adding firebrick to fiber-lined kiln

Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner, rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any ideas?

EJ wrote:

Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner, rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any ideas?

Adding fiber is the way to go, as far as insulating efficiency. Where
are the elements? A good start would be to put 2" of fiber on the floor.
Put a few IFB on that fiber to support your kiln shelves.
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/

EJ wrote:

nJb wrote in message ...
EJ wrote:

Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner, rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any ideas?

Adding fiber is the way to go, as far as insulating efficiency. Where
are the elements? A good start would be to put 2" of fiber on the floor.
Put a few IFB on that fiber to support your kiln shelves.

I'm confused -- I thought that adding fiber on top of the bottom
bricks wouldn't add much. I was thinking of possibly adding bricks to
the sides, although I do have a small quartz encased element on each
side, as well as the bulk of the elements on the ceiling. the
thermocoupler (not sure that's the right word for the wire that
measures the temp for the controller) is also on the side. I'm
annealing beads, not fusing for this particular purpose.

OK. Sounds like a smaller kiln. Maybe 1 or 2 rows high of heavy fire
brick will give more hot mass that will radiate the heat over a period
of time. Depending on the size of the kiln maybe even a couple of bricks
will work. Of course your warm-up time will be longer.

Fiber has a much greater insulating value than any firebrick.

FYI, not good to wrap anything on the outside of the kiln.
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/

What type of kiln do you have? How big are the pieces you are making? If
you are making beads, they don't need nearly as much attention to ramp down
as larger pieces.
When I make beads or marbles, usually I put the last bead in and wait
about 5-10 minutes and just turn the kiln off and let it ramp down on its
own (which takes about 6 hours to get to room temperature). I have never
had any problem with annealing stress using this method.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner, rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any ideas?

I don't believe you can shut off a fiber lined kiln, as it will ramp down
far too fast. My intention is to ramp down slowly to at least 700 degrees
before turning the kiln off. I'm trying to minimize that hour of getting
from 950 to 700, as I sometimes have to run out without prior notice and
would like to simply shut down. My comfort level with leaving the kiln
unattended, even with the digital controller, is nil. That's why I'm trying
to add firebrick to slow down the temp drop when I shut off the kiln.


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
What type of kiln do you have? How big are the pieces you are making?
If
you are making beads, they don't need nearly as much attention to ramp
down
as larger pieces.
When I make beads or marbles, usually I put the last bead in and wait
about 5-10 minutes and just turn the kiln off and let it ramp down on its
own (which takes about 6 hours to get to room temperature). I have never
had any problem with annealing stress using this method.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner, rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any ideas?

EJ wrote:

I don't believe you can shut off a fiber lined kiln, as it will ramp down
far too fast. My intention is to ramp down slowly to at least 700 degrees
before turning the kiln off. I'm trying to minimize that hour of getting
from 950 to 700, as I sometimes have to run out without prior notice and
would like to simply shut down. My comfort level with leaving the kiln
unattended, even with the digital controller, is nil. That's why I'm trying
to add firebrick to slow down the temp drop when I shut off the kiln.


Hence the reason for putting a couple of heavy firebrick in the kiln for
added thermal mass.

Pick up a cheapo set point controller and TC on ebay and wire in a
redundant overtemp interrupter. That way you can have peace of mind when
you leave.
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/

The kiln I use is not fiber lined, but it is quite small (9" square bottom,
about 12" high).
You still haven't said how large your kiln is. If it is large enough, you
can just stack fire bricks in it to make an internal shell. Leave a hole
to put your beads in and then put a brick in to fill the hole when you are
ready to quit. This should slow the ramp down quite a bit.
Other then the small Paragon QuikFire kilns, I have never seen a fiber based
kiln. If it is one you built yourself, it would probably be just as easy
to make a firebrick kiln as it would be to change this one.
Have you ever fired the kiln empty and logged the ramp times to see how fast
it would fall? The ramp down may be slower than you think. And remember,
you said you were doing beads, not large objects, there is a whole different
dynamic with small objects due to their scale.
--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
newss46b.272330$Oz4.73146@rwcrnsc54...
I don't believe you can shut off a fiber lined kiln, as it will ramp down
far too fast. My intention is to ramp down slowly to at least 700 degrees
before turning the kiln off. I'm trying to minimize that hour of getting
from 950 to 700, as I sometimes have to run out without prior notice and
would like to simply shut down. My comfort level with leaving the kiln
unattended, even with the digital controller, is nil. That's why I'm
trying
to add firebrick to slow down the temp drop when I shut off the kiln.


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
What type of kiln do you have? How big are the pieces you are making?
If
you are making beads, they don't need nearly as much attention to ramp
down
as larger pieces.
When I make beads or marbles, usually I put the last bead in and wait
about 5-10 minutes and just turn the kiln off and let it ramp down on
its
own (which takes about 6 hours to get to room temperature). I have
never
had any problem with annealing stress using this method.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner, rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any ideas?

It's a Fusebox II, the inside dimensions are 14" wide, 9½" deep, and 5½"
high. And yes, I test fired the kiln and documented it -- here's what
happened in the first hour:


1:06 PM temp 968 Turn off
1:20 PM temp 748
1:35 PM temp 654
1:50 PM temp 588
2:05 PM temp 532

It just drops too fast to turn it off. I need it to drop at no more than
225 degrees per hour until it gets to 700 degrees or so.


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
The kiln I use is not fiber lined, but it is quite small (9" square
bottom,
about 12" high).
You still haven't said how large your kiln is. If it is large enough, you
can just stack fire bricks in it to make an internal shell. Leave a
hole
to put your beads in and then put a brick in to fill the hole when you are
ready to quit. This should slow the ramp down quite a bit.
Other then the small Paragon QuikFire kilns, I have never seen a fiber
based
kiln. If it is one you built yourself, it would probably be just as easy
to make a firebrick kiln as it would be to change this one.
Have you ever fired the kiln empty and logged the ramp times to see how
fast
it would fall? The ramp down may be slower than you think. And
remember,
you said you were doing beads, not large objects, there is a whole
different
dynamic with small objects due to their scale.
--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
newss46b.272330$Oz4.73146@rwcrnsc54...
I don't believe you can shut off a fiber lined kiln, as it will ramp
down
far too fast. My intention is to ramp down slowly to at least 700
degrees
before turning the kiln off. I'm trying to minimize that hour of
getting
from 950 to 700, as I sometimes have to run out without prior notice and
would like to simply shut down. My comfort level with leaving the kiln
unattended, even with the digital controller, is nil. That's why I'm
trying
to add firebrick to slow down the temp drop when I shut off the kiln.


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
What type of kiln do you have? How big are the pieces you are
making?
If
you are making beads, they don't need nearly as much attention to ramp
down
as larger pieces.
When I make beads or marbles, usually I put the last bead in and
wait
about 5-10 minutes and just turn the kiln off and let it ramp down on
its
own (which takes about 6 hours to get to room temperature). I have
never
had any problem with annealing stress using this method.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom) that
I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm
trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner,
rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any
ideas?

Thanks -- I definitely am going to plan on putting a brick inside on the
left. The right side has the thermocoupler and I'm afraid it will throw off
the controller, but maybe I'm wrong. For some reason, I thought it was not
OK to put anything on the outside, am I wrong?


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
After looking at the pics from the manufacturer, it seems you could
probably
stack bricks on each side on the inside (and the door opening would still
be
fully accessible) and maybe put bricks on top of the outside. The floor
is
already firebrick, right?
And you can put some in the bead door when you shut down. This might slow
your cool down enough.


--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques
"EJ" wrote in message
news:R7J6b.385029$uu5.72467@sccrnsc04...
It's a Fusebox II, the inside dimensions are 14" wide, 9½" deep, and 5½"
high. And yes, I test fired the kiln and documented it -- here's what
happened in the first hour:


1:06 PM temp 968 Turn off
1:20 PM temp 748
1:35 PM temp 654
1:50 PM temp 588
2:05 PM temp 532

It just drops too fast to turn it off. I need it to drop at no more
than
225 degrees per hour until it gets to 700 degrees or so.


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
The kiln I use is not fiber lined, but it is quite small (9" square
bottom,
about 12" high).
You still haven't said how large your kiln is. If it is large enough,
you
can just stack fire bricks in it to make an internal shell. Leave a
hole
to put your beads in and then put a brick in to fill the hole when you
are
ready to quit. This should slow the ramp down quite a bit.
Other then the small Paragon QuikFire kilns, I have never seen a fiber
based
kiln. If it is one you built yourself, it would probably be just as
easy
to make a firebrick kiln as it would be to change this one.
Have you ever fired the kiln empty and logged the ramp times to see
how
fast
it would fall? The ramp down may be slower than you think. And
remember,
you said you were doing beads, not large objects, there is a whole
different
dynamic with small objects due to their scale.
--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
newss46b.272330$Oz4.73146@rwcrnsc54...
I don't believe you can shut off a fiber lined kiln, as it will ramp
down
far too fast. My intention is to ramp down slowly to at least 700
degrees
before turning the kiln off. I'm trying to minimize that hour of
getting
from 950 to 700, as I sometimes have to run out without prior notice
and
would like to simply shut down. My comfort level with leaving the
kiln
unattended, even with the digital controller, is nil. That's why
I'm
trying
to add firebrick to slow down the temp drop when I shut off the
kiln.


"Louis Cage" wrote in message
...
What type of kiln do you have? How big are the pieces you are
making?
If
you are making beads, they don't need nearly as much attention to
ramp
down
as larger pieces.
When I make beads or marbles, usually I put the last bead in and
wait
about 5-10 minutes and just turn the kiln off and let it ramp down
on
its
own (which takes about 6 hours to get to room temperature). I
have
never
had any problem with annealing stress using this method.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"EJ" wrote in message
m...
Has anyone done this? I have a fiber lined kiln (brick bottom)
that
I
would like to increase the insulation efficiency of. What I'm
trying
to achieve is this ... being able to turn off my kiln sooner,
rather
than keeping it on to ramp down slowly. There are going to be
days
when I just can't stay home and watch the kiln (I DO have a
digital
controller, but don't want to leave the kiln unattended). Any
ideas?

EJ wrote:

Thanks -- I definitely am going to plan on putting a brick inside on the
left. The right side has the thermocoupler and I'm afraid it will throw off
the controller, but maybe I'm wrong. For some reason, I thought it was not
OK to put anything on the outside, am I wrong?

No. You are correct.
--
Jack


http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/