by a
judge or a Justice of the Peace not separate from a religious one????

Lucille




Many of the European countries, you go down to City Hall and are married
by a bureaucrat. If you choose to then go down to the church and have
it officially blessed, that's fine, but you have to have the City Hall
marriage in addition. In the US, it's usually an either/or situation.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Jangchub wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 10:46:38 -0800, Karen C in California
wrote:


Jangchub wrote:

The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry?


Exactly. How exactly does it threaten YOUR marriage that Larry and Moe
have married each other? Do these people think that they'll be forced
to divorce each other and marry gay people?

Live and let live.


I'll even go as far as to say that possibly it is against someone's
religion. Okay, I can totally understand because there are vows I
break in my practice as well. So, very simply I don't participate in
the acts which I've vowed not to.


Precisely. It's against my friend's religion to eat pork, but he's not
out there trying to get pork outlawed for the rest of us.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

Lucille wrote:

What I was trying to say is you can get married in a civil ceremony and you
don't need to have a religious ceremony. I have friends who simply went to
the court house and got married before a judge.

You can, but there still really isn't much of a concept
of a separation of civil and religious marriage, as there is in
many other countries where people typically have two ceremonies--
one civil that makes them legally married in the eyes of the
state and a separate ceremony, if they wish, according to the
dictates of their religion. The state focuses on the legal/
contractual aspects of marriage and has much less to do with
the question of what marriages satisfy the requirements of
what religion. In the US, even though you aren't required
to have a religious ceremony to get married, the concept of
marriage is still pretty monolithic, so when the state considers
the question of who should or shouldn't get the legal status
of "married," people get all riled up about whether or not
the state's definition fits their religion's definition.
Most people don't really deal with the concept that the
state and their religion might have different requirements.
People in the US aren't used to thinking of it that way, so
anything the state does to change something about marriage
is construed as an attack on marriage.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka wrote:
so
anything the state does to change something about marriage
is construed as an attack on marriage.

Or, an attack on religion. There is quite a bit of confusion over
whether or not our United States was *founded* by religious people's who
wrote the Constitution based on religious law, most notably the Ten
Commandments. That's not true, but in this day and age, it's hard to
convince some that religion had nothing whatsoever to do with our
founding. And indeed some of the founding fathers were quite suspect of
religion.

Dianne

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"Karen C in California" wrote in message
Dawne Peterson wrote:

I am afraid I am Betty White




You are not that ditzy.

You have no idea. And I am pretty likely to win any "Most Likely to Have
Gone to St. Olaf's" contest.
Dawne