Am I missing something in this auction?

I guess I'm not seeing what Ozwald is supposed to be getting out of all
this... he buys the stuff and sells it cheaper. How does that possibly
benefit him??

Karin

Kalera Stratton wrote:

What I'm saying is that Jerzeygirl is bidding AGAINST Ozwald, then
buying the same pendant she bid up, from Ozwald, at a lower price. There
is nothing "cool" about that. Look at Jerseygirl's feedback. Look at the
bid history on Orrzo's hearts. There is something *extremely* sketchy
going on, and as I advised Orrzo himself on WC, he's be wise to look
into it before eBay does.

Look at the bid history of the pendant I posted... Jerseygirl bid $60,
Ozwald bid $61 and won it, then sold it to Jerseygirl with a Buy It Now
of $25. *The same pattern follows for every other one of Orrzo's hearts
that Ozwald won*. There are some that didn't get bid up very high;
regardless, Ozwald sells them all to Jerseygirl for a buy It Now of $25.
Look at Ozwald's completed auctions. I haven't looked at his other boro
pendant aucions simply because I was looking at Orrzo's work
specifically; however, if you look at Ozwald's feedback you can see that
he buys all sorts of pendants, primarily from Orrzo. If Orrzo is simply
being used for the purposes of some kind of larger scam, I feel really
sorry for him; he really needs to look into it and cover his butt,
though, because this is the kind of thing that can ruin a career.

Ozwald and Jerseygirl are up to something, and whatever it is, it ain't
right.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay

Karen_AZ wrote:
Look longer and harder (as Orrza himself did).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...5&postcount=89

This Ozwald7 is buying and reselling SEVERAL other beadmaker's beads, as
Tink also noted. Sometimes successfully, sometimes at a loss, sometimes not
reselling them at all. It's bizarre on Ozwald7's part, to be sure, but
considering Orrza isn't the only "victim" I don't think he's at fault. And
if jerseygirl is willing to pay, cool on her.

Ozwald7 is selling quite a lot of items, in a variety of categories. What
the motivation is for buying and reselling like that isn't clear to me at
all (maybe a perceived bargain/flea-market thing?).

KarenK

I have no idea. It would seem that Jerzeygirl and Ozwald are partners;
they certainly seem to be teamed up. Why is a whole 'nuther question,
and I don't have a clue.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


Karin Cernik wrote:
I guess I'm not seeing what Ozwald is supposed to be getting out of all
this... he buys the stuff and sells it cheaper. How does that possibly
benefit him??

Karin

Kalera Stratton wrote:

What I'm saying is that Jerzeygirl is bidding AGAINST Ozwald, then
buying the same pendant she bid up, from Ozwald, at a lower price. There
is nothing "cool" about that. Look at Jerseygirl's feedback. Look at the
bid history on Orrzo's hearts. There is something *extremely* sketchy
going on, and as I advised Orrzo himself on WC, he's be wise to look
into it before eBay does.

Look at the bid history of the pendant I posted... Jerseygirl bid $60,
Ozwald bid $61 and won it, then sold it to Jerseygirl with a Buy It Now
of $25. *The same pattern follows for every other one of Orrzo's hearts
that Ozwald won*. There are some that didn't get bid up very high;
regardless, Ozwald sells them all to Jerseygirl for a buy It Now of $25.
Look at Ozwald's completed auctions. I haven't looked at his other boro
pendant aucions simply because I was looking at Orrzo's work
specifically; however, if you look at Ozwald's feedback you can see that
he buys all sorts of pendants, primarily from Orrzo. If Orrzo is simply
being used for the purposes of some kind of larger scam, I feel really
sorry for him; he really needs to look into it and cover his butt,
though, because this is the kind of thing that can ruin a career.

Ozwald and Jerseygirl are up to something, and whatever it is, it ain't
right.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay

Karen_AZ wrote:

Look longer and harder (as Orrza himself did).

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...5&postcount=89

This Ozwald7 is buying and reselling SEVERAL other beadmaker's beads, as
Tink also noted. Sometimes successfully, sometimes at a loss, sometimes not
reselling them at all. It's bizarre on Ozwald7's part, to be sure, but
considering Orrza isn't the only "victim" I don't think he's at fault. And
if jerseygirl is willing to pay, cool on her.

Ozwald7 is selling quite a lot of items, in a variety of categories. What
the motivation is for buying and reselling like that isn't clear to me at
all (maybe a perceived bargain/flea-market thing?).

KarenK

I think it's along Tina's line of thinking, money being sent somewhere. Can you
money launder electronically?

It would seem that Jerzeygirl and Ozwald are partners;
they certainly seem to be teamed up. Why is a whole 'nuther question,
and I don't have a clue.

-Kalera


..Stephanie.

Gotta Question?
Google: rec.craft.bead
http://tinyurl.com/5wm36

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I'd love to see why they are so valuable. Perhaps you could post his
website so we get a bigger, better picture of his artistry.

Tina



Orrza (the artist in question) has posted over on WC! regarding this.
Basically, he has a pretty loyal following that loves his work - which is
great. I didn't mean for this to turn into a slamfest, but it did and for
that I'm sorry. I just didn't see a $400 bead there, kwim? But there are
certainly times when I wish I could spend that kind of dough on beads
that
really speak to me.

Barbara


$400?

Huh?

http://snipurl.com/b82l

--
Barbara

I still don't see any definitive proof. Suspicious, maybe. But still - why
why why are we being so judgemental?
Even if it is proven that this person shills, I still feel like the
beadmaking community consistently and unnecessarily attacks anyone who has
success on ebay. It's just.......icky. Oh, well - it looks like I am in
the minority.
--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

After posting my previous opinionated but foundless opinion, I actually
did some research and it looks like our more suspicious crew members were
right to trust their instincts:

http://snipurl.com/b9cd

http://snipurl.com/b9ce

http://snipurl.com/b9ca

http://snipurl.com/b9cf

I figured that if there's shilling, the item will reurn to eBay for sale
not long after being sold. A little digging, and pouf; I'm a hardcore
benefit-of-the-doubt girl, but that there is shilling. Fraud, ladies and
gentlemen.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay

Barbara Forbes-Lyons wrote:
$400?

Huh?

http://snipurl.com/b82l

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:01:57 -0800, "Kandice Seeber"
wrote:

I still don't see any definitive proof. Suspicious, maybe. But still - why
why why are we being so judgemental?
Even if it is proven that this person shills, I still feel like the
beadmaking community consistently and unnecessarily attacks anyone who has
success on ebay. It's just.......icky. Oh, well - it looks like I am in
the minority.

Well, I'm in your corner on this one, Kandice. I personally don't have
time to take care of my own business, much less the time to mind the
business of others. I can't believe the attention this has gotten.
It's embarassing to me as a flameworker.

Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

I personally am not embarrassed - just a little confused as to why the
beadmaking community can sometimes be so.....elitist.
It's one thing to give constructive criticism to someone who asks for it,
but I think posting someone's art in public and then asking the general
populice to question the validity of the price is just.....tacky - and it
doesn't make sense to me. I understand that malicious intention is usually
not there, but it just makes me sad that people can't just accept the fact
that ebay and other auction prices are set by the market, and that our
artwork is incredibly personal and subjective. What I see as beautiful
might be ickworthy to someone else, and so forth. So someone wants to pay
$400 for a heart pendant. I say great! Shilling? Maybe, maybe not - but
if people think so, reporting it to ebay is the solution - not hashing it
out in public where anyone can see and get hurt. We're talking about
someone's business here. If it were you, wouldn't you be hurt, ****ed off,
embarrassed? Especially if it turned out that you were the victim?

Goddess, I don't want to sound like people's mother here. That's not my
intent, of course. I count you all as my friends. But I have seen so many
instances where bead auctions are pointed out and talked about negatively by
our peers, and I just think it's unnecessary and unprofessional. Talking
privately is one thing, but this group and WC are as public as it gets in
our beadmaking community.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


I still don't see any definitive proof. Suspicious, maybe. But still -
why
why why are we being so judgemental?
Even if it is proven that this person shills, I still feel like the
beadmaking community consistently and unnecessarily attacks anyone who has
success on ebay. It's just.......icky. Oh, well - it looks like I am in
the minority.

Well, I'm in your corner on this one, Kandice. I personally don't have
time to take care of my own business, much less the time to mind the
business of others. I can't believe the attention this has gotten.
It's embarassing to me as a flameworker.

Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

I still don't see any definitive proof. Suspicious, maybe. But still -
why why why are we being so judgemental?
Even if it is proven that this person shills, I still feel like the
beadmaking community consistently and unnecessarily attacks anyone who has
success on ebay. It's just.......icky. Oh, well - it looks like I am in
the minority.

I'm with you, Kandice. These endless copying threads and other "I'm so
bemused at these bids" threads are incredibly childish and, as someone
mentioned on WC, a total waste of precious beadmaking time.

I think it reflects worse on the critics than anyone else.

KarenK

Tink wrote:

Well, I'm in your corner on this one, Kandice. I personally don't have
time to take care of my own business, much less the time to mind the
business of others. I can't believe the attention this has gotten.
It's embarassing to me as a flameworker.

I came, I looked, I shrugged.

More power to him if it's legitimate.

If it's not, it should be taken care of privately. Through the proper
channels, not in a kangaroo court.

-Su
--
Tillerman eBay shop: http://stores.ebay.com/thetillermanbeads
Tillerman website: http://www.tillerman.co.uk

omtp

Kandice Seeber wrote:

I personally am not embarrassed - just a little confused as to why the
beadmaking community can sometimes be so.....elitist.
It's one thing to give constructive criticism to someone who asks for it,
but I think posting someone's art in public and then asking the general
populice to question the validity of the price is just.....tacky - and it
doesn't make sense to me. I understand that malicious intention is usually
not there, but it just makes me sad that people can't just accept the fact
that ebay and other auction prices are set by the market, and that our
artwork is incredibly personal and subjective. What I see as beautiful
might be ickworthy to someone else, and so forth. So someone wants to pay
$400 for a heart pendant. I say great! Shilling? Maybe, maybe not - but
if people think so, reporting it to ebay is the solution - not hashing it
out in public where anyone can see and get hurt. We're talking about
someone's business here. If it were you, wouldn't you be hurt, ****ed off,
embarrassed? Especially if it turned out that you were the victim?

Goddess, I don't want to sound like people's mother here. That's not my
intent, of course. I count you all as my friends. But I have seen so many
instances where bead auctions are pointed out and talked about negatively by
our peers, and I just think it's unnecessary and unprofessional. Talking
privately is one thing, but this group and WC are as public as it gets in
our beadmaking community.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


I still don't see any definitive proof. Suspicious, maybe. But still -
why
why why are we being so judgemental?
Even if it is proven that this person shills, I still feel like the
beadmaking community consistently and unnecessarily attacks anyone who has
success on ebay. It's just.......icky. Oh, well - it looks like I am in
the minority.

Well, I'm in your corner on this one, Kandice. I personally don't have
time to take care of my own business, much less the time to mind the
business of others. I can't believe the attention this has gotten.
It's embarassing to me as a flameworker.

Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm