Hurricane Charley

On 8/19/04 11:06 PM, in article ,
"Deb" wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:57:08 GMT, Rhiannon
wrote:

So you are saying the people are just sheep and won't go unless someone
says they must. That is like people under a tornado warning thinking

While I won't call them sheep, unfortunately, there are far too many
what will *not* go until told, and a fair percentage of them that
won't go even then.



Then call them goats!

Cheryl
(who was at the petting farm yesterday)

On 19 Aug 2004 21:08:55 GMT, (Texasxsgal1) opined:

Here in Norway, there are striped crossings in the middle of long stretches
of road. And if a driver sees somebody at the crossing, the driver STOPS.

This happened to me in singapore too. Was there on a visiit. Saw car coming so
I waited. Car came to cross walk and STOPPED. I stand there like an idiot
wondering what is suddenly wrong with the car. then i realize yhe driver
stooped for ME LOLOL
At that time i was living in Bangkok, where the joke is the driver makes merit
for hitting a pedestrian -- double merit for getting a foeigner LOLOL
kathy
san antonio

They do that in Italy, also. They drive like maniacs, but when someone is in
the walk, they come to a halt. It's the funniest thing.





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Yes, but then one would have to give credit for kids who turn out okay, right?
I disagree. I was not raised with any discipline, no social skills, no morality
to speak of, drug and alcohol abuse by both parents, my mother slept around, as
did my father, etc. I could give a long laundry list of things which today
would probably be cause for social services to remove me from my parents.

I am a productive member of society. I don't use drugs or alcohol (did at one
time, but got and stayed sober for over 20 years) and I have morality, values
and principles. I don't give other drivers the finger, and I never pull up into
the cross walk.

None of that had much to do with how I was raised because I was not raised. I
was left to my own devices. It's the luck of the draw, the karma, the initial
character of a person which takes them through life with either dignity, or
immorality or plain ignorant.

The ignorance I am seeing in people comes from laziness, not morality issues or
politeness training. We've discussed this before. The "dumbing" down of
America is prevalent in every aspect of life. I could write volumes on this
subject.

My primary point is, I truly believe it does not matter how a kid is raised. Of
course if my parents were the slightest bit capable, I may have been a dancer,
or musician, or performer or some other thing. On my own I applied for and
auditioned to go to the High School of Performing Arts in Manhattan. My parents
didn't even know I did that!

So, here I am; polite driver, I smile at people, have manners, help people if I
see they need help and in general I am kind and always, to a fault, generous.
Where did that come from? Not my upraising. And, while I do give my parent(s)
some credit because they took me to Broadway plays and museums, and I was one of
the only kids in Brooklyn, NY to have a horse to ride in a stable, that hardly
represents being raised proper.

Do you see my point? Societal problems far exceed the parental roles we assign
to people.

V


On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:42:30 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
opined:

I was speaking in general terms and didn't quite make myself clear
because I didn't want another paragraph. :-) Probably *most* children
behave like "primitives" during some time in their lives, despite the
best teachings.

What I was getting at was a huge social change in behavior patterns -
such as rude driving. That doesn't happen en masse unless something
else is terribly wrong. If something *is* terribly wrong, then it's the
adults who should be held responsible for allowing it happen, or short
of that, doing nothing about it. Unless, of course, they see nothing
wrong with the behavior - which I'm afraid is all too common these days.

Maybe it's in the water.
Dianne

KDLark wrote:

It is not possible to raise children in a courteous environment both in
the home and at school and have them behave like primitives when they
suddenly become 18


I've got to disagree here. Quite a few kids suddenly become rebellious and
start acting nutso, even though their parents, churches, and schools have
taught them better. Their peer group and the mass media could be behind it, or
it might be hormones. That taste of freedom can be a dangerous thing! I will
say that this "well behaved child goes off the rails" usually happens a little
earlier, though, during middle school. You don't have to ask me how I know --
I teach them.

Katrina L.






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Good for you, Becky. You made a decision and you are living your life as you
see fit.

Spitting? Well, I don't know where you live, but I grew up in New York, where
to this day there are signs in subways saying, no spitting. Doesn't stop men.
I never saw a woman spit anywhere, to be honest. It might happen, I've never
seen it.

I get almost nauseous watching sporting events with all the silly spitting that
goes on. I was thinking about this the other day while watching the swimming
team and my husband commented on all the spitting by the men's (I think they are
boys) teams. This was poolside! Where you walk barefoot. Yuk.

Down here in TX, men chew tobacco and use snuff. They are always spitting
this vile whateveritis out windows of their cars and trucks. Disgusting.

Then there's the dress code of teenagers. In my opinion, when a young woman or
girl has a tattoo on the small of her back and she wears shirts short enough and
pants low enough to see it, it means come and F me right here, right now. Don't
buy me dinner, just F me. Nice stuff.

America is in it's infancy. We have an infantile president, who may possible be
re-elected. The whole world is laughing at us and our president, who is so dumb
he doesn't know the meaning of the word sovereign.

I honor young people like yourself. You made a decision. Keep up the good
work and cherish your position in life and how fortunate you are for not having
followed the dumb faction (which gets larger every year) in America. Of course,
I'm assuming you are from the US.

V


On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:17:40 +0200, "Becky Andresen" opined:

RANT WARNING!!

*shakes head* The kids of today. Don't get me started...

I agree that there has been a shift in behavior. When I was young, you
never saw _anybody_ spit on the sidewalk. Period. It just wasn't done.
But sometime while I was in Junior High, it suddenly became very
commonplace. And it wasn't just the idiots at my school, it was ALL the
young people.

Since when is that acceptable behavior??

It just bugs the crap out of me. The girls wear less clothing then ever and
the guys are tripping over their low-slung pants. Eight year-old girls are
wearing belly shirts!

It got to the point where I despised my peers. I still do. I'm 21 years
old...and I have settled down with a husband and a house. The idiots back
home are still trying to learn how to pour the perfect beer. And the
younger ones are doing their best to try to emulate the doofuses that I grew
up with.

GAAAH! It just kills me. If this is the future...then I'm officially
becoming a Forest Hermit.

Birch...Spruce...or Maple?
Becky A.



"Dianne Lewandowski" skrev i melding
...
I was speaking in general terms and didn't quite make myself clear
because I didn't want another paragraph. :-) Probably *most* children
behave like "primitives" during some time in their lives, despite the
best teachings.

What I was getting at was a huge social change in behavior patterns -
such as rude driving. That doesn't happen en masse unless something
else is terribly wrong. If something *is* terribly wrong, then it's the
adults who should be held responsible for allowing it happen, or short
of that, doing nothing about it. Unless, of course, they see nothing
wrong with the behavior - which I'm afraid is all too common these days.

Maybe it's in the water.
Dianne








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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:44:19 -0400, Deb
opined:

You obviously have never had to manage a bachelor's quarters for
several thousand Navy and Marine personnel.

Oh. yes. they. can.

Get them out from under mom for the first time, and about 50% of them
are suddenly lobotomized.

I *know* many of these primitives were not raised that way. I saw a
number of them revert to actual human form when mom came to visit.

So true. About ten years ago we went to a Metallica concert. Of course we were
probably the oldest people there. It was held at the Dallas Starplex, which is
an amphitheater. Normally, it can hold twenty five thousand people. There are
about 5 thousand assigned seats, and the rest is wherever you can find a spot on
the lawn which has an incline of about 15%.

All these beautiful teenagers being dropped off by their parents. Clean cut
boys, ironed Metallica t-shirt, clean hair and jeans. Girls all sweet looking,
some had the piercing, but for the most part everyone looked civil. Parents
dropped off their children by the droves.

Enter the stadium and concert begins. Mosh pits full of young boys and girls
slamming into one another as hard as they could, tearing at the grass so the mud
would cover them head to toe. Girls tops came off and everyone I could see for
yards around me were screaming, fighting, vomiting, smoking pot, drinking, or
fainting from the heat. That night 10 children under the age of 18 were taken
to hospitals. Two of them almost didn't make it and were in comas for weeks
from being unconscious and under foot for so long that nobody noticed them
there. During the middle of the concert they started hosing people down. The
sprinkler system came on and they literally had hoses and were hosing them down!
I was so scared I didn't know what to do. There we were, us and about twenty
thousand insane teenagers. The music was so loud I couldn't hear it. My ear
drums were literally hurting me and I could not hear properly for about 4 days.
To this day I think I had hearing damage.

So, I suppose the point is, parents seem to not realize their children are doing
some of the things they do. I called a radio talk show the following day and
gave a rant to the parents who dropped their kids off to this type of show. I
also fought at city council for them to never allow that many kids in to these
type of concerts again. There were far too many kids crushed in to one space.
Maybe for a James Taylor concert it was okay, but for heavy metal and noise
above levels so high you could have hearing damage...no, I don't think so.

We moved out of Dallas so I don't know what goes on any more, but they do hand
out disposable ear plugs now at those concerts. Not near enough control for my
taste and certainly didn't mimic any concert I ever went to in the sixties, when
I was usually stoned out of my mind of acid.

V





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Deb wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:52:26 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:


It is not possible to raise children in a courteous environment both in
the home and at school and have them behave like primitives when they
suddenly become 18. Somebody is not doing the job somewhere along the


You obviously have never had to manage a bachelor's quarters for
several thousand Navy and Marine personnel.

Oh. yes. they. can.

Get them out from under mom for the first time, and about 50% of them
are suddenly lobotomized.

I *know* many of these primitives were not raised that way. I saw a
number of them revert to actual human form when mom came to visit.

But by the time you're 25 or so, you usually get "grown up" and do as
you were taught, especially if you are in a civilized environment. Vis,
your own observation that when mom visited, the behavior changed. So,
obviously the individuals knew what was expected. However, if everyone
around you is behaving in a more "primitive" manner, then of course,
you're not going to revert to lessons taught.

Society works by pressure exerted. If we're not working in tandem
(national norms and expected behavior), then chaos reigns. It's adults
who set the standards. If they're not setting them . . . . . then you
have the situation as you described.
Dianne

escapee wrote:

Yes, but then one would have to give credit for kids who turn out okay, right?
I disagree. I was not raised with any discipline, no social skills, no morality
to speak of, drug and alcohol abuse by both parents, my mother slept around, as
did my father, etc. I could give a long laundry list of things which today
would probably be cause for social services to remove me from my parents.

Your post was an interesting one. There are always miracles: The kid
in Harlem who makes it as a doctor or lawyer. The bad seed who finally
matures and becomes a model citizen.

That doesn't negate what I'm talking about. Kudos to you for making it!

Dianne

Hi Deb

We were talking about MAJOR METROPOLITAN Areas, such as INSIDE the
borders of the City Limits of cities over 100,000 people, where most
residential lots are 4 to 6 lots (families) per acre.

At even 1/2 that density (2 to 3 families per acre), you would be
drinking sewer water because that is ALL the groundwater would be.

Electrical transmission wire is CHEAP, THAT is WHY rural areas DO have
electricity and NOT the other Utilities, which are MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE
to build, operate and maintain, yet they charge only pennies compared
to what the electric companies charge.

Cable TV is comparitively new service, still in its infancy, still
learning the problems of handling transmission and maintenence.
ALL Utilities suffered major learning curves and were plagued with
problems in their infancy too!
What was electrical service like in 1900? That would be a more fair
comparison to what Cable TV has been like!
Even the early telephones were run on bare wire plagued with short
circuits because insulation of the wires was unknown at the time the
first telephones were installed.

Now, lets compare our $21.00 a month telephone service, its major
complexity, its many advancements (1920 to current), it even provides
its OWN power to the electric companies advancements since 1920 to
current.

Sure, homes use more electrical conveniences than they did in 1920
thus they use more electricity. But so do telephone users who use
their phones more, have more lines, and DEMAND clear digital lines for
their computer modems.

The telephone company cannot operate on a Grid System like the
electric company does, each circuit (each persons phone line) must be
maintained separately from switch station to their home.
The Electrical Grid is really more in comparison to the telephones
trunking system than to the end user. Just about the same number of
people are affected if the Grid goes down as if a trunkline goes down.

But for the end user service and maintenance of lines, each home has
one or more telephone lines, whereas several thousand homes can be
powered from a single electrical line.

I'm not talking through my hat when I say we are really being gouged
by the electrical generation industry and your power companies.
I worked in the leading end of a major utility for over 6 years where
most of the costs of providing the service are incurred.
An Aunt is in the Life Member Club Telephone Pioneers, having worked
in that industry her entire life.
A very close friend worked his entire life in electrical distribution
and maintenance as a comptroller so he saw the figures associated with
that end of the business.

Your local governments are responsible in part for some of the higher
costs of telephone and cable TV service, and often many other services
available in your community by forcing monopolies where none need to
be and competition would greatly benefit the community.

Federal government controls the major utilities with very little
state, county or municipal interference.
The biggest money waster in the world is dictating how much we can be
gouged by these monolithic monopolies that they are holding together.

Here is an interesting tidbit of trivia. Many years ago I used to
live on the dividing border of two electrical power suppliers. Of
course the same generating plant provided the power to both
distributors! But they each billed their customers differently and at
different rates. One company charged like most a flat kWh fee. But
the other gave incentives and double metered and charged two different
kWh rates, depending upon the usage of your electricity.
The difference in price was enough to warrant having a second meter
basin installed and a second panel box wired to the incentive devices.
They were competing with the gas company for customer appliance
choices, so this incentive was established as a long term 25 year or
longer offering to the customers.

Two distribution companies, paying the same bulk rate for electricity
from a single generating plant had prices where the lower priced
company (the one also with the incentives) undercut the other company
BIG TIME. After switching to the lower priced smaller company, my
electrical bill dropped by 40% and even though I was at the farthest
most reaches of this companies service, we were only powerless for one
ice storm in 5 years time. We did have momentary outages that last 5
seconds to 3 minutes, but those were RARE compared to the high priced
larger electrical supplier. My neighbors were without electricity
many times, but because of the defined border, could not use the
electric company I was using. Needless to say, I ALWAYS made sure the
folks on THAT side of the line KNEW what my electricity costs were!
Yep, had to rub it in! Why, because the local municipal government is
who was causing their higher costs.

EVERY Utility company consumes a fuel of some sort to provide their
services, some more than others of course.

Food for thought: Why did Alcoa Aluminum build their own dam and
install their own generators to produce their own electricity if
purchased electrical costs are so reasonable?

The answer is simple:
Electrical costs ARE NOT anywhere near reasonable!
They are so high it is CHEAPER to generate your own power.

TTUL
Gary

Deb verbositized:

Gary, please don't hit me, I just can't resist...grin

They were hillarious, sounds just about like where I live now!

We do have sanitary sewers because of the population density, but
storm drainage is a BIG ditch in the front yard.

Many of the overhead wires for telephone service and cable TV too for
that matter are well below the standard height limit, which means,
everytime a moving van or large truck comes through the residential
area, we have no phone or TV until the crews can fix it.

And the roads are so BAD, that even FedEx said they would NEVER (from
the trucking facility) pick up at our place ever again.
I HATE FedEx for many other reasons besides this. If I hand deliver
my outbound order to the FedEx terminal, I am STILL CHARGED the
$250.00 pickup charge. Since they wouldn't refund me this charge, I
made them pick up the last time here.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's impossible to get back in my hole in a
big rig. UPS, USF Dougan and all the rest, knock off the local pick
up charge if you deliver to their docks, but NOT FedEx. Or they will
come in a smaller step van like the normal UPS van you see most often
rather than bringing in a big rig. FedEx trucking is a separate
entity than FedEx carrier and they have no small trucks. Apparently
even FedEx entities don't work together very well either.

TTUL
Gary

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
escapee wrote:

Yes, but then one would have to give credit for kids who turn out okay,
right?
I disagree. I was not raised with any discipline, no social skills, no
morality
to speak of, drug and alcohol abuse by both parents, my mother slept
around, as
did my father, etc. I could give a long laundry list of things which
today
would probably be cause for social services to remove me from my
parents.

Your post was an interesting one. There are always miracles: The kid
in Harlem who makes it as a doctor or lawyer. The bad seed who finally
matures and becomes a model citizen.

That doesn't negate what I'm talking about. Kudos to you for making it!

Dianne


Have you ever been to Harlem? There are some very respectful, hard working,
extremely interested in their kids education people, who are good citizens
living there.

The media rarely reports on the good families but has a field day with the
problems in the neighborhood.