Terribly OT opinions requested...

Similarly, I don't think everyone should be a parent or needs to want to be
a parent (eg, my daughter is not very nurturing).

How true. And sadly, I've seen the "shouldn't be parents" too often.

My brother's case for example...

The boy shouldn't be allowed to reproduce until he's at least 30. (I'm his
sister, I can say that. lol) He's 24 now and has a lot of growing up to do.

Anyhoo...supposidly, he has a kid by this wench - um - girl and it turns out
that it might not even be his. Now my brother may be childish, but he's the
type who's lovey-dovey with *everybody's* kids.

Well, this girl is lost. Totally. We all just recently had to join forces to
get her out of my mom's house. She got kicked out by her "crazy" mom and with 2
kids, is now jumping from house to house.

She rarely fed them, left them alone with my mom, (she would run off in the
middle of the night and I guess just expected my mom to jump up and take care
of the kids if needed) the youngest is starting to walk, which means she's
bumping into things. The little girl has whacked her little bean on the wall a
few times and that bitch didn't even check to see if she was ok. When she
cried, she just yelled at the kid to shut up. Then she decided to claim child
abuse on my brother. Not formally, mind you, but just the same.

This chick is prime example of someone who shouldn't have kids. Mainly because
she has no idea what she's doing, she'd too young (IMO) and she just doesn't
seem to care. Personally, I think it's more for the welfare checks she gets.


Rachel T.
Damn right I'm good in bed. I can sleep for days.

Ahhh... yes.. I do see.
They want a mini me, not a baby.
Gotcha now. :-)
I misread your statement to be a blanket statement...Im sorry. But, on the
other hand, it did give me a chance to talk about my three favorite females!
:-)
Diana

--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44

"Dr. Sooz" wrote in message
...
My love of
seeing my mom, sister and myself in Meg isnt ego tho.

Oh, no, I didn't mean that. I meant that having it be
*absolutely*necessary*
to see yourself in your child is ego. Of *course* it is a pleasure, a
connectedness! I wouldn't deny that for a second. But people who NEED to
have
their child reflect them, so cannot adopt because of this requirement,
have a
bit of a Problem, you know?
~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

On 17 Jul 2003 20:24:57 GMT, uppies (Dr. Sooz)
wrote:

However, if there are no physical constraints I do not see why I
should not have a child or two (current plan is two, only after we feel
"ready"
which we hope will be around 28/29 years of age)

But Marisa -- nowhere in any of your posts about this do I see you say you
really WANT children. Just that it is an important part of life.
~~
Sooz

She did say when they feel "ready", which usually
translates to "want". And around 29 to 30 is when
the female's biological clock starts really hammering
her about NOW being the time. She may very well
find herself wanting a child around the time frame
she has chosen. If not, she will also be more
mature, and in a better position to handle family.
Barbara
Dream Master
www.dreamweaverstudio.com

"We've got two lives, one we're given,
the other one we make."
Mary Chapin Carpenter

I don't the difference in welfare checks between one child and several is
enough incentive for even the most addlepated woman to have more children
based on that alone.

Sometimes, women have children because they 'don't think' and neglect/forget
to use birth control. And sometimes it's because they feel worthless and
it's the only thing they *can* do.

--
Tinkster
www.imeltstuff.com
NEW eBay Sto http://www.stores.ebay.com/blackswampglassworks
Join my Mailing List:


"Rachel T." wrote in message
...
*snip*
This chick is prime example of someone who shouldn't have kids. Mainly
because
she has no idea what she's doing, she'd too young (IMO) and she just
doesn't
seem to care. Personally, I think it's more for the welfare checks she
gets.

I was totally, totally shocked to find out that my brother is the result of my
mother not using birth control just "because". What the---??? !!!! Jeez. Not
using birth control makes my mind reel.

Sometimes, women have children because they 'don't think' and neglect/forget
to use birth control.


~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

I guess I'm just a product of my times.

My mother was/is Catholic and wanted a large family, and used "rhythm"
successful (yup, they wanted lots). My father was almost 20 years older
than she and the son of immigrants, so he was old fashioned, and older, and
he wanted a large family.

I grew up Catholic, conservative, before birth control was as common or
effective as it is now,..... and very naive. "Surprise" pregnancies were as
common as not (if not more), and the pill did not like me. None of my
pregnancies were planned.

I often think of Kathy as being my age, because she has the wisdom of
Grandmother. But Kathy, my son, at 36 is just little older than you are. A
whole different generation in birth control.

I am glad having a child is so much more of a choice now. But you know
what? The women likely to have unexpected pregnancies are still the most
innocent of them. The sweet ones who are too inexperienced to anticipate
sex and its consequences.

Tina




"Jalynne" wrote in message
hlink.net...
then there's me, who is the result of the pill taken properly. I guess i
was
supposed to be here.

--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at

http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/s...cat=500&thumb=
1


"Dr. Sooz" wrote in message
...
I was totally, totally shocked to find out that my brother is the result
of my
mother not using birth control just "because". What the---??? !!!!
Jeez. Not
using birth control makes my mind reel.

Sometimes, women have children because they 'don't think' and
neglect/forget
to use birth control.


~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

In article ,
"Karlee in Kansas" wrote:


Do you guys think that I should please the planet by letting people see me in
all my glory whilst I feel terribly
uncomfortable? Do you guys think that I should let the outside world turn my
hospital room into a major hub of
activity? Do you think that at 27, after major complications during
pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and two kids, that
I should reconsider my choice to be sterilized?

Honey, I am 100% behind you on this one! For all three of my labors I
allowed ONLY my husband (and doula, with the last one) to be with me
while I was in labor. Your comfort level has a significant impact on how
your labor progresses and what the experience is like for you; you
absolutely should do what you feel most comfortable with. Labor is not a
show for anyone's entertainment, and they can go stuff themselves if
they think it is. Tell your mom that the only visitors you want while
you're in labor were those present at the conception!

If she won't back down, smile sweetly and say "I understand", then don't
call her hen you go into labor. I wish I hadn't called anyone because
then they kept calling and leaving put-upon messages about how I needed
to call them back and let them know how things were going. After 26
hours of labor, I didn't need to come home to 37 irritating messages
demanding to know why I hadn't been calling to update everyone. I also
didn't need people tracking me down and calling my hospital room while I
was trying to relax through contractions.

You can just call afterwards... if they complain, you can just look at
them like they're crazy and say "I was IN LABOR. I was a LITTLE
distracted."

And for that matter, you don't have to let ANYONE see or hold the baby
until you're darn good and ready. Bottom line, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THEM.
It's not about your mother or anyone else besides you, your husband,
your son, and your new baby. Feel free to use my line... look 'em
straight in the eye and say "Yes, but this isn't about you". People
often can't come up with much to say when confronted point blank with
the condensed version of their own selfishness.

As far as being sterilized, yes, sure there is a chance you might regret
it. But you are an adult, and you have the facilities necessary to make
a decision about your own reproduction! I will say that you might
reconsider having both of you done, and just have him done; it's a lot
safer, and I WOULD NOT want the extra recuperation time alongside
recovering from labor and the rigors of trying to care for a newborn and
an older child. I researched this myself, and was going to do it, until
Moxley and I decided to marry. Now he has chosen to have a vasectomy,
and I am not having my tubes tied, because his vasectomy *should* do the
trick! (knocking on wood).

My best advice for dealing with your mom; don't tell her anything
important, ever. It sounds like she just uses the information to make
you miserable.

Good luck,

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, born 5/31/03
Wife of the incomparable Moxley of www.spaceplex.com
See us at www.strattonhome.org

In article ,
"Karlee in Kansas" wrote:


| 3. Think long and hard about the sterilization. What if, god forbid, you
| were in an accident and you lost your children.

IMO, my kids could not be replaced. By the time I recovered from the grief
as much as one can after loosing a child, of
loosing them, I would most likely be too old to give birth again. I feel
that my kids are a gift to me from a Higher
Power, and if the Higher Power thinks that their "number is up" then I will
mourn them, remember them, and celebrate the
short time that I had them. Knowing how I deal with grief, I probably would
never want to try to have more.


I feel this way too. Fear of losing children is not a good reason to
remain fertile! They cannot be replaced.

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, born 5/31/03
Wife of the incomparable Moxley of www.spaceplex.com
See us at www.strattonhome.org

In article ,
uppies (Dr. Sooz) wrote:

Okay.....Why is it that people need to create genetic children in order to be
fulfilled as parents? There are over 6 billion people on this Earth. There
were less than 3 billion when I was born! Is no one paying attention to this?
~~
Sooz

Dor some of us, it is a physical and psychological need, like sex and
love and companionship.

For others, it is not. In the best world, only people who really truly
on a profound gut level *want* children would have them, and no one
would be pressured, by society, by family, or by anyone else, into
having them.

I just had my THIRD, and you would be amazed by how many people have
told me that I "have to" have a fourth to "balance things out".

?????!

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, born 5/31/03
Wife of the incomparable Moxley of www.spaceplex.com
See us at www.strattonhome.org

In article ,
Deirdre S. wrote:

My favorite idea would be to see us evolve ways for *many* adults to
be involved in the life and maturation process of the children who
already exist, so it wasn't necessary for everyone to have children
biologically in order to feel invested in the next generation.

It would require a lot of good communication among the co-parents
about what values they felt needed to be used in jointly raising such
a child. Only people with compatible values would make good co-parents
... without that, there would simply be a damaging tug of war over the
children.

But it could potentially end child-neglect, where only one, or in some
cases, no adults at all were available to stay tuned in and connected
to each child now alive on the planet, and could satisfy one big
reason why people want children: in order to involve themselves in our
shared future in a way that is deeply personal.

And I think irresponsible child-bearing would go way down if people in
their twenties had gotten what was necessary in their own childhoods
to feel really loved and secure. So the process of loving today's
children would mean less likelihood of tomorrow's unwanted and
neglected children. The process would feed itself, once begun.

Lots of people end up with a child because they were desperately
lonely, and just wanted to be held. And sex seemed like the only way
to get that wish fulfilled.

Deirdre

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:06:14 -0400, "laura"
wrote:

It's easier to pretend the problem
doesn't exist on a society wide basis than it would be to find a way to get
society to agree on how to solve the problem.


This is such a good post, Dierdre.

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, born 5/31/03
Wife of the incomparable Moxley of www.spaceplex.com
See us at www.strattonhome.org