Meet Matilda Mallstomper

Meredith the question is `Are they gettting THEIR story on paper ???
or are they only telling the details that everybody else tells ???
The form might make a big difference , between private and Uniform
mirjam
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:47:38 -0500, Meredith
wrote:

Who cares about the form? At least they're getting their story down on
paper! Really, that's what it comes down to. If the form makes the
creator happy, then wonderful!

Meredith

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Ericka I agree with you that people now realize the importance of keeping
information for further generations , in the form of photos/ documents
/letters etc.... and that Geneology is the other side of the same
urge. But that is just my problem with an `Organized To Numbers [or
Formats] ` scrapbooking , because eventually it will loose a lot of
the individulity , as well as valuable other info about the person
doing it.


Two things: 1) There's still *plenty* of room for
originality and individualism, even within various "schools"
of scrapbooking. 2) I don't believe for a minute that any
of this is stifling anyone's creativity one iota. Anyone
who wants to "break out" and try something more original
will do so. The ones who are more conservative and "scrap
by the numbers" probably wouldn't be documenting their
history *at all* without that level of support.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I think it must be very hard for some people with a high degree of skill
in any area to not understand how someone else doesn't possess those
skills.
I don`t know if my skills are higher than others` i only know i kepp
working on myown and thus they get more easy , just like everything we
train for, And i have known many a person who can`t do my crafts , but
can do other crafts, and that is Just my point , every one should
Follow their OWN need to develope , and mot made to believe by
commercial or peer pressure that He she / has to do anything because
it is Accepted or done etc.... maybe thes people could leave their
mark in another way ? or method in which they excell??? a zillion
`same` manufactured emeories ...will get lost eventually ,,, You
should watch one of those wonderful Shows on BBC , that show people
selling stuff in auctions ,,, or walk in antique and second hand shops
and markets , this will make you give a more Ballanced idea , about
Such works`s fate !!!
I respect every person for what he/she is , not for trying to be
something else ... Mrs Bucket is a wonderful example....
And she is Never happy .. though she does All The RIGHT things to
become Madam Bouquet.
and the person just won't "go there". But sometimes there are very
personal reasons for not "going there" in any moment of time.
Yes you are right , and wouldn`t it be better to try and make the best
we can with what we have and can achieve , and not be sad about that
we didn`t ???
I can`t be Rembrandt , not that i ever wanted , i adore his art !! i
can `t be Van Gogh , But i can be mirjam , and i should try and be the
Best mirjam i can be.
I watched a film documentary about Richard Rogers (Rogers & Hart and
Rogers and Hammerstein fame). At one point, a 60ish pianist played a
little ditty and I was swooned by her abilities. Now, everyone told me
I had those abilities. But I didn't want to spend 8 hours or more a day
at the piano. As Elizabeth says about me: too restless a spirit for
any number of personal reasons.
I can relate to this as a mother of a professional Barouque player.
Both kids learned music , my daughter chose for a professional
musicians`s life , my son chose to keep his musical abilities as a
hobby, to relax by at home. We supported and gave both all the tools.
and supported every choice they made. Both of them work very hard at
the chosen professions.
Now, I neither envied her ability nor reacted negatively because she had
what I don't have. I simply enjoyed and understood the process that got
her where she's at.

Nuff said.
Dianne

Mirjam,

Reading your post reminds me of why some teachers are better than
others.
To me, the best teachers are the ones who inspire their students to seek
more.......the worse teachers are the one who cannot see beyond their
own noses and insist their way is the best or only way to be.

Here's a funny anecdote from my freshman year......my very first oil
painting class.......we were given a still life to paint of peppers next
to a wooden bucket.......I had never painted like this before and this
was my first time using oils.......

So of course I was a nervous and didn't want to "mess" up.....so I
wanted to make my pepper look "perfect"!!! I was so worried about that
darn pepper.....kept painting and painting it because I wanted to the
skin to look just so and the edge of the pepper to be just so......kept
blending the colors and painting the edges......I concentrated very hard
on this..........

By the time the painting professor came by and I looked up, the
professor had a funny look on his face........I had been concentrating
so hard on this one detail that I forgot all about the overall
design.......my pepper was now as "BIG" as the wooden bucket!!!

Geeez, was I mortified! But, instead of being embarrassed by the
professor with an insulting or disparaging remark, he gave me a friendly
pat on my shoulder and told me I had a beautiful sense of color and that
my brush strokes were excellent.........he then went on to talk about an
anecdote in his life how he had done similar during his student days.

He then quietly told me to paint more in proportion next time and not to
completely focus on small details so much but to pay attention to the
overall balance of the composition......he said I had the skills but
needed to observe better........it was a wonderful lesson in more ways
than one.

A few positive remarks helps a lot more than an intimidating glare or
harsh criticism......he could have just as easily said how the hell did
i ever get into art school?!!

I only had one really autocratic professor who insisted his way or no
way at all.....he even told me to drop out of school if I thought I was
so good when I protested about something........I only had one semester
to graduation at the time so had no choice but to put up with
him......even worse, I found out later, he hated women students to
question anything he said.

Overall, I was fortunate that most of my professors insisted I never
change my painting style as I was one of the "lucky" ones who had
already developed a distinctive style.

My college mentor was a well known artist and watercolorist, who
insisted I follow my own muse no matter what any future teacher would
say.....she insisted that I had a unique style and gave me the
confidence to think for myself and to develop my own way.

But, I've heard many horror stories from illustrator friends where
teachers would practically ruin a student's self confidence and art with
harsh criticisms.......actually, I've known of several students to drop
out of art school never to do art again because they were so discouraged
by the professors they got stuck with.

I can't imagine where I'd be today if I had had a few more of the harsh
taskmasters such as that one "bad" professor I had to put up with during
my senior year.
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures


rjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

I have both teached and was an adviser in the ministry of education,,
regarding handcraft courses. I used to comne into classes and see ,,
works that were Teacher copies , which made me feel helpless ,,,
i
tried to tell and teach for students to be THEMSELVES ,,,, use own
color combinations etc,,,, use ther homebackground etc... so if you
ask me ?

from my lonng experience, teaching techniques is good , but
one should strees to the students Not to copy the teacher`s or each
other`s work ,,,,,and yes even the most creative student

2) I don't believe for a minute that any
of this is stifling anyone's creativity one iota.
peer pressure, commercial `accepted` trends Do silence a lot of
budding crativity ... many a `natural` talent , gets lost , just in
the process of this courses ,,,Look at the wonderful Samplers , Most
of us cherish ,,, theat are aklways made in the same format , what
distinguishes them are mostly the Mistakes , the girl that used
another color than her friends , another pattern , not commonly used.
speling mistakes of those times , make it more Costly now , because
the individuality comes through !!!

i dealt with many a student who
were styfeled by a teacher who thougt she was God almighty. We had a
teacher who was so keen on Wooden Frames that she made all her
students Frame every piece of cloth , and many a time she made them
make little frames on the big work , i have had tens of complaints
every year about her. Thus i sat in her class , talked with students
and ex students , and finnaly called in a general meeting with her the
classes she taught , and we made a general debate about " TO frame or
Not to frame ,, and if To frame Why in That method ???"

In the first
hour students were afraid to say , how they felt about it , since
Madam Teacher ,, would Throw a `dirty` look , at every one saying they
were not happy with it ,,, the discussion went on long enough and i
brought 2 Guest , Well known artists , who explained their point of
view..., and waht they felt coming into the `End of Year Exhibition ~
seeing 30 similar works ..... similar in color shape , numbers of
stiches etc,......

Ericka , none of the students of these teachers / courses , has
produced any active artist... all stayed crafters or teachers, and one
of the reasons people enlisted to those classes was always "I want to
become a FiberArtist ????

so what happened to this wish ???. Why do
some of my other colleagues who treach , strongly forbidding any
copying , and making their students THINK for themselves and use as
much as possible different , cheapest materials , preferable found at
home , leftovers etc [ and by this already eliminating the possibility
of students having the same materials !!!!] `breed` year after year ,
New Artists , wonderful creative original artists,

Both kinds of
teachers got the same `kind` of students !!!! who came into the system
for the same reason and went through the same exams to be accepted
???....
Does this answer your question ??

mirjam

On 3/28/04 10:35 PM, in article ,
"Seanette Blaylock" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak had some very interesting
things to say about Scrapbooking WAS Meet Matilda Mallstomper:

I'm with Cheryl -- I don't "get" the current scrapbooking trend.
Oh thank goodness - I have wondered if I was the only person not into it.
And stamping for that matter.
Not my thing either [although rubber stampers use stuff that also
works nicely on polymer clay :-)].
The clay I at least understand. I'm not interested for myself, but can see
the attraction.
Try it sometime. :-)
OH no you don't, stitching, knitting, crocheting and beads are enough!

But you can *make* *really* neat beads with polymer clay! :-)

Must resist the temptation,
I must, I must!

Cheryl

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
A month +++ there was a lot of fuss here about an online questionare
that would show People where they standpolitically , many here pointed
out that this was indeed a kind of gimmick , and that people should
know where they stand politicaly , and not need others to tell them .

And some disagreed, pointing out that questionaires can be helpful in
giving us insight to where we stand. Sometimes we don't know how we
will answer a question until we actually answer it. I use journals in
my classes this way, asking students to answer various questions. My
goal is not to push them in a particular direction, but to help them see
where they alread stand.

But the point is that some people can't figure out
what feels right for themselves,

Now look what you wrote ,,, is this written by an American citizen in
the great democracy ???? or are you regarding all people as unthinking
persons ,,,, people know what they like to eat , people are entrusted
with driving liscences and drive on their own ,,, why not make the
materials available , but NOT push the courses of HOW one SHOULD use
them ,,,,I trust every one can try and look and feel for themselves.,
in their own time and tempo.

Who said anybody was pushing anything? Scrapbooking does make the
materials available and shows people how to use them. Do you only use
techniques you develop yourself, or is it sometimes useful you to have
someone show you something new?

amount of time they have available to get it done. And
if some of those people would rather learn a limited set
of techniques

I have nothing against the learning anything , i have a lot against
dictations of anything from above or from peer pressure !!!!

I think perhaps you are reading more peer pressure and dictation into
scrapbooking than exists. It certainly has not been my experience with
scrapping that anyone told me what I MUST do.

They choose that method because they *like*
it and *want* to make scrapbooks that look that way,

Advertising TRENDS , fashions etc,,, are not helping free choices ,,,,
anf if you choose what all your neigbours chose ,, was this free
choice ????

But people don't all choose the same things! There are a ton of
options. Even in those cases where one buys an album kit, everyone puts
it together differently. And often if one starts with a kit, then one
learns techniques that allow one to move beyond the kit and to purchase
items separately and then even to incorporate found items. It's a process.

least at that moment in time. If that's what they want,
more power to 'em.

So why Suddenly they ALLLLLL want it at this point of time ???
looks moire like the elections in some countries were 99% choose ,
again for the dictator....

Again, Mirjam, I think you are assuming facts not in evidence.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:


But the point is that some people can't figure out
what feels right for themselves,

Now look what you wrote ,,, is this written by an American citizen in
the great democracy ???? or are you regarding all people as unthinking
persons ,,,, people know what they like to eat , people are entrusted
with driving liscences and drive on their own ,,, why not make the
materials available , but NOT push the courses of HOW one SHOULD use
them ,,,,I trust every one can try and look and feel for themselves.,
in their own time and tempo.

I think if you are going to go about making these
sorts of accusations, you might learn a bit more about the
processes that you're criticizing. I haven't yet seen a
single person tied up and subjected to a class. As far as
I can tell, they're all going of their own volition and are
quite happy with what they're doing. They certainly seem
eager to go back (and somewhat mystified I'm not currently
inclined to join them).
I trust that people can make their own decisions
that are best for themselves. If that means they want to
take classes and buy products or even follow specific
methods, well, they're welcome to in my book. And if they'd
prefer to strike out on their own and chart new creative
territory, bully for them, they can do that too. I have
no interest in devaluing anyone's approach.

I have nothing against the learning anything , i have a lot against
dictations of anything from above or from peer pressure !!!!p

Why do you assume that they are being dictated to
or that they're succumbing to peer pressure? Maybe they
just like it.

Advertising TRENDS , fashions etc,,, are not helping free choices ,,,,
anf if you choose what all your neigbours chose ,, was this free
choice ????

So...unless you always choose differently from
everyone around you, you're a media victim?

So why Suddenly they ALLLLLL want it at this point of time ???

Um, as far as I can tell, the scrapbooks that people
produce, even using all these commercial products and techniques,
are quite different from one another. Sure, they may have
similarities, but they are quite different. Heck, as a musician
(and not a composer) I perform the EXACT SAME NOTES as thousands
or millions of other people every time I play a piece. I like
to labor under the delusion that when *I* do it, even though
I'm playing exactly the same notes, it's still *my* interpretation
and it's therefore different from what someone else would do.
And yet, I'm the product of more than 20 years of rigorous
classical training, which had a *whole* lot of "thou shalts"
in it. Oddly enough, I still seem to be able to interpret
and play those pieces in my own way. I'm quite sure that
any scrapbooker who has anything he or she wants to say with
his or her scrapbook is quite capable of doing the same thing.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Meredith the question is `Are they gettting THEIR story on paper ???
or are they only telling the details that everybody else tells ???
The form might make a big difference , between private and Uniform

And if the choice is between a form that makes the
project seem approachable and doable to the individual, or
no project at all because the person doesn't wish to spend
the time or energy figuring it out?

Best wishes,
Ericka

On 3/29/04 9:43 AM, in article , "Ericka
Kammerer" wrote:

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:


But the point is that some people can't figure out
what feels right for themselves,

Now look what you wrote ,,, is this written by an American citizen in
the great democracy ???? or are you regarding all people as unthinking
persons ,,,, people know what they like to eat , people are entrusted
with driving liscences and drive on their own ,,, why not make the
materials available , but NOT push the courses of HOW one SHOULD use
them ,,,,I trust every one can try and look and feel for themselves.,
in their own time and tempo.

I think if you are going to go about making these
sorts of accusations, you might learn a bit more about the
processes that you're criticizing. I haven't yet seen a
single person tied up and subjected to a class. As far as
I can tell, they're all going of their own volition and are
quite happy with what they're doing. They certainly seem
eager to go back (and somewhat mystified I'm not currently
inclined to join them).

LOL - I will admit to feeling like I've been tied up and subjected to a
"class" when I go a someone's house for coffee and cookies and discover it's
a cover for selling stamping/candles/scrap book/baskets...(you get the
picture).

Cheryl

Lula thank you for your letter ,,, about this hard problem , It
started with my 2nd solo when somebody asked to see my work books, and
i was stupid or naive enough to lend them to that person , who copied
my texts etc,,,, Now my workbooks which I kept even when i wasn`t an
artist , but also while i `just made craft /useful stuff `,,, are
quite enigmatic , i have drawings, little notes about how materials
`behaved ` at certain times , cahnge of mind in middle of work and
other intimitate observations , i am not so sure such stuff interestes
many people ,,,,, Now adays Art is seen by people either in exhibtions
or on the net ,,, articles i wrote or were written about ,my work are
kept in 3 places beside my shelves ] ,, so i think it is enough ,
,,This is the most important part ... If anybody has the `right` to
it i canalways Give/donate it to the museum that keeps and Artist file
on me ,,, But i really haven`t made up my mind.... Just recieved a
catalog of a Virtual Museum , that an artist made of his art ,,, the
Artist died in an accicent and a young curator [ very promissing ],
made an exhibition/ catalog for all this stuff.... after reading this
work i may be a bit more informed about the whole dillema .
I am noyt such an important Artists as Fortuny , i am jusy me , doing
waht my heart says about my biography , i am a part of a great group
of people and part of my story is shared with others, part is personal
to me ,,,,
I am not sure , and until i make up my mind ,,,They will be kept in a
closed closet .
mirjam

DEB this is a very interesting statement ......
I would say that for some, it will not give the desired effect for
what they are attempting to create.
It made me ponder , Just at this time i prepare a lecture about My art

sources , it made me look , think , ponder about symbols i use ,
colors that repeat themselves etc,,,,Now i never Attempt to create , I
just have stories or impressions and one day the come out , i know
that if i will combine this threads to that cloth in This technique i
will have A work, sometimes a part here or there doesn`t feel right ,
so i tray out until it is Right ... But i always look into myself ,
not into any accepted form ....or something i saw elsewhere... I take
a long walk , or sit and think , or read ,,, until POOOP up comes the
knowledge that 'THIS is the solution !!!"
And i feel that everyone is capeable of Looking inside ,,, people who
medidate , Might do it ,,
I think it is in the hand and eye of the person making the project.
I believe that peole will gaain much more by going to museums ,
looking at pictures , from nature - to art pictures , at colors [
cloth and threads included] listen to music , watch a good film ,, all
will train their eyes to a self Ballance to create their own ...
To you, who obviously have some inborn talent for art and a creative
eye and preference that others may not have, it is your preference to
allow the mistake to stay and 'make a statement'.
Aha But isn`t the whole world Not perfect , and aren`t we all not the
children of mistakes , that changed the course of biology ,,, to end
up with us ???
Maybe it is in the eye ? Don`t you think Van Gogh was Astigmatic ?
their preference that they prefer to have the piece "perfect" to
*their* eye.
OK
Neither is wrong, it is just the personal preference.
Who said anything about wrong ,, you just did , i am the one speaking
about Personal choices ,,,,,,Vis -a vis Dictated `esthetic` rules
I've done projects where I've made some pretty bad blunders while
stitching, and by the time I realized it, was not willing to go back
and do it over, but "worked" it in. The finished project, looks fine.
Others don't realize there was an "oops", but *I* know where those
mistakes are and can spot them every time.

On other projects, I will be a fanatic about ripping and restitching
until it is "perfect"....it all depends on my mood.
So you see You choose !!! Good for you !!!!
And if they want to use a commercial company to get ideas or spark
something they may not have thought of?
You miss my point i never had anything against using buying collecting
what ever materials, in whichever way , what i find hard to accept is
the copying of Formats , of `Accepted` and `not done` things !!!
mirjam
--
Deb

WIP: How Great Thou Art (Leisure Arts Greatest Hymns II)
EarthDancer (Butternut Road)