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A pugged clay problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 20th 06, 01:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

Hi all,
Yesterday I machine pugged some re-claimed clay (as usual), but noticed that
the clay's properties werent smooth. The clay could be 'torn' and was
ragged when done so.

When I pug my clay - I put it through the machine several times to make sure
its the same consistency throughout.

Although I wedged it really well afterwards I just couldnt get it to feel
right - almost as if it had lost its plasticity.

The throwing wasnt good either - the clay sounded as if it were a fizzy soft
drink, and when inspected, appeared to have very minute bubble holes in the
surface; almost like it had fermented.

I threw a bowl (almost to completion) and then the side actually tore apart
when extending the diameter of the rim.

I'm really careful over re-claiming clay and as far as I know - I've been
really careful not to contaminate the re-claimed clay in my slop bucket.

Anyone actually know whats going on here? I'm wondering if its going to be
safe to fire otherwise I risk losing my other ware!!

JM
(sporting yet another cold - sniff - where's those tissues)


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  #2  
Old March 20th 06, 03:58 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

Is the pugmill a de-airing type? Could the vacum source be plugged?

--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/

  #3  
Old March 20th 06, 06:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

No - its not a de-airing pugmill. On the whole, I've never had problems
before, with air trapping in the clay, with it.


  #4  
Old March 20th 06, 10:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

Lee In Mashiko, Japan wrote:
Is the pugmill a de-airing type? Could the vacum source be plugged?

--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/

could be the clay is "tired", needs a rest for a couple of months,
possibly some (small amount)live yogurt added will help, needs to get
some algal growth inbetween the clay platelets so's they is slipperyer,
other possibility is that the clay was a bit wet when it went thru the
pug, you'll know if this is the case 'cos it'll look "dog-eared" as it
comes out of the machine....
Hugs
Eddie
  #5  
Old March 21st 06, 12:29 AM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

other possibility is that the clay was a bit wet when it went thru the
pug, you'll know if this is the case 'cos it'll look "dog-eared" as it
comes out of the machine....
Hugs
Eddie


Hi Eddie,
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there... some of the clay had
gone a little too hard to work with, and so I compensated with very soft
clay - which I mixed together to get a happy medium (so for every hard bit,
a soft piece went in too). Yes, the result was a little 'dog eared', but I
did put it through several times to work it thoroughly. I have gone back to
the clay today and it has rested overnight; it's still not right, but not as
bad as yesterday. Could this have been the cause of the clay going 'bubbly'
too?
Thanks for the input (and the hug - I need it at the moment - sniff)
JM
'the learning never stops'


  #6  
Old March 21st 06, 12:32 AM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

This clay sounds monumentally tired!

Is this the same clay as you have used before or a very new batch?

If it's old stock, how many times has this particular batch been pugged?

A cheaper alternative to Yoghurt is Cider Vinegar; I buy a gallon of
VERY cheap Cider and leave the lid off for a week, by which time it's
turned to vinegar. One gallon lasts me a year. I add a cup-full of this
to all my clay, both the re-claim and the new stuff; it does what Eddie
says, makes it slipperyererer, 'cos it grows moulds in the clay.
Incidentally the Cider Vinegar smells much nicer after a few weeks than
the Yoghurt!

In times past Potters used make up stocks of clay for the future and
keep it under wet sacking in a dark corner of the workshop to allow it
to *sour* or mature. They also used to pee on the clay to help the
process. Nowadays the clay you get from the supplier is rarely more than
a month old at the most, so a properly soured clay is almost un-heard
of.
A really matured clay is amazing to use; it feels quite different and
you can almost throw it round corners!

Steve
Bath
UK


In article , JM
writes
No - its not a de-airing pugmill. On the whole, I've never had problems
before, with air trapping in the clay, with it.



--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
  #7  
Old March 21st 06, 08:28 AM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

Wow, this is both enlightnening and encouraging. I have some real old
clay sitting wrapped up and aging in storage and I was hesitant to even
try using it. My shop is not heated and its real brutal to try to work
clay in the cold, so I've got some 500 pounds just waiting for warmer
days. Right now Spring is breaking here in Tennessee and although I was
planning on buying fresh clay, I don't have pug mill money, I'm going
give this old stuff a try. Everytime I visit here I learn something
new, lol, about the second oldest profession.

  #8  
Old March 21st 06, 12:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

Stephen Mills wrote:
This clay sounds monumentally tired!

Is this the same clay as you have used before or a very new batch?

If it's old stock, how many times has this particular batch been pugged?

A cheaper alternative to Yoghurt is Cider Vinegar; I buy a gallon of
VERY cheap Cider and leave the lid off for a week, by which time it's
turned to vinegar. One gallon lasts me a year. I add a cup-full of this
to all my clay, both the re-claim and the new stuff; it does what Eddie
says, makes it slipperyererer, 'cos it grows moulds in the clay.
Incidentally the Cider Vinegar smells much nicer after a few weeks than
the Yoghurt!

In times past Potters used make up stocks of clay for the future and
keep it under wet sacking in a dark corner of the workshop to allow it
to *sour* or mature. They also used to pee on the clay to help the
process. Nowadays the clay you get from the supplier is rarely more than
a month old at the most, so a properly soured clay is almost un-heard
of.
A really matured clay is amazing to use; it feels quite different and
you can almost throw it round corners!

Steve
Bath
UK


In article , JM
writes
No - its not a de-airing pugmill. On the whole, I've never had problems
before, with air trapping in the clay, with it.



now, of course, if you lived in Somerset Uncle Steve, you'd use a good
scrumpy (cider for the international folks)cos it's likely cheaper than
the stuff that folks buy if they don't (live in Zummerzet, that is...)
Hugs
Eddie
  #9  
Old March 21st 06, 01:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Default A pugged clay problem

Just come in from a glazing session....its gonna be hot tonight...

In answer to some of the comments re the age of the clay....

Some of the clay is old - I bought it off my ex pottery tutor who used to
run his own pottery.. This clay is still in its original bags, but has been
standing for years; half of the bags are just too hard to work with, and the
other half are too soft - so I've been pugging both together. However, this
time I added some of my slagged clay which I had part dryed on plaster bats.

Pugmills are a worthy buy and save plenty of time, mine has been worth its
weight in gold (and my are they heavy). I bought mine second hand from Ebay
(a lot of pottery equipment comes up) - it's always worth looking at
second-hand buys. I'll be getting another one soon - for my grogged clay.
It's amazing how much my pugmill has cut down my clay orders, I don't seem
to be ordering half as much as I used to!

Somerset cider, well I'd rather drink it, but its worth a try...I don't
think I'll try the pee though. Perhaps I'll stop off on the way to Cornwall
(which is where my pottery is moving to - hopefully v soon).

Take care
JM
sniff - and I still have the cold =(

ps By the way - anyone know how to stop a puppy from eating clay??
Unfortunately my little one has developed a taste for it and is eating all
my profits away!!


  #10  
Old March 21st 06, 02:26 PM posted to rec.crafts.pottery
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Posts: n/a
Default A pugged clay problem

J M wrote:
Just come in from a glazing session....its gonna be hot tonight...

In answer to some of the comments re the age of the clay....

Some of the clay is old - I bought it off my ex pottery tutor who used to
run his own pottery.. This clay is still in its original bags, but has been
standing for years; half of the bags are just too hard to work with, and the
other half are too soft - so I've been pugging both together. However, this
time I added some of my slagged clay which I had part dryed on plaster bats.

Pugmills are a worthy buy and save plenty of time, mine has been worth its
weight in gold (and my are they heavy). I bought mine second hand from Ebay
(a lot of pottery equipment comes up) - it's always worth looking at
second-hand buys. I'll be getting another one soon - for my grogged clay.
It's amazing how much my pugmill has cut down my clay orders, I don't seem
to be ordering half as much as I used to!

Somerset cider, well I'd rather drink it, but its worth a try...I don't
think I'll try the pee though. Perhaps I'll stop off on the way to Cornwall
(which is where my pottery is moving to - hopefully v soon).

Take care
JM
sniff - and I still have the cold =(

ps By the way - anyone know how to stop a puppy from eating clay??
Unfortunately my little one has developed a taste for it and is eating all
my profits away!!


the only way i stopped mine from eating clay (German shepard) was
waiting till he grew up... Stopped all on his own by the time he was a
year old...
Hugs
Eddie
 




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