Building a kiln controller

--
....

"liam potts" wqdwqe@kjka wrote in message
...
This is strange liam. Why do you want to try to run a 100A kiln on a 30
amp circuit? Sounds like you're trying to run one element at a time.
Not
trying to be a smart ass here, but I'm working on this round thing.
Think I'll call it a wheel. It's gonna be a big hit. Maybe I am trying
to be a smart ass. Seems like you're going about things in a
complicated
manner.

Jack


Here is the deal I have a cress c-20-l its 240 30 amp kiln with four
elements and three manual controls one control is hooked up to two
elements
the middle ones. Excuse my ignorance but I figured if each element is
240vac
25 amps I would want to avoid having all the elements on at the same
time.
So once again I assumed I would need a relay per element to avoid having
all
the elements on at the same time. I do agree I may be way over
complicating
things if I am please suggest a better route.


if you have a 30 amp kiln, then the sum of the element usages is 30 amps,
not 30 amps each.


That makes a lot more since I was just going by what the element specs where
which was 240 6kw per element at least that's what Euclid told me.

"nJb" wrote in message ...
liam potts wrote:

This is strange liam. Why do you want to try to run a 100A kiln on a
30
amp circuit? Sounds like you're trying to run one element at a time.
Not
trying to be a smart ass here, but I'm working on this round thing.
Think I'll call it a wheel. It's gonna be a big hit. Maybe I am trying
to be a smart ass. Seems like you're going about things in a
complicated
manner.

Jack

Here is the deal I have a cress c-20-l its 240 30 amp kiln with four
elements and three manual controls one control is hooked up to two
elements
the middle ones. Excuse my ignorance but I figured if each element is
240vac
25 amps I would want to avoid having all the elements on at the same
time.
So once again I assumed I would need a relay per element to avoid having
all
the elements on at the same time. I do agree I may be way over
complicating
things if I am please suggest a better route.



Now we're getting somewhere. I doubt each element is 25 amps. Most
likely, the whole kiln with all switches on high draws 25 amps. Does it
plug into a 30 amp circuit? If so that is the 25 is probably the max it
will draw. Are you running single phase power? If so your kiln (not each
element)is listed at 22 amps.

So, let's say it does plug into a 30 amp outlet. Then you will build a
control box that your kiln plugs into. All kiln switches will remain on
high, the controller will do the rest.

It does plug into a 240 30 amp 30 amp plug


Here's how I have done it:

Purchase a CAL9500P controller with SSR output List $225
a 40 amp SSR with heat sink, maybe $50
a metal box, $15
a plug to plug the box into the wall $15
an outlet to plug the kiln into $8
a simple on/off switch and fuse $5

Wire it all together and plug it in. My first kiln has a kiln sitter so
I use an 1800F cone to protect against runaway.

My second kiln has 2 controllers in the box. One just monitors for high
temp runaway.

Jack

Jack that's exactly what I needed. Thank you
I will take your advice and set it up that way I will tell you how it goes.
Thank you again

Making this to complicated?. I was just providing some advice regarding
use of the output and precautions. I too use CAL controllers and quite
like them. I use SSR drive as it potentially kinder on the elements.

nJb wrote:

David Billington wrote:

5vdc @ 50ma will drive a relay but may be intended to drive a solid
state relay which it would do easily. One would want to check that the
drive is suitable for driving an inductive load like a relay also, it
needs to be able to take the back EMF when the relay is de-energised or
may be damaged. You could of course add your own diode across the relay
to absorb the back EMF.


You're making this way too complicated. When you order a controller, you
order it with the board to drive the type of relay you want to use. If
you want to use mechanicals, AKA clickers, order a simple relay board
and clickers with 120 or 240 volt coils.

Jack

David Billington wrote:

Making this to complicated?. I was just providing some advice regarding
use of the output and precautions. I too use CAL controllers and quite
like them. I use SSR drive as it potentially kinder on the elements.


Complicated in the sense of ordering something that needs to be modified
(5vdc) output when he could just order a simple relay drive and power it
with 120V or order an SSR drive.

Jack

This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.


nJb wrote:
liam potts wrote:

"nJb" wrote in message ...

liam potts wrote:

Ya I tried contacting them was a route I was considering still have not
gotten an e-mail

And it looks like if I can use the omega it will be cheaper


How much?

Jack

Looking like $200 at this point but hell by the time I get done with it and
all the frustration it might not be worth it. I am still not able to get
them to reply to an e-mail


You will be at least $350 into a controller if you build it but it's
worth every penny.

Jack

--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.


Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?

I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...

From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good
hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words,
it might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the
$150 vs. making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT
of variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day
class at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small
kiln in one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included
(no controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the
drive there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour
commitment. Plus $150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400,
shipped, and, given 14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many
artisans could make the difference between the cost of the class (plus
travel expenses) and the price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of
kilns it would be completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe
a few more down the road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit
ratio tip in favor of the class.

Javahut wrote:
"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.



Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?





--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

Javahut wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.


Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?

What Javahut said. AND, your comparing a $500 controller to one you
build for $350. The $350 controller has $300 in whistles and bells.
Whistles and bells that are worth something.

Jack

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...

From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good
hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words, it
might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the $150 vs.
making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT of
variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day class
at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small kiln in
one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included (no
controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the drive
there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour commitment. Plus
$150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400, shipped, and, given
14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many artisans could make the
difference between the cost of the class (plus travel expenses) and the
price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of kilns it would be
completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe a few more down the
road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit ratio tip in favor of the
class.

well, except for the fact that if you can build a small one, you can build a
big one (the concept scales). the cost to build a big one may be 2k-3k, to
buy a big one might be 15k-20k, making your savings be a lot more.

Javahut wrote:
"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.



Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in
the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?





--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

That's a good point, if I was in the market for a large kiln or expected
that I would be. However, I was just using my particular situation with
the kiln class to illustrate the fact that sometimes, when you take your
time for labor into consideration, it's less expensive to buy something
than it is to make it.

That's what I was wondering about this particular controller; if it
costs $350 in materials, and then there's the time spent researching,
aquiring parts, and building it, is it actually a less expensive
controller? The price is not far from many commercially-available
multi-segment controllers, and what I am wondering is whether it is
significantly superior to, say, the 30-amp multi-segment controller
available at Arrow Springs? If it is, I'd love it if someone would
explain that to me, because in that case I might be interested in it
myself. If it's not, then I'm wondering if the OP had taken under
consideration that his time might be more efficiently spent making
product to sell for the difference in cash to buy the premade
controller. That's not going to be true in all cases, and for some
people, as Javahut pointed out, it's worth it for the simple pleasure of
building something yourself. I can appreciate the joy of building
things; I am an avid do-it-yourselfer around the house, but a lot of
people overlook the fact that sometimes building something yourself is
not the most economical option.

Charles Spitzer wrote:
"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...

I can see your point re; the curiosity, but...

From a purely financial viewpoint, I think I would have to take a good
hard look at that $150 and ask myself whether I would be shortselling my
time by building it myself vs. making salable product. In other words, it
might COST me more (that I could have spent on glass) to save the $150 vs.
making salable product in the same time frame. There are a LOT of
variables involved, but it's something that self-employed people (or
people who supplement their main income with their art sales) often fail
to take into consideration in the "make it or buy it?" equation.

For example, a fellow not long ago was encouraging me to take a day class
at the coast (a 3-hour drive) that would teach me to build a small kiln in
one day. The class was only $150, and materials were included (no
controller, of course.) It was a full-day class, plus of course the drive
there and back again, and meals... that's about a 14-hour commitment. Plus
$150. You can buy a small fusing kiln for about $400, shipped, and, given
14 hours, there is a strong possibility that many artisans could make the
difference between the cost of the class (plus travel expenses) and the
price of a kiln. If I wanted to build a lot of kilns it would be
completely worth it; I only want one right now. Maybe a few more down the
road. Not nearly enough to make the cost/benefit ratio tip in favor of the
class.


well, except for the fact that if you can build a small one, you can build a
big one (the concept scales). the cost to build a big one may be 2k-3k, to
buy a big one might be 15k-20k, making your savings be a lot more.


Javahut wrote:

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...


This may not adequately address many people's financial situations, but
if you're going to put $350 plus labor into building one, what is the
advantage over spending the extra $150 and buying one?

My line of thought usually follows the question, "What am I good at?"
and usually when I answer the question, I find that I end up ahead if I
put the time into what I'm good at, then sell my work to earn money to
pay someone else to do what I'm not good at, in this case build a
controller. Especially since, for me, it is an endeavor I would engage
in too seldom to ever really *become* good/fast at it.



Learning how to do something new and what do you do when your controller
fails?

If you know how its built, it is much easier to repair it when it breaks.
That's not an "if" it breaks, its a "when". and some of us just can't
resist the "how do you do that" thing. It's what got me into glass in
the
first place.
and $150 buys alot of fusible glass, right?





--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com




--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com