A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Pottery
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

craft/art article by Grayson Perry



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old May 29th 05, 09:41 PM
Xtra News
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DKat" wrote in message
...
The author states 'It is all these things combined that make art
exciting'.

What underlies that statement is "for me". These are subjective things.
But what made the article raise my hackles was its form and the opening
statement "I see the craft world as a kind of lagoon and the art world in
general as the ocean. Some artists shelter in this lagoon, because their
imagination isn't robust enough to go out into the wider sea."

I find no way to not see that as an offensive insult. I am enjoying the
debate however that it has generated

Donna

It can be taken as offensive, but in my experience there is an element of
truth in it. I have heard potters/ceramic artists moan that their work
takes more skill, more learning, etc than painting, yet a painting will sell
for more. There is an element of truth in this. At a demostration by a
master potter who is also a painter, he painted a wonderful free flowing
scene on a large open bowl with underglaze. Held it up, we all went wow,
then he commented that if he had painted it on paper he could have sold it
for more, yet the skill of throwing this huge open bowl was undeniable.
I think though what Perry was pointing out is that if you want to succeed as
a crafts person, thats ok, make lovely functional work, sell it in craft
exhibitions and stalls etc. But if you want to succeed as an artist you
need to have something different and new and you need to sell and exhibit in
Art exhibitions.
It is a choice I have made not to be involved with craft markets and the
like. I only put my work into good exhibitions. ) Its a big topic, I am
sorry I missed lots of it because of computer problems.
Annemarie


Ads
  #22  
Old May 31st 05, 06:00 PM
Monika Schleidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Xtra News wrote:
What do you all think of this article?? Be really interested to hear, do
you like his work. I love it, but it sure is controversial. I listened to
him give a talk a couple months ago. A very interesting man.
Anyway here is the article
http://nzpotters.com/FeatureArticles/GraysonPerry.cfm


I, for one, don't want to be an artist, i am a craftsperson. (there is
no real good word in english for what i am, in german it is Handwerker,
- handworker doesn't mean anything, handyman is something else.) I
thrive to make good pottery, not art. One definition i thought about,
(which doesn't work for everything either) is, - art represents
something else, craft represents itself. If i paint a picture, make a
sculpture, it will be the picture of something, a sculpture of
something. If i make a teapot, it will be a teapot, if i make a mug, it
will be a mug. Of course then you get potters who make frogs for the
garden, are they artists?
For me, the piece i produce should fulfill the function for which it is
made in the first place, when it is beautiful on top of it, great. If i
make a teapot, it should be good to hold, pour well, the lid shouldn't
fall off when you pour...... whether it is pleasing is up to the eye of
the beholder.

Monika



--
--
Monika Schleidt

www.schleidt.org/MSKeramik
if you wish to write me a mail, remove the number from my user name
  #23  
Old June 1st 05, 08:25 PM
DKat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yeah... Like when you get the perfect glaze combination that is oh so
sweet... There is a certain magic in the craft and every kiln opening is a
like opening a treasure chest. I love it!

wrote in message
oups.com...
you've got something there ~ the *craft* process is sure fun, and when
done we often say "now THAT's one nice piece!" followed by, "yeah, and
look at THIS one!".

~ make more!

we just had a raku party the other night - some 40 people. you should
have heard the conversations around the finished pieces table that
night..

for me, a fat guy former gymnast, pottery is very much like gymnastics.
we learn the technique, and try & try & try again to make that perfect
pot. it's simply fun enough to stay at it. yet with the right passion
we slowly get into the 8's and 9's with our work.

see ya

steve



Johnny wrote:
I have enjoyed the debate that is going on concerning art and craft.
This may be oversimplified, but I have always considered making the
pot, the sculptural form, or painting, as the craft. The art is the
result of the craft, or the actual piece. Just my 2 cents.

Johnny Horner
http://www.pawpawspottery.freeservers.com




  #24  
Old June 3rd 05, 05:32 AM
A & V
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I haven't had a chance to visit here for a while, and now half of the
discussion is not accessible. Pity. Monika - English word is possibly
"maker" that some people use to describe themselves ( not a perfect
translation, though)
However, I was browsing through my papers and found a Quote from Douglas
Adams that I found worthwhile coping:

...."I get very worried about this idea of Art. I think that idea of Art
kills creativity.
.....And if somebody wants to come along and say"oh,it's art" that is as it
might be,but I think that's for the other people to decide after the fact.
It isn't what you should be aiming to do. There is nothing worse than
sitting down to write a novel and saying "well, okay, I'm going to do
something of high artistic worth".....But I think that you get most of the
most interesting things done in fields where people don't think they are
doing art, bat are merely practicing a craft, and working as good craftsman.
....I tend to get suspicious of anything that thinks it's art while it is
being created....."

what do you think??
Andrea




"Monika Schleidt" wrote in message
...
Xtra News wrote:
What do you all think of this article?? Be really interested to hear,

do
you like his work. I love it, but it sure is controversial. I listened

to
him give a talk a couple months ago. A very interesting man.
Anyway here is the article
http://nzpotters.com/FeatureArticles/GraysonPerry.cfm


I, for one, don't want to be an artist, i am a craftsperson. (there is
no real good word in english for what i am, in german it is Handwerker,
- handworker doesn't mean anything, handyman is something else.) I
thrive to make good pottery, not art. One definition i thought about,
(which doesn't work for everything either) is, - art represents
something else, craft represents itself. If i paint a picture, make a
sculpture, it will be the picture of something, a sculpture of
something. If i make a teapot, it will be a teapot, if i make a mug, it
will be a mug. Of course then you get potters who make frogs for the
garden, are they artists?
For me, the piece i produce should fulfill the function for which it is
made in the first place, when it is beautiful on top of it, great. If i
make a teapot, it should be good to hold, pour well, the lid shouldn't
fall off when you pour...... whether it is pleasing is up to the eye of
the beholder.

Monika



--
--
Monika Schleidt

www.schleidt.org/MSKeramik
if you wish to write me a mail, remove the number from my user name



  #25  
Old June 3rd 05, 04:34 PM
Stephanie Coleman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I agree. And I agree with Grayson Perry. Part of what I see as an issue is
that some people feel that craft is somehow less worthy than art. And that
is not true. To me craft implies technical competence and art implies
emotion and expression. They are not exclusive of each other. I feel that
there are craftspeople who are not artists - perhaps to be less
controversial a newsreporter is a craftsperson...but a poet is an
artist....and when that newsreporter is writing poetry he is an artist. Now
an artist has a craft....and may be competent or maybe practicing. Let's
take poetry. One could follow the rules of haiku to write an automobile ad
and that is low on the artistic scale, but successful on the craft scale.
Children's pictures are often high on the artistic scale (especially
therapeutic works) but because of their lack of skill, may not be high on
the "craft" of painting, drawing etc. Most of us work hard to improve our
craft so that we can be more successful and more pleased personally or
professionally with our expression. As a potter, I work on new skills and
improving old ones so I have multiple ways to express or build what is in my
head....my craft though remains mediocre.

I also think that one can become so focused on craft and technique that they
lose balance and find themselves with technically wonderful work that is not
very interesting or even personally satisfying. It may. however, still be
very profitable. I have an acquaintance who does wildlife art. His style
is pen and ink pointillism - and he says he pursues this because it sells.
He is very technically competent, but has works do not pull emotion from
folks - but they are very decorative and sell well. However, he is not
happy and doesn't enjoy doing these. But by his own admission, he keeps
score by $$$. (And fibs about his sales!)

Of course having spent the first half of my life in the corporate world, I
may have a different personal definition. I do believe that the business
person is a craftsperson...and can be very competent - even at high levels,
but not an artist. However, there is also an art to business that comes
from inspiration, creativity. To me invention is art. Alexander Graham
Bell's first phone is a work of art. But then I have some antique garden
tools that I feel are art...not in the "garden art" decorative sense...but
art because of the stories of use and gardens past that they evoke in my
mind's eye.

Well I have rambled long for a rainy Friday, I think I shall wander into my
studio.

--
Stephanie Coleman
University of Phoenix Online

alt email:
706.467.9579
"Xtra News" wrote in message
...

"A & V" wrote in message
...
I Have just read the article - thanks Annemarie - and I am surprised at
some
peoples reaction. I dont find the article derogarotive. Why such hostile
reaction to what it says?
So, I went over it again and I tend to agree with most things he says.
Actualy, almost all of it. Actualy, I cant find anything that I strongly
disagree with. He touched lots of aspects of art/craft in a very brief
way
here... skimed the surface of many (perhaps painful )issues. I would like
to
read more and in depth opinions.
As soon as I get some ink for my ever hungry printer, I will print the
article ant stick it on the wall in the studio to remind me who I am and
where I want to be.
Thanks again Annemarie!!
Andrea


Its a pleasure. We changed server and for some reason the newsgroups were
not working properly for a while and consiquently I ended up starting a
thread and then missing most of the interesting comments after.
I tend to agree with a lot of what he said too, whats more I think his
work is really great. The fact that the posts are handmade makes them
less perfect than thrown vessels but thats ok with me.
I listened to a talk by him when he came to NZ and he was dressed in a
little girl dress then too. He was fascinating to listen to, very
knowledgable charming. He showed slides of his work and life and there
were a couple of photos of him in adult female clothing and he actually
looked pretty good )
Whatever, I think that fact that he is a tranny is irrelevant to his work.
Some of his work is challenging, ie the subject matter is rather strong,
but it sure as heck evokes a response, and that to me means art )
Annemarie




  #26  
Old June 4th 05, 04:48 AM
A & V
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nicely said Stephanie!
Andrea

"Stephanie Coleman" wrote in message
...
I agree. And I agree with Grayson Perry. Part of what I see as an issue

is
that some people feel that craft is somehow less worthy than art. And

that
is not true. To me craft implies technical competence and art implies
emotion and expression. They are not exclusive of each other. I feel

that
there are craftspeople who are not artists - perhaps to be less
controversial a newsreporter is a craftsperson...but a poet is an
artist....and when that newsreporter is writing poetry he is an artist.

Now
an artist has a craft....and may be competent or maybe practicing. Let's
take poetry. One could follow the rules of haiku to write an automobile

ad
and that is low on the artistic scale, but successful on the craft scale.
Children's pictures are often high on the artistic scale (especially
therapeutic works) but because of their lack of skill, may not be high on
the "craft" of painting, drawing etc. Most of us work hard to improve our
craft so that we can be more successful and more pleased personally or
professionally with our expression. As a potter, I work on new skills and
improving old ones so I have multiple ways to express or build what is in

my
head....my craft though remains mediocre.

I also think that one can become so focused on craft and technique that

they
lose balance and find themselves with technically wonderful work that is

not
very interesting or even personally satisfying. It may. however, still be
very profitable. I have an acquaintance who does wildlife art. His style
is pen and ink pointillism - and he says he pursues this because it

sells.
He is very technically competent, but has works do not pull emotion from
folks - but they are very decorative and sell well. However, he is not
happy and doesn't enjoy doing these. But by his own admission, he keeps
score by $$$. (And fibs about his sales!)

Of course having spent the first half of my life in the corporate world, I
may have a different personal definition. I do believe that the business
person is a craftsperson...and can be very competent - even at high

levels,
but not an artist. However, there is also an art to business that comes
from inspiration, creativity. To me invention is art. Alexander Graham
Bell's first phone is a work of art. But then I have some antique garden
tools that I feel are art...not in the "garden art" decorative sense...but
art because of the stories of use and gardens past that they evoke in my
mind's eye.

Well I have rambled long for a rainy Friday, I think I shall wander into

my
studio.

--
Stephanie Coleman
University of Phoenix Online

alt email:
706.467.9579
"Xtra News" wrote in message
...

"A & V" wrote in message
...
I Have just read the article - thanks Annemarie - and I am surprised at
some
peoples reaction. I dont find the article derogarotive. Why such

hostile
reaction to what it says?
So, I went over it again and I tend to agree with most things he says.
Actualy, almost all of it. Actualy, I cant find anything that I

strongly
disagree with. He touched lots of aspects of art/craft in a very brief
way
here... skimed the surface of many (perhaps painful )issues. I would

like
to
read more and in depth opinions.
As soon as I get some ink for my ever hungry printer, I will print the
article ant stick it on the wall in the studio to remind me who I am

and
where I want to be.
Thanks again Annemarie!!
Andrea


Its a pleasure. We changed server and for some reason the newsgroups

were
not working properly for a while and consiquently I ended up starting a
thread and then missing most of the interesting comments after.
I tend to agree with a lot of what he said too, whats more I think his
work is really great. The fact that the posts are handmade makes them
less perfect than thrown vessels but thats ok with me.
I listened to a talk by him when he came to NZ and he was dressed in a
little girl dress then too. He was fascinating to listen to, very
knowledgable charming. He showed slides of his work and life and there
were a couple of photos of him in adult female clothing and he actually
looked pretty good )
Whatever, I think that fact that he is a tranny is irrelevant to his

work.
Some of his work is challenging, ie the subject matter is rather strong,
but it sure as heck evokes a response, and that to me means art )
Annemarie






 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
article about sewing in today's Baltimore Sun Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen Needlework 9 November 20th 04 08:10 PM
extra money for your crafts Onemoredrunk Marketplace 0 October 11th 04 01:44 AM
Newsweek Article Kathryn Yarn 3 January 26th 04 03:40 PM
HOW TO TURN $6 INTO $6000 AnthonyT12341234 Marketplace 0 January 6th 04 12:24 AM
old magazine article walkermetalsmith General Crafting 0 December 5th 03 07:28 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.