oxy-acetylene torch

Depending on where you are, if you ever answered that, there is no
particular reason you can't do it in your apartment or on the street. House
natural gas in the US is normally delivered at 7 inches of water pressure
which is 1/4 psi which is probably too low for a lot of torches. Working
glass indoors requires reasonable ventilation, a fire proof surface for the
top of the bench and a fire resistant panel for the wall (like a metal panel
used behind a cook or wood stove) because the hot trail off the torch is
typically aimed away from the worker and toward a wall. If you use a large
20# propane tank, don't keep it indoors when not in use, which may be a
problem in an apartment unless you have a balcony since the tank is the same
as a BBQ grill uses.
MAPP gas alone, without oxygen, with a proper torch, more likely called a
braising torch, will just barely make boro soften, but not really make it
workable.
Stop reading books from the 1950's and get something up to date like
Contemporary Lampworking. So much has changed in torch work since then that
books from back then (and I have a couple) are pathetically out of date. As
one example, even 15 years ago, to have color with boro, you had to mix your
own chemicals into the glass. Now there are several suppliers of colored
boro. 20 years ago, there were perhaps 2 suppliers of scientific
glassblowing equipment to the public - Wale Apparatus and ?. Now there are
half a dozen or more makers of torches and a dozen or more major
distributors and many many retail outlets. As a starting point, go to Arrow
Springs http://www.arrowsprings.com/ if you haven't already.

--
Mike Firth
Furnace Glassblowing Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/
"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...
"Randy H." writes:

All the safety rules are the same, but you wouldn't want to use
acetylene.
It is to hot and to dirty. Most people use propane/mapp because it is
easier. Or you can use natural gas. Problem with natural is that your
standard house pressure is lacking to operate a bench burner correctly.

I just found an article by C.L.Stong in the Amateur Scientist column of
Scientific American from the 1950's in which he explains how to do
glass blowing. He shows a setup using a propane tank. I'm under the
impression that this would only be good for soda glass, not for pyrex.
I haven't used mapp gas but I'm under the impression that it is used
exactly the same way as propane but burns hotter and can be used with
pyrex. Are these impressions correct?

Unfortunately, I don't have any place I can actually do any of this.
Stong doesn't talk about safety except for advocating the use of
asbestos! My apartment is definitely out of the question and it
is probably illegal to do it on the streets without some kind of
permit.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions
and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near
Boston.

"Mike Firth" writes:

there is no particular reason you can't do it in your apartment or on the
street. [...]

Thanks for all the very helpful advice. I'll see if I can get access to
a copy of Contemporary Lampworking. The list price is a bit steep for me.
One reason I get old books is that often they are a lot cheaper used.
Lindsay Publications is constantly reprinting old books because they
feel the old books have a lot of good information in them. But I'm not
slighting the more modern developments you pointed out, since that is
also good information to have.

20# propane tank, don't keep it indoors when not in use, which may be a
problem in an apartment unless you have a balcony since the tank is the same
as a BBQ grill uses.

No balcony or fire escape. Also, I can't modify my apartment since I don't
own it. That being the case, the main access I might have to a workspace
for glass would be at a school while taking a course on it, and that would
be one of the main reasons for taking the course, apart from the valuable
information and supervision I would get from the course. It's too bad
there isn't a middle ground, such as a glass cooperative that would let the
likes of me use some work space.

Anyway, if there is no particular reason why it can't be done on the street,
I'll go talk to the local fire department and ask them how they view the
matter. Maybe they'll let me do lampworking at the fire station, where
they can put out the fire the instant it happens or administer first aid
as needed.

I'm not sure I remember right, or if I'm confusing you with someone else,
but I think you posted a link to your own website. I saw one of the pictures
of chicken wire briefly and it looked like it was being held in place with
cement! I didn't have time to read it carefully but I'll go back to it as
soon as I have access to a better computer again.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.

"Mo***r***ker" writes:
Most mental institutions DO tend to limit the inmate's access to hot/sharp
things.

Well, since you raise safety issues, I was wondering about one thing that
Mike Firth mentioned, namely the recent availability of colored borosilicate
glass. I'm under the impression that pigments are often very toxic and one
has to take extraordinary precautions in working with them. So, apart from
convenience it is natural to wonder: are the colored borosilicate
glass is entirely free of such risks when one does lampworking with them?
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.

"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...
"Mo***r***ker" writes:
Most mental institutions DO tend to limit the inmate's access to
hot/sharp
things.

Well, since you raise safety issues, I was wondering about one thing that
Mike Firth mentioned, namely the recent availability of colored
borosilicate
glass. I'm under the impression that pigments are often very toxic and one
has to take extraordinary precautions in working with them. So, apart from
convenience it is natural to wonder: are the colored borosilicate
glass is entirely free of such risks when one does lampworking with them?
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler

No, Dweezil, it wasn't "safety issues" that were raised. Your OCD
"issues" are the ones that are running amuck. Do the folks in the white
coats know you are playing on the computer, again?

First, you don't have a "place" to lampwork.
You don't have the equipment.
If you were to have the place and the equipment, you don't know "how".
By your own admission, you can't afford books or lessons.

So, worrying about the "risks" of colored boro is not unlike obsessing about
what brand of stitches the doctor might use when he performs your
much-needed lobotomy.

Go take your meds and try to find something else to obsess about that is
within your means.

"Moonraker" writes:

"Allan Adler" wrote in message
Well, since you raise safety issues, I was wondering about one thing that
Mike Firth mentioned, namely the recent availability of colored borosilicate
glass. I'm under the impression that pigments are often very toxic and one
has to take extraordinary precautions in working with them. So, apart from
convenience it is natural to wonder: are the colored borosilicate
glass is entirely free of such risks when one does lampworking with them?

He rightly points out (although I do know a little about "how" and have done
some acceptable lampworking in the past):

First, you don't have a "place" to lampwork. You don't have the equipment.
If you were to have the place and the equipment, you don't know "how".
By your own admission, you can't afford books or lessons.

However, that is irrelevant. First of all, it is perfectly legitimate to ask
about safety issues in crafts, and safety issues don't only pertain to the
individuals who ask about them. If Moonraker doesn't know the answer to these
questions, I'm sure someone else does. Secondly, I'm sure there are a lot of
people who are interested in figuring out ways around obstacles to their
being able to practice some craft. If such an individual has fewer material
resources to devote to a solution, it doesn't mean that the individual then
has less right to try to find one and to ask about it.

That aside, I'll be interested in competent comments on the safety issues
I asked about.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.

One of the methods of protecting the environment from dangerous chemicals
is to encase them in glass.
It is generally felt that the chemicals that are poisonous when standing
alone or used in pigments are relatively harmless when involved in the
glass. Part of the reason for this is the changes that occur when the
chemicals are incorporated - for example the carbonate or chloride changing
to the oxide. I suppose it is possible to get the glass boiling/bubbling
hot and out gas or burn off chemicals, but you would need a powerful torch
and be bent on ruining the glass.
As one extreme example, not used with boro as far as I know, lead crystal
soft glass can be up to 35% lead oxide (vs 1-2% for colors). When they ran
tests on finished glassware with acidic wine, they had to let it sit covered
for nearly a month to get a measurable reading. The recomendation was that
wine not be stored in lead crystal decanters which is on the duh level since
it doesn't do the decanter much good.

--
Mike Firth
Furnace Glassblowing Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/
"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...


Well, since you raise safety issues, I was wondering about one thing that
Mike Firth mentioned, namely the recent availability of colored
borosilicate
glass. I'm under the impression that pigments are often very toxic and one
has to take extraordinary precautions in working with them. So, apart from
convenience it is natural to wonder: are the colored borosilicate
glass is entirely free of such risks when one does lampworking with them?
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions
and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near
Boston.

As one extreme example, not used with boro as far as I know, lead
crystal
soft glass can be up to 35% lead oxide (vs 1-2% for colors). When they
ran
tests on finished glassware with acidic wine, they had to let it sit
covered
for nearly a month to get a measurable reading. The recomendation was
that
wine not be stored in lead crystal decanters which is on the duh level
since
it doesn't do the decanter much good.

If it's good wine, you drink it, if its not you pour it down the drain, why
the hell would wine storage in a crystal decanter ever occur anyway.

Because people think an upright container with a stopper is a bottle and
don't think of a decanter as something into which one decants wine from an
aging bottle or barrel to leave the dregs behind. Heck, these people
probably shake the bottle before pouring.

--
Mike Firth
Furnace Glassblowing Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/
"Javahut" wrote in message
...

As one extreme example, not used with boro as far as I know, lead
crystal
soft glass can be up to 35% lead oxide (vs 1-2% for colors). When they
ran
tests on finished glassware with acidic wine, they had to let it sit
covered
for nearly a month to get a measurable reading. The recomendation was
that
wine not be stored in lead crystal decanters which is on the duh level
since
it doesn't do the decanter much good.

If it's good wine, you drink it, if its not you pour it down the drain,
why
the hell would wine storage in a crystal decanter ever occur anyway.

Allan, while I'm a newbie to this group only because I finally kicked my son
off the computer long enough to set all my stuff back up, I'm NOT new to
lurking over Mike Firth's shoulders to bask in the glow of his knowledge.
You can't go wrong with anything he has to say about glassblowing. You have
no idea what I've learned from him through his website, and through the Wet
Canvas forum. I've learned as much lurking as I would have in any
glassblowing class. Trial and error will teach you much, as well as every
little burn and blister. Good luck!

"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...
"Edward Hennessey" writes:

Allan Adler wrote in message
...
activity. There are no glassblowing courses I can take but
there is an art course on welding that, among other things,
would teach me how to use oxy-acetylene torches safely.

A.A.: Approximately where are you located?
Regards, Edward Hennessey

I assume you're asking because of one of the following two reasons:
(1) You are considering offering to teach me glassblowing, in case that
would be geographically convenient.
(2) You think you can locate glassblowing classes I could take if you
know where I am located.

As regards (2), I was incorrect my original statement: I just did a google
search and found, contrary to what I had thought, that there are a few
places near me where I can, in principle, take a glassblowing course.
From the prices I've seen, the courses are pretty expensive, definitely
beyond my discretionary capital at the moment, but there are indeed
courses.

As regards (1), approximately where are you located?
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions
and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near
Boston.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:16:59 -0400, "Javahut"
wrote:

If it's good wine, you drink it, if its not you pour it down the drain, why
the hell would wine storage in a crystal decanter ever occur anyway.

The problem is that people use lead crystal decanters to store whisky,
brandy, port and sherry for extended periods. They should only be used
for immediate consumption. Pour it back into the original bottle if
you wish to keep it long-term.

Nothing wrong with passing the port decanter clockwise round the
dining table. Just make sure that it is emptied by the end of the
meal.
--
Terry Harper
URL: http://www.btinternet.com/~terry.harper/