Terribly OT opinions requested...

I have two observations, Karlee. 1. Don't let yourself get too defensive.
It's hard to think clearly when you are reacting. And 2. It is reasonable
to state that partly out of fairness, you don't want to completely oust one
grandmother, and then let the other one have everything she wants. And this
is true too.

Tina


"Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message
...


| Maybe you could let your mom and dh's parents in
| a few hours after for a short visit just to see the new babe and then
ask if
| they'll wait till you are home, or maybe you'll decide the next day you
might
| want them to visit.

Good idea in theory, but mom won't leave when asked. Not when I ask her
anyway. Its like I don't have a brain and
can't deicide for myself when I've had enough. She is more impossible to
deal with than a brick wall at times.

DH's mother WILL NOT be allowed ANYWHERE near me for a long damn time.
She won't be able to get on ft riley after next
month. Period. Please, don't think for one damn minute that she will be
allowed to even SEE these kids, ever, much
less while I'm in the hospital. If there is any question on this, there
is a thread about it archived on google (OT
going to be gone UPDATE) that thoroughly explains why I don't want this
bitch near me or the kids.

If I have a VBAC, I'll be kept for a minimum of 36 hours, and if I have a
c-section I'll be kept for a minimum of 72
hours. Hospital policy. I say minimum because my doc is threatening
already to keep me double the length that HP
states....due to MAJOR complications after my first delivery (I almost
died because of a staph infection that went to my
brain following surgery)

Hugs
Karlee in Kansas

| 3. Think long and hard about the sterilization. What if, god forbid, you
| were in an accident and you lost your children.

IMO, my kids could not be replaced. By the time I recovered from the grief as much as one can after loosing a child, of
loosing them, I would most likely be too old to give birth again. I feel that my kids are a gift to me from a Higher
Power, and if the Higher Power thinks that their "number is up" then I will mourn them, remember them, and celebrate the
short time that I had them. Knowing how I deal with grief, I probably would never want to try to have more. I will
probably feel that my role as a parent was only supposed to last that long. There is also adoption. I could adopt. I
could take a child that has no parents and give them parents. I think that its impossible for me to love an adopted
child less than a genetic child.

Maybe I have a weird point of view on this, but I'm just basing it on the fact that I was born to a 14 year old
child...she gave me up for adoption because she knew that she couldn't provide for me all the things that I would need
provided. I'm grateful because I didn't have to be a burden to a 14 yo child, and I'm also grateful that there were
people out there that couldn't have kids that decided that they would love me and treat me like I *was* a genetic child.
Even as many problems that I have with my parents, as big of a PITA my mom can be, as nosy, pushy, opinionated, rude as
she can be, I still love her. I have never seen her as anything besides my mom, and if it weren't for her, I could have
wound up a child of the state, bouncing from foster home to foster home, never having much to call my own, not knowing
what it feels like to have a mom kiss your boo boo's, and not having someone to turn to when you *really* need them
(yes, she has been there for me most of the time when I really needed her.), or having someone to turn to for advice.
If it wasn't for mom, I probably would still burn water and mix the reds in with the whites.

There are a lot of babies born each year to young, unwed mothers, or families that just aren't ready emotionally or
financially to raise a kid, and the kid gets put up for adoption. A lot of them never wind up with a family to call
their own. That is why DH and I decided that adoption is an option if we decide that we want more kids. We could do
for another child what was done for me. Give them a forever family, one that will always be "theirs" even if they
aren't genetically related. Give them a stable loving family. I know of several couples in my community that are fully
capable of having kids, but decided to adopt instead. I know of one family that they had one child genetically, she had
a rough pregnancy and delivery, and from that point on, they adopted. They have 4 kids now, 3 of them are adopted.

I'm a big "pro choice" person (not my body, not my choice type of thing....even though the "other" alternative saddens
me deeply), and don't hesitate to talk about adoption to my young friends that get pregnant and don't want to keep the
baby. I tell them my own story, and my best friends story (She and her brother and sister were also adopted, all of
them got adopted by the same family), as a way to try to show them that there are other options and there are people out
there that can give their child the home that they deserve. My friends call me the "adoption advocate". I also talk to
them about how hard it is to be a mom....especially a single one. I let them know that its their choice, and regardless
of how I feel about their choice, I will be there for them. Then I help them find methods of birth control that work
for them, and that they won't have a problem sticking to. (two such young ladies I was there for during their pregnancy
and delivery (their parents wanted nothing to do with it), and helped both of them find resources for birth control (one
kept her baby, one chose adoption))

Yes, DH and I wanted another baby, but we also decided early in the pregnancy, after much prayer, thought and sessions
with both chaplains and therapists, that we would have no more than three kids. The having the third kid was totally
dependant on how this particular pregnancy went. If this pregnancy was rough on me like the first was, that is where
we were stopping, and one or both of us was going to get fixed. DH offered. I didn't have to suggest the thought to
him, and I have even tried to talk HIM out of it despite my desire to have the tubal. We decided to both get fixed
because if one method is pretty good, then two methods would be better. The chances of getting pregnant after the woman
has had a tubal and the man has had a vasectomy are astronomical according to the doc. She said in all her years as an
OBGYN, she has NEVER seen a woman get pregnant after both parties have been sterilized.

I hope that you can see my point of view a little better now...

Hugs
Karlee in Kansas

Hi Karlee,

You sound like a sensible person who has thought thru you decisions. I'm
only going to add my 2 cents on the last issue.

Sterilization is a very difficult decision, I have made the same decision
but for different reasons. I also have a sister that was given no choice on
the decision, medical reasons and was faced with the 2nd husband thing. She
like every one else learned that if some one really loves and wants to be
your mate, they will accept you as you are, not as a breeding vessel. Her
present husband has no children of his own blood but helped with her two as
if they were his blood. This has been going on for 19 years and they now
have 4 grandchildren and I would dare anyone to try and say they are not his
g-babies.

So you go girl. You make us all proud.

aka Trish

Ummm, yeah, I can completely oust one grandmother. After her history of abuse towards me and my son (previous
marriage), her nieces, nephews, and her OWN kids, I'm not going to put my kids through that. Besides, once the baby is
born, my son from the previous marriage will drop off the planet in her eyes. There will be no Christmas cards, no
hugs, no birthday wishes for him.

Her actions towards me in the last few months, and her actions towards children in general, do not warrant her getting
any kind of rights. (I have already talked to a lawyer about this in case she decides to pursue it by those means) I
don't reward my kid for bad behavior, and I'm not going to reward her for bad behavior. She has called me every name in
the book, tried to get DH to divorce me (none of her "evidence" was provable by her, and DH knows me better than that
anyway), hurt my son so deeply that he wants nothing to do with her (at 6 no less....and mandated to me that if he EVER
had to be around her again, he was moving to his dad's house), she has lied to me, she has lied to DH, and recently he
completely disowned her.

My mother does not get everything that she wants from me. She gets to take my son when it is convenient for me and DH,
not when she gets a wild hair. I don't ask her to baby-sit for me either. My kids, my responsibility. She has been
wanting for the past 5 months to come up here and organize and decorate for me (according to her I can't do either with
any aptitude) and since we have been here, hasn't made so much as a trip by the house because I don't want her to. My
mother is only allowed the freedoms that I give her with my family. If she were to pull the same stunts that DH's mom
has pulled, she wouldn't be allowed near the kids either.

I have said before that I know that I can't protect my children from everything. I *can* however protect them from
abuse at the hands of this woman. Simple solution to a simple problem. Don't let the kids near the abuser.

Hugs
Karlee in Kansas

--
Visit my web page! www.angelfire.com/ks3/karlee/index.html
Our family page: http://groups.msn.com/brennanfamilypage


--
"Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1058382803.380240@prawn...
| I have two observations, Karlee. 1. Don't let yourself get too defensive.
| It's hard to think clearly when you are reacting. And 2. It is reasonable
| to state that partly out of fairness, you don't want to completely oust one
| grandmother, and then let the other one have everything she wants. And this
| is true too.
|
| Tina
|
|
| "Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message
| ...
|
|
| | Maybe you could let your mom and dh's parents in
| | a few hours after for a short visit just to see the new babe and then
| ask if
| | they'll wait till you are home, or maybe you'll decide the next day you
| might
| | want them to visit.
|
| Good idea in theory, but mom won't leave when asked. Not when I ask her
| anyway. Its like I don't have a brain and
| can't deicide for myself when I've had enough. She is more impossible to
| deal with than a brick wall at times.
|
| DH's mother WILL NOT be allowed ANYWHERE near me for a long damn time.
| She won't be able to get on ft riley after next
| month. Period. Please, don't think for one damn minute that she will be
| allowed to even SEE these kids, ever, much
| less while I'm in the hospital. If there is any question on this, there
| is a thread about it archived on google (OT
| going to be gone UPDATE) that thoroughly explains why I don't want this
| bitch near me or the kids.
|
| If I have a VBAC, I'll be kept for a minimum of 36 hours, and if I have a
| c-section I'll be kept for a minimum of 72
| hours. Hospital policy. I say minimum because my doc is threatening
| already to keep me double the length that HP
| states....due to MAJOR complications after my first delivery (I almost
| died because of a staph infection that went to my
| brain following surgery)
|
| Hugs
| Karlee in Kansas
|
|
|
|

Celine,

I think you've hit it on the head! I know a mother who still needs to have
control over her two adopted children, who are now in their forties. Scary.

Diane

"Lee S. Billings" wrote in message
...
In article ,
snip
Bingo! Laura, you've nailed this one. It's NOT about the pregnancy, or the
labor and childbirth, or the sterilization. It's all about ownership. Does
Karlee own her body and her life, or are they her mother's? That's the
base
issue here.

Celine

She
like every one else learned that if some one really loves and wants to be
your mate, they will accept you as you are, not as a breeding vessel.

Whoa. Good one.
Kevin wanted kids, but he wants me more. We talked about it at length, because
I know belaying desires like that is a recipe for disaster. (I've been
spayed.) It works for us. We may even adopt someday, if one or both of us
gets well enough to raise a child. Fine with me!
~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

Your MIL might change (although chances are slight)

Yeah, it *could* happen. Like if they gave her an IV of thorazine. :-)
~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

On 16 Jul 2003 18:40:21 GMT, uppies (Dr. Sooz)
wrote:

3. Think long and hard about the sterilization. What if, god forbid, you
were in an accident and you lost your children.

Okay.....Why is it that people need to create genetic children in order to be
fulfilled as parents? There are over 6 billion people on this Earth. There
were less than 3 billion when I was born! Is no one paying attention to this?

I am. I don't voice my opinion about it anymore because people get
angry, but believe me, you're not the only one that worries about
this.

Why is adoption such a dirty word? My soulmate and partner was
adopted, and thank goodness for it too.

I think it is your body, your baby, your future ... and therefore your
choice. Nobody knows better what is good for you, than you. They may
think they know better, but they aren't inside you ... so they are
ignorant of many of the most significant factors that only an -inside-
perspective would give them.

Deirdre

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:52:34 -0500, "Karlee in Kansas"
wrote:

Do you guys think that I should please the planet by letting people see me in all my glory whilst I feel terribly
uncomfortable? Do you guys think that I should let the outside world turn my hospital room into a major hub of
activity? Do you think that at 27, after major complications during pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and two kids, that
I should reconsider my choice to be sterilized?

I wasn't suggesting that you include your MIL, but rather that it is fair to
say that neither grandmother gets to have everything, and, IF YOU WANT, you
can make "fairness" part of the reason to tell your mother to hold back.

Tina

..
"Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message
...
Ummm, yeah, I can completely oust one grandmother. After her history of
abuse towards me and my son (previous
marriage), her nieces, nephews, and her OWN kids, I'm not going to put my
kids through that. Besides, once the baby is
born, my son from the previous marriage will drop off the planet in her
eyes. There will be no Christmas cards, no
hugs, no birthday wishes for him.

Her actions towards me in the last few months, and her actions towards
children in general, do not warrant her getting
any kind of rights. (I have already talked to a lawyer about this in case
she decides to pursue it by those means) I
don't reward my kid for bad behavior, and I'm not going to reward her for
bad behavior. She has called me every name in
the book, tried to get DH to divorce me (none of her "evidence" was
provable by her, and DH knows me better than that
anyway), hurt my son so deeply that he wants nothing to do with her (at 6
no less....and mandated to me that if he EVER
had to be around her again, he was moving to his dad's house), she has
lied to me, she has lied to DH, and recently he
completely disowned her.

My mother does not get everything that she wants from me. She gets to
take my son when it is convenient for me and DH,
not when she gets a wild hair. I don't ask her to baby-sit for me either.
My kids, my responsibility. She has been
wanting for the past 5 months to come up here and organize and decorate
for me (according to her I can't do either with
any aptitude) and since we have been here, hasn't made so much as a trip
by the house because I don't want her to. My
mother is only allowed the freedoms that I give her with my family. If she
were to pull the same stunts that DH's mom
has pulled, she wouldn't be allowed near the kids either.

I have said before that I know that I can't protect my children from
everything. I *can* however protect them from
abuse at the hands of this woman. Simple solution to a simple problem.
Don't let the kids near the abuser.

Hugs
Karlee in Kansas

--
Visit my web page! www.angelfire.com/ks3/karlee/index.html
Our family page: http://groups.msn.com/brennanfamilypage


--
"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1058382803.380240@prawn...
| I have two observations, Karlee. 1. Don't let yourself get too
defensive.
| It's hard to think clearly when you are reacting. And 2. It is
reasonable
| to state that partly out of fairness, you don't want to completely oust
one
| grandmother, and then let the other one have everything she wants. And
this
| is true too.
|
| Tina
|
|
| "Karlee in Kansas" wrote in message
| ...
|
|
| | Maybe you could let your mom and dh's parents in
| | a few hours after for a short visit just to see the new babe and
then
| ask if
| | they'll wait till you are home, or maybe you'll decide the next day
you
| might
| | want them to visit.
|
| Good idea in theory, but mom won't leave when asked. Not when I ask
her
| anyway. Its like I don't have a brain and
| can't deicide for myself when I've had enough. She is more impossible
to
| deal with than a brick wall at times.
|
| DH's mother WILL NOT be allowed ANYWHERE near me for a long damn time.
| She won't be able to get on ft riley after next
| month. Period. Please, don't think for one damn minute that she will
be
| allowed to even SEE these kids, ever, much
| less while I'm in the hospital. If there is any question on this,
there
| is a thread about it archived on google (OT
| going to be gone UPDATE) that thoroughly explains why I don't want
this
| bitch near me or the kids.
|
| If I have a VBAC, I'll be kept for a minimum of 36 hours, and if I
have a
| c-section I'll be kept for a minimum of 72
| hours. Hospital policy. I say minimum because my doc is threatening
| already to keep me double the length that HP
| states....due to MAJOR complications after my first delivery (I almost
| died because of a staph infection that went to my
| brain following surgery)
|
| Hugs
| Karlee in Kansas
|
|
|
|