recommendations?

"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
...
In , on Tue, 13 Jun 2006
09:46:02 -0400, Moonraker wrote:

You may see appliances/tools with ratings that say 215/220/230/240volts.

I might see them rated at 208v as well... but that's
a whole different can of worms. ;-)

Or, you might see flourescent fixtures rated for 277v. And you might see 3
phase, or 2 wire 220, or 3 wire 220. And you might even see 440v motors.


(Or in the US/Can. they may be marked 110/115/120.) A soldering iron
that
is designed to operate on 230 volts (nominal) will work just as well on
215
volts or 240 volts. Basically all the voltage labeling is telling you
is
that the device is designed for and the electrical insulation will work
for
voltages up to the labeling. For all practical purposes, the first
digit
in the voltage label is the only one that is important to you. ( a "2"
or
a "1")

So, if I have 199 volts at the socket, I can run stuff
designed for 115? ;-)

If you have 199v at the socket, you have bigger problems than can be
discussed on a news group. ;)



The 50 cy/60 cy difference is generally only important in some
electronic
circuitry and in motor revolution speeds. A motor designed for 60 cy
will
spin slower if powered with a 50cy current.

It will also generally run hotter, so is often
discouraged.

A soldering iron is heated by electrical resistance. The flow of
electricity is impeded by the heater (a coil of wire or a ceramic
device)
and heat is generated. That electrical energy has to go "somewhere",
so it
is converted into heat. The cycle (50 vs 60) is unimportant in a
heating
element. The amount of resistance is measured in "Ohms". But most
mfgs.
rate their devices in either "Watts" or "Amps" or, even "Horsepower".
All
of these are inter-related and if you know any two figures, the 3rd can
be
calculated.

I'd say if you know any two of amps, volts, or
ohms, the third can be calculated.
For instance, if you know only amps and ohms, you
can't figure out watts. For that, you need to know
volts.

Well, strictly speaking, yes. However, we were talking about appliances
and tools commonly used in homes and glass studios. I thought it went
without saying that one would know what the domestic line voltage was.


For your purposes, you may want to know the current pulled by an iron.
The
mfg. has rated it as a 100 watt iron, and you have 230 volts applied to
it.
You would be pulling 2.3 amps.

As was pointed out already, you were daydreaming
when you typed that. ;-)

Yeah, I got interrupted by a pesky customer on the phone.

Wattage is calculated by multiplying the
current draw (quantity of electricity) times the voltage. It's a simple
algebraic equation, where W= AxV .

Yes.

Some of the devices you will want to work with in your studio are likely
US
made, so they will be 120v,60cy. You will need to convert the voltage
(not
the cycles) from your 230v supply. You do that by using a transformer
which
steps down the voltage (basically in half). The capacity of the
transformer
to handle the devices attached to it (1000 watts, etc.) has to do with
the
size of the wire/insulation/ etc. used in it. You mentioned a 300 w
transformer. It will basically only handle one soldering iron at a
time.

It would handle 3 x 100 Watt non-temperature
controlled irons. The rating of a transformer is
given at 100% duty cycle. Almost all transformers
can be run over rated capacity for short or
intermittent periods... especially in cool ambient
temps.

Say you have 4 Weller 100's. Sitting on the bench,
they are constantly kicking in and out. Given their
intermittent nature, it would be well within the realm
of expectation to be able to have all 4 of them plugged
into a 300 Watt transformer all day long given an
aggregate duty cycle of 75% or less.

Why on earth would anyone need 4 irons going at a time, unless they were
teaching a class?


It's common practice to use variacs (variable
transformers) WAY over their rated capacity with
popcorn poppers for roasting coffee. The fact that
the heating element kicks in and out is what allows
them to get away with it... also the fact that the
whole roast from start to finish isn't any more than
about 10 minutes. (We're talking about using variacs
that originally shipped with 5 amp fuses - call it a
600 watt rating - for 1400 watt heating elements)

IOW, MOST 300 watt transformers don't really care
much if you run them at 400 watts for 10 seconds or
15 seconds, as long as there's ample time to cool off
at lower loading.

I
wouldn't run an iron and a grinder and a Dremel tool on that transformer
all
at the same time unless I wanted to smell burning insulation.

These sorts of consumer transformers all have either
a fuse or circuit breaker built in. Worst case, you
get to change a fuse.

And finding a fuse in the boonies of Turkey might be an adventure.

That
transformer only has about 2.5 amps of capacity. Not enough, IMO.

Most likely the primary and secondary windings are
of different size wire. Transformers are rated in
watts (or volt-amps) instead of amps for that very
reason. The primary side and secondary side have
different amperage ratings. Either way though,
300 watts out requires something on the order of 330
watts in. 330w/230v = 1.43 amps IN and 300w/115v =
2.6 amps OUT.

A 300W transformer really should be plenty to run
both the soldering iron and grinder at the same time.
Most grinders draw a variable amount of current
depending on whether they're at idle or at load, but
generally speaking, you're looking at the 100w to 200w
range.

So a 100W temp controlled Weller plus even a 200w
grinder still fall well below 300 watts continuous.
Yeah, adding a dremel at the same time would be
iffy... but then, just how many hands do you have? ;-)

So, you want Arlene's studio to go up in flames like Sinrod's kiln, eh?


Not knowing what else you may have in your studio that is US/Can. made
and
rated for 120 v, I was erring on the side of over-capacity in a
previous
post where I posted you a link for a 1000 watt one, and even that may
not be
big enough.

When we lived in Germany, we took a bunch of stuff
over. I don't recall how many of what rating
transformers we ended up with, (that was 28 years and
then 21 years ago) but say about 5 transformers ranging
from 150 watt for say, a 19" solid state b&w tv, to a
1500 watt transformer for electric frying pan, coffee
pot, and the like.

We had friends with a 2000 watt, but never could
figure out what we'd use so many lbs of iron and copper
for that our smaller ones couldn't handle.

Anyway, my 2¢

And you are right about the ability to totally load a transformer with
intermittent current draws. Personally, I wouldn't do that, preferring to
have enough power available to do what I want, when I want. And not worry
about overheating and the like. It doesn't cost any more to run a big
transformer than a small one.

Moonraker wrote:
"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
...

In , on Tue, 13 Jun 2006
09:46:02 -0400, Moonraker wrote:

You may see appliances/tools with ratings that say 215/220/230/240volts.

I might see them rated at 208v as well... but that's
a whole different can of worms. ;-)


Or, you might see flourescent fixtures rated for 277v. And you might see 3
phase, or 2 wire 220, or 3 wire 220. And you might even see 440v motors.


(Or in the US/Can. they may be marked 110/115/120.) A soldering iron

that

is designed to operate on 230 volts (nominal) will work just as well on

215

volts or 240 volts. Basically all the voltage labeling is telling you

is

that the device is designed for and the electrical insulation will work

for

voltages up to the labeling. For all practical purposes, the first

digit

in the voltage label is the only one that is important to you. ( a "2"

or

a "1")

So, if I have 199 volts at the socket, I can run stuff
designed for 115? ;-)


If you have 199v at the socket, you have bigger problems than can be
discussed on a news group. ;)



The 50 cy/60 cy difference is generally only important in some

electronic

circuitry and in motor revolution speeds. A motor designed for 60 cy

will

spin slower if powered with a 50cy current.

It will also generally run hotter, so is often
discouraged.


A soldering iron is heated by electrical resistance. The flow of
electricity is impeded by the heater (a coil of wire or a ceramic

device)

and heat is generated. That electrical energy has to go "somewhere",

so it

is converted into heat. The cycle (50 vs 60) is unimportant in a

heating

element. The amount of resistance is measured in "Ohms". But most

mfgs.

rate their devices in either "Watts" or "Amps" or, even "Horsepower".

All

of these are inter-related and if you know any two figures, the 3rd can

be

calculated.

I'd say if you know any two of amps, volts, or
ohms, the third can be calculated.
For instance, if you know only amps and ohms, you
can't figure out watts. For that, you need to know
volts.


Well, strictly speaking, yes. However, we were talking about appliances
and tools commonly used in homes and glass studios. I thought it went
without saying that one would know what the domestic line voltage was.


For your purposes, you may want to know the current pulled by an iron.

The

mfg. has rated it as a 100 watt iron, and you have 230 volts applied to

it.

You would be pulling 2.3 amps.

As was pointed out already, you were daydreaming
when you typed that. ;-)


Yeah, I got interrupted by a pesky customer on the phone.

Wattage is calculated by multiplying the
current draw (quantity of electricity) times the voltage. It's a simple
algebraic equation, where W= AxV .

Yes.


Some of the devices you will want to work with in your studio are likely

US

made, so they will be 120v,60cy. You will need to convert the voltage

(not

the cycles) from your 230v supply. You do that by using a transformer

which

steps down the voltage (basically in half). The capacity of the

transformer

to handle the devices attached to it (1000 watts, etc.) has to do with

the

size of the wire/insulation/ etc. used in it. You mentioned a 300 w
transformer. It will basically only handle one soldering iron at a

time.

It would handle 3 x 100 Watt non-temperature
controlled irons. The rating of a transformer is
given at 100% duty cycle. Almost all transformers
can be run over rated capacity for short or
intermittent periods... especially in cool ambient
temps.

Say you have 4 Weller 100's. Sitting on the bench,
they are constantly kicking in and out. Given their
intermittent nature, it would be well within the realm
of expectation to be able to have all 4 of them plugged
into a 300 Watt transformer all day long given an
aggregate duty cycle of 75% or less.


Why on earth would anyone need 4 irons going at a time, unless they were
teaching a class?

Obviously you haven't taken Dennis's "Two Hands, Four Irons, Speed
Soldering" course.

Jack

"nJb" wrote in message
...
Moonraker wrote:
"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
...

In , on Tue, 13 Jun 2006
09:46:02 -0400, Moonraker wrote:

You may see appliances/tools with ratings that say
215/220/230/240volts.

I might see them rated at 208v as well... but that's
a whole different can of worms. ;-)


Or, you might see flourescent fixtures rated for 277v. And you might
see 3
phase, or 2 wire 220, or 3 wire 220. And you might even see 440v
motors.


(Or in the US/Can. they may be marked 110/115/120.) A soldering iron

that

is designed to operate on 230 volts (nominal) will work just as well on

215

volts or 240 volts. Basically all the voltage labeling is telling you

is

that the device is designed for and the electrical insulation will work

for

voltages up to the labeling. For all practical purposes, the first

digit

in the voltage label is the only one that is important to you. ( a
"2"

or

a "1")

So, if I have 199 volts at the socket, I can run stuff
designed for 115? ;-)


If you have 199v at the socket, you have bigger problems than can be
discussed on a news group. ;)



The 50 cy/60 cy difference is generally only important in some

electronic

circuitry and in motor revolution speeds. A motor designed for 60 cy

will

spin slower if powered with a 50cy current.

It will also generally run hotter, so is often
discouraged.


A soldering iron is heated by electrical resistance. The flow of
electricity is impeded by the heater (a coil of wire or a ceramic

device)

and heat is generated. That electrical energy has to go "somewhere",

so it

is converted into heat. The cycle (50 vs 60) is unimportant in a

heating

element. The amount of resistance is measured in "Ohms". But most

mfgs.

rate their devices in either "Watts" or "Amps" or, even "Horsepower".

All

of these are inter-related and if you know any two figures, the 3rd can

be

calculated.

I'd say if you know any two of amps, volts, or
ohms, the third can be calculated.
For instance, if you know only amps and ohms, you
can't figure out watts. For that, you need to know
volts.


Well, strictly speaking, yes. However, we were talking about
appliances
and tools commonly used in homes and glass studios. I thought it went
without saying that one would know what the domestic line voltage was.


For your purposes, you may want to know the current pulled by an iron.

The

mfg. has rated it as a 100 watt iron, and you have 230 volts applied to

it.

You would be pulling 2.3 amps.

As was pointed out already, you were daydreaming
when you typed that. ;-)


Yeah, I got interrupted by a pesky customer on the phone.

Wattage is calculated by multiplying the
current draw (quantity of electricity) times the voltage. It's a
simple
algebraic equation, where W= AxV .

Yes.


Some of the devices you will want to work with in your studio are
likely

US

made, so they will be 120v,60cy. You will need to convert the voltage

(not

the cycles) from your 230v supply. You do that by using a transformer

which

steps down the voltage (basically in half). The capacity of the

transformer

to handle the devices attached to it (1000 watts, etc.) has to do with

the

size of the wire/insulation/ etc. used in it. You mentioned a 300 w
transformer. It will basically only handle one soldering iron at a

time.

It would handle 3 x 100 Watt non-temperature
controlled irons. The rating of a transformer is
given at 100% duty cycle. Almost all transformers
can be run over rated capacity for short or
intermittent periods... especially in cool ambient
temps.

Say you have 4 Weller 100's. Sitting on the bench,
they are constantly kicking in and out. Given their
intermittent nature, it would be well within the realm
of expectation to be able to have all 4 of them plugged
into a 300 Watt transformer all day long given an
aggregate duty cycle of 75% or less.


Why on earth would anyone need 4 irons going at a time, unless they were
teaching a class?

Obviously you haven't taken Dennis's "Two Hands, Four Irons, Speed
Soldering" course.

Jack

Hell, everytime I sign up for it, they cancel the class and won't let him in
the country!
I think their bull**** meter went off on him again and they had to do a
cavity search, and he wouldn't let them stop.

In , on Tue, 13 Jun 2006
18:58:07 -0400, Moonraker wrote:

"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
...
In , on Tue, 13 Jun 2006
09:46:02 -0400, Moonraker wrote:

The capacity of the
transformer
to handle the devices attached to it (1000 watts, etc.) has to do with
the
size of the wire/insulation/ etc. used in it. You mentioned a 300 w
transformer. It will basically only handle one soldering iron at a
time.

It would handle 3 x 100 Watt non-temperature
controlled irons. The rating of a transformer is
given at 100% duty cycle. Almost all transformers
can be run over rated capacity for short or
intermittent periods... especially in cool ambient
temps.

Say you have 4 Weller 100's. Sitting on the bench,
they are constantly kicking in and out. Given their
intermittent nature, it would be well within the realm
of expectation to be able to have all 4 of them plugged
into a 300 Watt transformer all day long given an
aggregate duty cycle of 75% or less.

Why on earth would anyone need 4 irons going at a time, unless they were
teaching a class?

I mentioned 4 as a counterpoint to your claim that
a 300 watt transformer could "basically only handle
one soldering iron at a time. "Basically," it can
handle (3) 100 watt irons, and with certain irons,
4 will be no problem.
Also, she said she does plan on teaching classes,
so if she teaches 3 students at a time, is it so
inconceivable that she'd want 3 or 4 irons?

So a 100W temp controlled Weller plus even a 200w
grinder still fall well below 300 watts continuous.
Yeah, adding a dremel at the same time would be
iffy... but then, just how many hands do you have? ;-)

So, you want Arlene's studio to go up in flames like Sinrod's kiln, eh?

Damn! Am I that transparent?

100 watts @ 75% duty cycle + grinder varying between
100 and 200 watts won't ever even warm up a 300 watt
transformer... assuming the grinder motor is rated
for 50/60 Hz rather than just 60 Hz.

And you are right about the ability to totally load a transformer with
intermittent current draws. Personally, I wouldn't do that, preferring to
have enough power available to do what I want, when I want. And not worry
about overheating and the like. It doesn't cost any more to run a big
transformer than a small one.

Big transformers cost more than little ones...
and they do cost more to run, albeit "insignificantly
more" depending on your definition of "insignificant"
in this context.

Some people buy an 8-cylinder engine when they only
need 4.
Other people prefer to buy 4 cylinder engines when
they only need 4, even if they know they may need to
upgrade to a 6 cylinder at some future date.

I'm just pointing out that the 300 watt transformer
Arlene has already bought can run up to four
temperature controlled irons for classroom situation,
or 3 non-temperature controlled irons, or an iron and
a grinder, or two grinders. Until she needs to run
more than that, her transformer should be fine.

Arlene: could you provide a link to your transformer
so we can take a closer look at the specs.
Failing that, maybe any numbers given other than
just the wattage rating?

The capacity of the
transformer
to handle the devices attached to it (1000 watts, etc.) has to do with
the
size of the wire/insulation/ etc. used in it. You mentioned a 300 w
transformer. It will basically only handle one soldering iron at a
time.

It would handle 3 x 100 Watt non-temperature
controlled irons. The rating of a transformer is
given at 100% duty cycle. Almost all transformers
can be run over rated capacity for short or
intermittent periods... especially in cool ambient
temps.

Say you have 4 Weller 100's. Sitting on the bench,
they are constantly kicking in and out. Given their
intermittent nature, it would be well within the realm
of expectation to be able to have all 4 of them plugged
into a 300 Watt transformer all day long given an
aggregate duty cycle of 75% or less.

Why on earth would anyone need 4 irons going at a time, unless they were
teaching a class?

I mentioned 4 as a counterpoint to your claim that
a 300 watt transformer could "basically only handle
one soldering iron at a time. "Basically," it can
handle (3) 100 watt irons, and with certain irons,
4 will be no problem.
Also, she said she does plan on teaching classes,
so if she teaches 3 students at a time, is it so
inconceivable that she'd want 3 or 4 irons?

So a 100W temp controlled Weller plus even a 200w
grinder still fall well below 300 watts continuous.
Yeah, adding a dremel at the same time would be
iffy... but then, just how many hands do you have? ;-)

So, you want Arlene's studio to go up in flames like Sinrod's kiln, eh?

Damn! Am I that transparent?

100 watts @ 75% duty cycle + grinder varying between
100 and 200 watts won't ever even warm up a 300 watt
transformer... assuming the grinder motor is rated
for 50/60 Hz rather than just 60 Hz.

And you are right about the ability to totally load a transformer with
intermittent current draws. Personally, I wouldn't do that, preferring
to
have enough power available to do what I want, when I want. And not
worry
about overheating and the like. It doesn't cost any more to run a big
transformer than a small one.

Big transformers cost more than little ones...
and they do cost more to run, albeit "insignificantly
more" depending on your definition of "insignificant"
in this context.

Some people buy an 8-cylinder engine when they only
need 4.
Other people prefer to buy 4 cylinder engines when
they only need 4, even if they know they may need to
upgrade to a 6 cylinder at some future date.

I'm just pointing out that the 300 watt transformer
Arlene has already bought can run up to four
temperature controlled irons for classroom situation,
or 3 non-temperature controlled irons, or an iron and
a grinder, or two grinders. Until she needs to run
more than that, her transformer should be fine.

Arlene: could you provide a link to your transformer
so we can take a closer look at the specs.
Failing that, maybe any numbers given other than
just the wattage rating?

Um......while there has been some good info, are we maybe entering into a
bit of a competitive "geek-off" here? Ya know, like my diode is bigger than
your diode? I'm willing to bet my taped glasses and pocket protector that
all the info Arlene (and any of the rest of us) needed here was in
Moonraker's first post. But, hey...continue this "current" "electrifying",
yet "grounded" conversation if you like. If the info is spewed out with
"efficiency" then we will see who has the "real power" as opposed to the
"apparent power". I'm sure it won't "phase" any of us and it may "induct"
you into the NerdsRUs Hall of Fame! LOL (hugs, really...just thought this
conversation was going on in a most funny [ha ha, not peculiar] manner. ; )

Lori

very funny...i think my fuse just short-circuited...
i'm going to unplug for the rest of this evening (it's 9pm here) and
watch
The Sopranos...we've just started getting the series..i think these are
re-runs
from year one...but they are NEW TO ME.

have an electrifying evening ya'll.

a.
ps...i think i've learned about everything i can possibly absorb about
electricity, not to mention, all i WANT to know...

and with wiseguys, whoops, i mean experts like you around, do i really
need
to keep this stuff in my head?? thank you for all your help!! you guys
are often
great...seldom boring...and sometimes funny as hell.



Um......while there has been some good info, are we maybe entering into a
bit of a competitive "geek-off" here? Ya know, like my diode is bigger than
your diode? I'm willing to bet my taped glasses and pocket protector that
all the info Arlene (and any of the rest of us) needed here was in
Moonraker's first post. But, hey...continue this "current" "electrifying",
yet "grounded" conversation if you like. If the info is spewed out with
"efficiency" then we will see who has the "real power" as opposed to the
"apparent power". I'm sure it won't "phase" any of us and it may "induct"
you into the NerdsRUs Hall of Fame! LOL (hugs, really...just thought this
conversation was going on in a most funny [ha ha, not peculiar] manner. ; )

Lori

wrote in message
ps.com...
Flames? i don't do flames...
i just made voodoo doll images and do 'gotcha' where it hurts!!!

:-)))))


and Glassman...for YOU the inland is cheap...for me, it's 7,000 miles
between
one that doesn't work and a replacement!

i want something that is servicable, meets my needs and LASTS ....
and lasts...

about the same thing i want in a man.




Just wind me up baby!


--

JK Sinrod
www.sinrodstudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com