OT SS going to the source

I disagree. In the US, there is the option to write in a name for any
elected position. Every year, there are 100's of write in campaigns as well
as the option of writing in your favorite cartoon character. I hear Homer
Simpson got 20 votes for President in a town near me.

Cheryl

On 1/13/05 1:15 AM, in article , "Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen" wrote:

Cheryl , yes one can be responsible and NOT vote , in certain
political situations !!!
mirjam


Brenda -

Better said. Thank you

I have this pet peeve about responsible citizenship - have had from about
7th grade.

My history teacher that year was a man whose family came out East Germany
and had found relatives living in the States. While I am sure it mostly fell
on deaf ears, he spent a lot of time talking about the duties of
citizenship, mostly about voting, especially about informed voting, about
paying a fair tax, about tyranny.

And just to play devil's advocate a bit - is it possible to be a good
citizen with out being a responsible one? How about the other - responsible
without being a good citizen?
I am wrestling with this a bit due to a conversation I've had recently with
some one I know via Scouts.
Cheryl



On 1/11/05 4:16 PM, in article ,
"Brenda" wrote:

Oddly enough, I know several people who can't read or do basic math who
happen to be outstanding citizens. They are hard-working people who
live to help others and do not believe any task is beneath their
dignity. But yes, they are easily conned so they do need to have
someone protect their interests. I believe that is more in line with
what you are trying to get across.

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
I was speaking philosophically to some degree - I really don't know how to
"enforce" it. I deeply and sincerely believe that if one CAN NOT read or do
basic math (add, subtract), one can not be a good citizen or a responsible
one. By third grade (age 8-10), those basic skills need to be in place to
give each child a fighting chance.

I have not advocated not giving those with disabilities an education.

--
Brenda

On 1/13/05 1:36 AM, in article , "Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen" wrote:

Cheryl ,, i agree with you that it should be so,,,,,,


I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all to be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!
But is this really happening ,,, in real life ????
mirjam

Cheryl



No Mirjam - an ideal.

Cheryl

"escape" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:14:02 -0500, Cheryl Isaak

opined:

On 1/12/05 5:29 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Ok - you're right - everyone is handicapped.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone is handicapped.
That's a pretty strong word. I said we're not all created equal, and
that some have lesser (or more) abilities than others.
Dianne


I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all to
be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!

Cheryl

I hate to break it to you, but I am perfect since beginningless time.

V


(tongue slightly in cheek)
But Vic, you can't be perfect. My husband told me that I'm always perfect
(and he should know because he's always right). [Long running family joke --
he's right, I'm perfect -- cuts down on lots of arguements & disolves them
into laughter].
S
(was Susan in N Indiana)

On 1/13/05 8:06 AM, in article
et, "JiminyCricket"
wrote:


"escape" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:14:02 -0500, Cheryl Isaak

opined:

On 1/12/05 5:29 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Ok - you're right - everyone is handicapped.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone is handicapped.
That's a pretty strong word. I said we're not all created equal, and
that some have lesser (or more) abilities than others.
Dianne


I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all to
be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!

Cheryl

I hate to break it to you, but I am perfect since beginningless time.

V


(tongue slightly in cheek)
But Vic, you can't be perfect. My husband told me that I'm always perfect
(and he should know because he's always right). [Long running family joke --
he's right, I'm perfect -- cuts down on lots of arguements & disolves them
into laughter].
S
(was Susan in N Indiana)



Thanks for the chuckle! But I used to work with Mr. Perfect - perfect hair,
perfect clothes, perfect teeth.

Too bad he was the worst engineer I ever dealt with bar none!



Cheryl

"JiminyCricket" wrote in message
ink.net...

"escape" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:14:02 -0500, Cheryl Isaak

opined:

On 1/12/05 5:29 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Ok - you're right - everyone is handicapped.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone is handicapped.
That's a pretty strong word. I said we're not all created equal, and
that some have lesser (or more) abilities than others.
Dianne


I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all to
be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!

Cheryl

I hate to break it to you, but I am perfect since beginningless time.

V


(tongue slightly in cheek)

But you CAN`T have been perfect since beginningless time - or you wouldnt
have had a boob job! LOLOLOL!!!

Pat P
But Vic, you can't be perfect. My husband told me that I'm always perfect
(and he should know because he's always right). [Long running family
joke --
he's right, I'm perfect -- cuts down on lots of arguements & disolves them
into laughter].
S
(was Susan in N Indiana)

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 1/13/05 8:06 AM, in article
et, "JiminyCricket"
wrote:


"escape" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:14:02 -0500, Cheryl Isaak

opined:

On 1/12/05 5:29 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Ok - you're right - everyone is handicapped.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone is handicapped.
That's a pretty strong word. I said we're not all created equal, and
that some have lesser (or more) abilities than others.
Dianne


I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all
to
be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!

Cheryl

I hate to break it to you, but I am perfect since beginningless time.


V


(tongue slightly in cheek)
But Vic, you can't be perfect. My husband told me that I'm always
perfect
(and he should know because he's always right). [Long running family
joke --
he's right, I'm perfect -- cuts down on lots of arguements & disolves
them
into laughter].
S
(was Susan in N Indiana)



Thanks for the chuckle! But I used to work with Mr. Perfect - perfect
hair,
perfect clothes, perfect teeth.

Too bad he was the worst engineer I ever dealt with bar none!



Cheryl


Well, I'm an engineer, but I don't play one in real life. Actually, my core
business is communications -- being an engineer, especially a biomechanical
engineer w/ a minor in veterinary medicine just helps me be better at what I
do (communications and analysis for orthopaedics & sometimes other areas of
medical device development).
S

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 1/12/05 5:29 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:


Cheryl Isaak wrote:

Ok - you're right - everyone is handicapped.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone is handicapped.
That's a pretty strong word. I said we're not all created equal, and
that some have lesser (or more) abilities than others.
Dianne



I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all to be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!

Cheryl

Cheryl, You're original premise was that you didn't understand how
intelligent adults could fall for a scam. You were pretty adamant that
there was a failure somewhere in order for an intelligent adult to fall
prey. I have repeatedly told you there are many reasons why intelligent
adults could fall prey to a scam/con.

This has nothing to do with "equality", or whether or not people should
be treated equally. That's pretty far afield from the original premise.

Dianne

--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote
And just to play devil's advocate a bit - is it possible to be a good
citizen with out being a responsible one? How about the other -
responsible
without being a good citizen?

Plato made some interesting distinctions relating to this when he was
discussing the transmigration of souls. He thought there are people who
are good citizens in that they obey all of the laws and fulfill their civic
obligations, and do so because they have been taught that is the right
thing to do. In his scheme of things, they are reborn as ants or
bees--insects that live productively in colonies, with each member
conscientiously carrying out their job.
OTOH, there are people who think carefully about the nature of virtue,
about what it means to be e.g. honest, and assess their actions according
to principles they have derived for themselves from observing the world and
using their reason. They are philosophers, and are rewarded by living with
the gods.
For him, it is not only doing the right things, but doing the right things
for the right reasons.
I argue with my students that the real test is coming on a red traffic
light at 3 am when you are the only car for several blocks. If you stop,
and stay stopped for the entire duration of the light, IMHO, you are
destined for bugdom.
Dawne

X-No-Archive: yes
"Dawne Peterson" wrote in message
...
For him, it is not only doing the right things, but doing the right things
for the right reasons.
I argue with my students that the real test is coming on a red traffic
light at 3 am when you are the only car for several blocks. If you stop,
and stay stopped for the entire duration of the light, IMHO, you are
destined for bugdom.


Not necessarily. You may be stopping because, in your town, most of the
people driving on the road at 3am are teenagers with lead feet +/- booze,
who pay little attention to the colour of the lights as they whiz through
*and* most people hanging out on the sidewalk at the 7-11, beside the
traffic lights, are also teenagers paying little attention to the world
around them and may end up under the wheels of your car!

Now is that self-preservation or philosophy?

E

On 1/13/05 9:25 AM, in article
et, "JiminyCricket"
wrote:


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 1/13/05 8:06 AM, in article
et, "JiminyCricket"
wrote:


"escape" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:14:02 -0500, Cheryl Isaak

opined:

On 1/12/05 5:29 PM, in article , "Dianne
Lewandowski" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Ok - you're right - everyone is handicapped.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said everyone is handicapped.
That's a pretty strong word. I said we're not all created equal, and
that some have lesser (or more) abilities than others.
Dianne


I say that in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law, we are all
to
be
treated equally!

But that obviously isn't good enough for you!

Cheryl

I hate to break it to you, but I am perfect since beginningless time.


V


(tongue slightly in cheek)
But Vic, you can't be perfect. My husband told me that I'm always
perfect
(and he should know because he's always right). [Long running family
joke --
he's right, I'm perfect -- cuts down on lots of arguements & disolves
them
into laughter].
S
(was Susan in N Indiana)



Thanks for the chuckle! But I used to work with Mr. Perfect - perfect
hair,
perfect clothes, perfect teeth.

Too bad he was the worst engineer I ever dealt with bar none!



Cheryl


Well, I'm an engineer, but I don't play one in real life. Actually, my core
business is communications -- being an engineer, especially a biomechanical
engineer w/ a minor in veterinary medicine just helps me be better at what I
do (communications and analysis for orthopaedics & sometimes other areas of
medical device development).
S




Cool - another female engineer! Sounds like a neat job actually!

Cheryl