Dear Red States

Dawne Peterson wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote .
The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry? What is this crap about
semantics, civil unions, marriage, legal contract, whatever anyone
wants to call it. Do they love one another any less than any other
couple?

The state has an interest in who can marry, partly one of protection (you
can't marry below a certain age) and partly its interest in property. The
semantics are necessary because while some marriages are purely civil
arrangements, others are marked by religious ceremonies. No religious
institution can be compelled to provide a religious rite for those people
who in the view of their faith are not able to receive it. Here in Canada,
a gay couple of legal age can have a civil marriage ceremony. Whether or
not they can have a religious ceremony depends on the faith group; one
mainstream Protestant church marries gay couples, other faith groups are
debating it, and some won't.

It would be a much more sensible solution to move
toward separating civil and religious marriage. Goodness
knows a number of other countries have managed to make it
work. There are US politicians who have proposed this as a
solution, but they typically get shot down under the theory
that the state is somehow undermining marriage if there's
a clear demarcation between civil and religious marriage.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article , Karen C in California
wrote:

flitterbit wrote:
I really don't understand why some people feel so threatened by gay
people; the only difference between gays and heterosexuals is to whom
they're sexually attracted.


[snip]
Personally, I've been propositioned by a couple of lesbians who think
that because I'm divorced I should hate men. Did I cry on S's shoulder
when my relationship broke up? Yeah. Did I find her sexually
attractive while I was doing it? No. She just happened to be the
nearest person when I got the news. I am 150% hetero; when I got
married, it was Hallelujah, I never have to live with women again.

"150% Hetero?" Is that really possible???

You know, as a criminalist, I hold a degree in psychology. I would aver
that most of my most esteemed colleagues (as well as myself), that a
quote from MacBeth applies he "The lady doth protest too much,
methinks"

(Hyperbolic statements in "stressful" or controversial/confrontational
situations often indicates "guilt" or fear.)

Either that or you might be one of the only homophobic Dems in
captivity.
*throws peanuts*

--
dark.angel

"Ericka" wrote in message
...
Dawne Peterson wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote .
The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry? What is this crap about
semantics, civil unions, marriage, legal contract, whatever anyone
wants to call it. Do they love one another any less than any other
couple?

The state has an interest in who can marry, partly one of protection (you
can't marry below a certain age) and partly its interest in property.
The semantics are necessary because while some marriages are purely civil
arrangements, others are marked by religious ceremonies. No religious
institution can be compelled to provide a religious rite for those people
who in the view of their faith are not able to receive it. Here in
Canada, a gay couple of legal age can have a civil marriage ceremony.
Whether or not they can have a religious ceremony depends on the faith
group; one mainstream Protestant church marries gay couples, other faith
groups are debating it, and some won't.

It would be a much more sensible solution to move
toward separating civil and religious marriage. Goodness
knows a number of other countries have managed to make it
work. There are US politicians who have proposed this as a
solution, but they typically get shot down under the theory
that the state is somehow undermining marriage if there's
a clear demarcation between civil and religious marriage.

Best wishes,
Ericka


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How is a civil ceremony by a
judge or a Justice of the Peace not separate from a religious one????

Lucille

On Nov 8, 9:33 am, Jangchub wrote:
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:27:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Nov 7, 2:47 pm, Karen C in California wrote:
dark.angel wrote:
It's people like YOU that make other
people too afraid to pray in front of me once they find out I'm a Dem.

Not me. I manage to be both a Dem and a Christian.

However, I can't begin to count how many Reps have made statements in my
presence to the effect of "all Jews/Buddhists/Muslims are going straight
to hell because they're not Christians". Dems are more tolerant of
other religions.

Bull****.

Pure unadulterated bull****, Karen.

Elizabeth

Elizabeth is on a "bull****" roll! LOL

I don't recall you saying it so often; did I create a monster.

Nah, I'm a potty-mouth from way back, I just try to keep it under
control in polite company. But I've been feeling sorely provoked by
Karen's typically sweeping generalizations and completely false
"universal truths."

Elizabeth

On Nov 8, 9:41 am, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote:
"Ericka" wrote in message

...



Dawne Peterson wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote .
The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry? What is this crap about
semantics, civil unions, marriage, legal contract, whatever anyone
wants to call it. Do they love one another any less than any other
couple?

The state has an interest in who can marry, partly one of protection (you
can't marry below a certain age) and partly its interest in property.
The semantics are necessary because while some marriages are purely civil
arrangements, others are marked by religious ceremonies. No religious
institution can be compelled to provide a religious rite for those people
who in the view of their faith are not able to receive it. Here in
Canada, a gay couple of legal age can have a civil marriage ceremony.
Whether or not they can have a religious ceremony depends on the faith
group; one mainstream Protestant church marries gay couples, other faith
groups are debating it, and some won't.

It would be a much more sensible solution to move
toward separating civil and religious marriage. Goodness
knows a number of other countries have managed to make it
work. There are US politicians who have proposed this as a
solution, but they typically get shot down under the theory
that the state is somehow undermining marriage if there's
a clear demarcation between civil and religious marriage.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How is a civil ceremony by a
judge or a Justice of the Peace not separate from a religious one????

Other way around. DH and I were married by a Catholic priest whose
religious authority also gave him the authority to marry us in the
eyes of the state. In European countries if you want a religious
ceremony that's fine, buy you still have to have a civil one.

Elizabeth

wrote in message
...
On Nov 8, 9:41 am, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote:
"Ericka" wrote in message

...



Dawne Peterson wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote .
The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry? What is this crap about
semantics, civil unions, marriage, legal contract, whatever anyone
wants to call it. Do they love one another any less than any other
couple?

The state has an interest in who can marry, partly one of protection
(you
can't marry below a certain age) and partly its interest in property.
The semantics are necessary because while some marriages are purely
civil
arrangements, others are marked by religious ceremonies. No religious
institution can be compelled to provide a religious rite for those
people
who in the view of their faith are not able to receive it. Here in
Canada, a gay couple of legal age can have a civil marriage ceremony.
Whether or not they can have a religious ceremony depends on the faith
group; one mainstream Protestant church marries gay couples, other
faith
groups are debating it, and some won't.

It would be a much more sensible solution to move
toward separating civil and religious marriage. Goodness
knows a number of other countries have managed to make it
work. There are US politicians who have proposed this as a
solution, but they typically get shot down under the theory
that the state is somehow undermining marriage if there's
a clear demarcation between civil and religious marriage.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How is a civil ceremony
by a
judge or a Justice of the Peace not separate from a religious one????

Other way around. DH and I were married by a Catholic priest whose
religious authority also gave him the authority to marry us in the
eyes of the state. In European countries if you want a religious
ceremony that's fine, buy you still have to have a civil one.

Elizabeth


Same here, but it was a Rabbi.

What I was trying to say is you can get married in a civil ceremony and you
don't need to have a religious ceremony. I have friends who simply went to
the court house and got married before a judge.

You can even get married in Nevada without any kind of waiting period, no
blood tests, etc..

L

wrote:
Other way around. DH and I were married by a Catholic priest whose
religious authority also gave him the authority to marry us in the
eyes of the state. In European countries if you want a religious
ceremony that's fine, buy you still have to have a civil one.

Elizabeth

Oh dear, that means I've not been "officially" married to Maureen for
the last 33 years as we were married in a Methodist church by a
Methodist minister and didn't have a civil ceremony. And will I have to
pay back the income tax that I didn't pay because I was married?
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney UK

Lucille wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Nov 8, 9:41 am, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote:
"Ericka" wrote in message

...



Dawne Peterson wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote .
The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry? What is this crap about
semantics, civil unions, marriage, legal contract, whatever anyone
wants to call it. Do they love one another any less than any other
couple?
The state has an interest in who can marry, partly one of protection
(you
can't marry below a certain age) and partly its interest in property.
The semantics are necessary because while some marriages are purely
civil
arrangements, others are marked by religious ceremonies. No religious
institution can be compelled to provide a religious rite for those
people
who in the view of their faith are not able to receive it. Here in
Canada, a gay couple of legal age can have a civil marriage ceremony.
Whether or not they can have a religious ceremony depends on the faith
group; one mainstream Protestant church marries gay couples, other
faith
groups are debating it, and some won't.
It would be a much more sensible solution to move
toward separating civil and religious marriage. Goodness
knows a number of other countries have managed to make it
work. There are US politicians who have proposed this as a
solution, but they typically get shot down under the theory
that the state is somehow undermining marriage if there's
a clear demarcation between civil and religious marriage.
Best wishes,
Ericka
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How is a civil ceremony
by a
judge or a Justice of the Peace not separate from a religious one????
Other way around. DH and I were married by a Catholic priest whose
religious authority also gave him the authority to marry us in the
eyes of the state. In European countries if you want a religious
ceremony that's fine, buy you still have to have a civil one.

Elizabeth


Same here, but it was a Rabbi.

What I was trying to say is you can get married in a civil ceremony and you
don't need to have a religious ceremony. I have friends who simply went to
the court house and got married before a judge.

You can even get married in Nevada without any kind of waiting period, no
blood tests, etc..

L


Jim and I were married in the Courthouse down here in Florida. No blood
tests either..we went in on a Friday and filled out the paperwork, and
returned on Tuesday, with four of our closest friends, and did the dirty
deed! "Marrying Mary" ( the Clerk who does marriages) had a little room
all decorated, and it was fun. She included an American Indian poem, and
one of the couples with us is jewish, so he brought along the glass in a
napkin for Jim to stomp on. Then we all went out for lunch.

Wow, over 13 years ago that was!.

G

Jangchub wrote:

The part I don't understand is, what the hell is it anyone's business
if gay men and women want to marry?


Exactly. How exactly does it threaten YOUR marriage that Larry and Moe
have married each other? Do these people think that they'll be forced
to divorce each other and marry gay people?

Live and let live.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/

wrote:

On Nov 7, 2:43 pm, Karen C in California wrote:

I am 150% hetero; when I got
married, it was Hallelujah, I never have to live with women again.


That explains a lot about you, actually.

I treasure the women in my life.

Elizabeth


I like women in small doses. But, just like my male buddies, I'm driven
around the bend by living with the mood swings, the blathering about
fashion/makeup, the emotional meltdowns when the man of the hour doesn't
call precisely when he says he will....

There are a few women out there who are intelligent, rational, secure in
themselves, but most of the ones I lived with were not.

And I just plain got tired of walking on eggshells one week a month.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/