Propane regulator question

"Meredith Williams" wrote in message
...
Hi Giselle,

I set up a shed studio in my backyard last fall and I was asking the same
questions. I don't use propane at all in my house, so I had a 100 lb tank
installed for the shed to supply both the torch (minor burner) and the
wall mounted heater. The tank is about 10 feet from the shed sitting on a
concrete pad. Copper tubing runs underground to the corner of the shed
where it goes into a 25psi regulator. The output of the 25psi reg is then
split into 2 separate lines - one goes to another regulator that brings
the pressure down to the 1/2psi for the heater; the other line goes to a
single-stage propane regulator* (with gauges for tank and line pressure)
that can be adjusted from 0 to 25psi. Both lines coming into the shed
have their own shut-off valves, and there is a master shutoff at the tank.

*I bought the torch, hoses and regulator from Arrowsprings

Meredith

GREAT ideas. Where did you get your propane heater? I'll need one of those
in a few more months, too.

I was surprised when the propane guy said a house tank ran on 1/2 psi --
whodda thunk it? -- but I guess you just confirmed it.

You didn't get the flashback arrester, though. Any reason why? I know that
someone said in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) that the dual feed
torches don't need the arrester and I was glad to hear that.

Giselle

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:49:31 -0500, "Fragile Warrior Bees"
wrote:

You didn't get the flashback arrester, though. Any reason why? I know that
someone said in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) that the dual feed
torches don't need the arrester and I was glad to hear that.

It's the surface mix torches (as opposed to premix) that don't need
them.

Tink Martin - Art Glass
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

"Tinkster" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:49:31 -0500, "Fragile Warrior Bees"
wrote:

You didn't get the flashback arrester, though. Any reason why? I know
that
someone said in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) that the dual feed
torches don't need the arrester and I was glad to hear that.

It's the surface mix torches (as opposed to premix) that don't need
them.

Tink Martin - Art Glass
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

Right, and that was you that said that, right? Sorry, I forgot your name
and the wording but the general idea stuck with me.

Giselle (gettin' old)

Fragile Warrior Bees wrote:
"Kalera" wrote in message
...

You should be able to just use a pancake regulator with most torches; it's
a cheap little doohickey and drops the pressure down to about what you
need, which is, depending on your torch, 5-10 PSI. A two-stage regulator
is going to be a very large and not entirely necessary expense; most
people do fine with single-stage regulators at half the cost. Pancake
regulators are a fraction of even that cost.


I'm not entirely sure if I'm buying the regulator or renting it at this
point. We'll have to see.


I'm mildly alarmed that Mr. Propane & Propane Accessories doesn't know
what a flashback arrestor is. :O! All it is, is essentially a backflow
valve that prevents anything (FIRE) from flowing backward into the tank
and causing an explosion.


Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest to
God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East
Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave him
the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly occur.
Their welding torches do not use it.

But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on
fire!

You might want to check your Yellow Pages for a welding supply shop in
your area. Their torches are very similar and the way you set them up is
virtually identical, so they will probably be many times more helpful.
They'll have the right hoses, regulators, quick-connects, flashback
arrestors, the works.


Nearest welding place is like 50 miles away. I was hoping to find something
closer to home but I'll keep it in mind in case I need to go elsewhere.

Thx,
Giselle



--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

Very interesting! I didn't know that the functionality of the arrestor
is tied to the pressure. I probably run my regulator far too low for the
arrestor to be useful, then.

I did know that flashback arrestors aren't really necessary on
surface-mix torches because they don't flashback, but it's kind of a
nice notion in case of the also incredibly unlikely hose rupture.

Tinkster wrote:
Pancake regulators don't typically offer enough pressure to allow a
flashback arrestor to work. The good news is that for a surface mix
torch, an arrestor really isn't required.

Tink Martin - Art Glass
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

"Kalera" wrote in message
...

Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest
to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East
Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave
him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly
occur. Their welding torches do not use it.

But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on
fire!

No, he meant propane ON. Even if turned off in incorrect order, he said no,
couldn't happen. shrug

Giselle (we'll see. If I make the news, you'll know he was wrong. Sue him
for me, 'kay?)

Flashback can happen when you're actually using a torch, not when the
tank valve is closed. It's not a likely occurrence, made more or less
nonexistent by using a surface-mix torch. I'm just baffled and a bit
appalled that he denies that it occurs at all and has never even heard
of flashback arrestors, ever, despite the fact that A: Flashback is a
well-known phenomenon, and B: the arrestors are standard equipment
available at every welding and glass supply store. I personally know
boro workers using premix torches that have had non-catastrophic flashbacks.

http://www.toolboxtopics.com/Gen%20I...0Flashback.htm
http://info.anu.edu.au/hr/OHS/Hazard..._Arrestors.asp
http://www.murexwelding.co.uk/mrxcont/gas/mrxgcse.htm
http://www.iigas.com/fba.htm
http://www.butbro.co.uk/flashback.htm

Obviously, since you're using a surface-mix torch, it's not really an
issue for you. However, his ignorance on this matter tends to make me
worry about the validity of his knowledge in other areas... for example,
renting you a regulator. They're not *that* expensive! A pancake
regulator can be had for about $12! It may benefit you to run stuff by
us here, or a place like ISGB.org, Artglassforum.com, or
Lampworketc.com, populated by glass techie types, before you go by what
Mr. Propane & Propane Accessories tells you.


Fragile Warrior Bees wrote:
"Kalera" wrote in message
...


Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end. Honest
to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in East
Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I gave
him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could possibly
occur. Their welding torches do not use it.

But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on
fire!


No, he meant propane ON. Even if turned off in incorrect order, he said no,
couldn't happen. shrug

Giselle (we'll see. If I make the news, you'll know he was wrong. Sue him
for me, 'kay?)



--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

I work at 6-7 PSI with my Minor and concentrator. With tanked oxy I worked
a little higher - like 10 PSI.

I believe flashback arrestors are used more for tanked oxy, because there's
more pressure there, and it's always on. But there's no need for one on a
concentrator, because of the way it works - there's not enough pressure, and
you're turning it off daily. Bleeding your propane lines every night will
help reduce the risk of any flashbacks, but even if there was a risk, it
wouldbe tiny due to the lack of sufficient pressure.

You will want regulators that will read very low PSI, and you'll want to buy
it. I think I got mine for $50 each or something like that. But don't
quote me because it has been awhile.

Seriously, though - doing tanked oxy is such a serious hassle and a pain.
If you can afford the $300 for a concentrator, chances are you will never
have to deal with oxygen hassles ever again. Just clean the filter with
soap and water when it's dirty and keep an eye on your humidity and you're
set. If you ever need maintenance, there are people who can help.

--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net

I'm working with our local propane (and propane accessories guy to get
a 100# propane tank for the studio. He has some regulators on hand and
has asked specifically what sort of PSI lampworking uses for the propane
end of the mix. Can someone help me with that? In the books or sites
I've seen, they talk about one-stage and two-stage regulators but they
never mention the PSI needs. He has the two-stage regulators, I believe.

Also, he thought that a flashback arrester was just sort of a gimmick. He
had actually never heard of the term and is going home at lunch to look at
the site where I first saw them to find out what they are. What's
everyone's opinion on this bit of info? Does he not know what he's
talking about, is the terminology just odd or are they a gimmick?

Thx,
Giselle

Yeah, that is pretty weird. I got my flashback arrestors at Frantz, but
it's the welding store guy that told me how to hook it up.

--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net

Flashback can happen when you're actually using a torch, not when the tank
valve is closed. It's not a likely occurrence, made more or less
nonexistent by using a surface-mix torch. I'm just baffled and a bit
appalled that he denies that it occurs at all and has never even heard of
flashback arrestors, ever, despite the fact that A: Flashback is a
well-known phenomenon, and B: the arrestors are standard equipment
available at every welding and glass supply store. I personally know boro
workers using premix torches that have had non-catastrophic flashbacks.

http://www.toolboxtopics.com/Gen%20I...0Flashback.htm
http://info.anu.edu.au/hr/OHS/Hazard..._Arrestors.asp
http://www.murexwelding.co.uk/mrxcont/gas/mrxgcse.htm
http://www.iigas.com/fba.htm
http://www.butbro.co.uk/flashback.htm

Obviously, since you're using a surface-mix torch, it's not really an
issue for you. However, his ignorance on this matter tends to make me
worry about the validity of his knowledge in other areas... for example,
renting you a regulator. They're not *that* expensive! A pancake regulator
can be had for about $12! It may benefit you to run stuff by us here, or a
place like ISGB.org, Artglassforum.com, or Lampworketc.com, populated by
glass techie types, before you go by what Mr. Propane & Propane
Accessories tells you.


Fragile Warrior Bees wrote:
"Kalera" wrote in message
...


Yep, he said that can't happen. No propane = no flame. The end.
Honest to God, unless they call it something entirely different here in
East Bubblebutt, Indiana, he did not know what I was talking about. I
gave him the backwash scenerio and he said he did not think it could
possibly occur. Their welding torches do not use it.

But there would, indeed, be propane. It is the propane that would be on
fire!


No, he meant propane ON. Even if turned off in incorrect order, he said
no, couldn't happen. shrug

Giselle (we'll see. If I make the news, you'll know he was wrong. Sue
him for me, 'kay?)

--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

All propane tanks must be kept outside whenever possible. Leaks can be
deadly, and they do happen.

--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net

Giselle, the pressure you need is determined in large part by the
torch you have. What torch will you be using?

A Nortel Minor.


Also, the propane tank will be outside the studio, yes?

We're deciding. Since we operate the house on propane, there's a 300#
tank between the house and the studio location. The "studio" will be a
room sectioned off in a large, empty metal structure. The tank can be
place anywhere at this point but are you asking if it will it be far away
from open flame? Far enough. I'm chicken. But I am getting used to
living around tanks of propane that can obliterate all life in a 1/2 mile
area.