As OT as I can get(might bother some)

Tina...I have just sat here and read, and re-read everything you've posted,
trying to make sense of it. I would have responded sooner, but for somereason,
our moniter quit working yesterday afternoon and wouldn't turn back on until
just a little while ago.
I do feel you have said what you've said from a sense of "tough love," but I
keep seeing the bottom line as this:

It feels like you don't think I should do anything but focus on the problems.
That I should do nothing to ease my own stress levels by finding distractions
(no matter how temporary they might be) or doing the few things I am able to do
without worrying about cost or time and such. And yes, beading, within reason,
is something (well, almost the only thing nowadays) that I can do without
guilt, because on average, I've spent about 10 bucks a month on it. (Excepting
Marjean's sale, which was a bonus because the monies for that turned out to
come availible unexpectedly..I didn't use my child support check on it, I paid
our bills with that instead)

I don't feel that on the whole, I am co-dependent. I _do_ feel that based on
your descriptions, there are some (very few) situations that I may behave in a
co-dependednt manner. But that doesn't bother me--rather, it _works_ for me.
And him. My feelings on that are simple--with all that we've been through in
our short married life...we're lucky to have made it this far, and _anything_ I
can do (yes, he does his part, too) to keep us going strong is completely fine
by me. Even if that includes not sharing the true extent of my worries about
this. Because in every other situation that has ever arisen between us, I have
gone the length to make him understand where I was on things, so I feel that
this time, I have the right to hold back. The fact that I don't have to worry
overmuch about his reactions is just icing.

I'm getting very lost in my train of thought on this, so I think I'll stop for
now. But two more things....you do realize that my comment on a camera was
said in wishful thinking? There is no way I could plonk out that kind of
money--not now, and not soon.....and I would never let my own personal desires
interfer with where our cash flow has to go.

If I'm getting the wrong impression from your posts, please, please correct
me...and just so you know, no, they didn't upset me, because I appreciate
seeing how others see me and mine



~Candace~
Orphan Beads Low cost and bartering for the financially challenged beader
http://snipurl.com/6s4t

Thank you Patti, very much.


(((((Candace)))) I think every woman I know has had pregnancy scares - we
can
all identify with what you are feeling. You have every right to stress or
vent
or scream or bead as much as you need to while waiting to see what happens.
It's perfectly all right. We're open on nights and weekends, come in any
time.
Patti


~Candace~
Orphan Beads Low cost and bartering for the financially challenged beader
http://snipurl.com/6s4t

Snipped from Kathy NV:


I read it and re-read it as well, but I think I know Tina a little better
than you do. (Tina, if I'm way off, shout it out) Tina is coming from a
totally different place than say, me. Some of the experiences she's had make

mine look like a walk in the park, and there are times she's had to make some

very, very tough decisions just to survive.


This is a good point, thank you. And I have always thought it's a good thing
to have views from all kinds


It feels like you don't think I should do anything but focus on the
problems.

I didn't take that away at all. She was saying that in order to care for
others, you have to care for yourself first. I can see both sides of the
issue with telling/not telling your husband about your fears - telling him
might raise the overall stress level already in your life. Not telling him
adds to your stress, because you have this huge issue on your mind and in
your heart, and you aren't sharing it with the person who is supposed to be
closest to you.

Tina is worrying that the stress you're putting yourself through is
self-destructive, and considering her (and my) lifelong battles with
depression, I can see her point. She was simply pointing out that your
husband is a grown-up, and as such, he shouldn't need you to protect him from

the real problems grown ups face.


Ahhhhh that helps me out quite a bit! But you see, it isn't that HE needs
that from me--it's that I need to do that. Perhaps this is a character flaw on
my part, because of the self destructive nature of it? Honestly though, it
does feel like it helps more hurts, in this situation. (I can't stress that
enough..this is NOT the norm for our issues)



Oh My Goodness. Please send me your address via private email. I have a
crate or three of beads that need a new home. You don't even want to know
how much I've spent - I don't even want to know how much I've spent.

You can do a lot of things to ease your stress without guilt: take walks, go

to the playground and let the kids run themselves ragged so they take a long
nap (and you take one yourself), get a good totally mindless book from the
library and enjoy it. Write big, long nasty letters to all the people who
**** you off (but don't mail them - I generally save them on the hard drive
for a little while, and delete them when I'm feeling better). Learn
something new - I like learning more languages (I speak about five - some of
them fairly well, too) Get one perfect piece of your favorite fruit and eat
it all by yourself. Make a bracelet and give it to a stranger who is having a

bad day. Tell a friend why you appreciate her (a letter will be treasured,
but a phone call is easier). Look at your sleeping babies and marvel at what

a miracle they are.

*smiles* Thank you, Kathy And when I said that about beading, I was merely
referencing things that cost--we do go for walks (if I've slathered on a pint
of bug repellent), the playground is literally around the corner, so we're
there often, I check out a dozen or more books at a time from the library, and
writing nasty letters has always been a past time of mine (sana mailing them,
mostly) I also bake, write poems and short stories, chat with internet friends
a lot, and a whole myriad of other thngs.



I don't feel that on the whole, I am co-dependent. I _do_ feel that based
on
your descriptions, there are some (very few) situations that I may behave
in
a
co-dependednt manner. But that doesn't bother me--rather, it _works_ for
me.
And him.

I thought that co-dependent was a harsh term, but again, I see exactly where
Tina's coming from. You're sacrificing some comfort you desperately need to
spare your husband from having to come to terms with something that might
upset him. I don't know you or your husband well, I don't know if that's the

right call or not.

I haven't spared him from coming to terms with this--he's fully aware of the
situation. It seems more than one person has gotten that mistaken......but
he's known from the minute we both realized it.


But two more things....you do realize that my comment on a camera was
said in wishful thinking? There is no way I could plonk out that kind of
money--not now, and not soon.....and I would never let my own personal
desires interfer with where our cash flow has to go.

I realized it, and figured it was a future dream, like my plans to go to
Germany. If it happens, it's going to be a while. Fortunately, the price of

digital cameras keeps dropping, and when you're ready, you should be able to
get a marvelous camera for a fraction of the price of what you'd pay today.

This is true


If I'm getting the wrong impression from your posts, please, please correct
me...and just so you know, no, they didn't upset me, because I appreciate
seeing how others see me and mine

Great attitude. That's a neat way of viewing the world. I just run on the
assumption that everyone thinks I'm a whack job, and leave it at that.

Kathy N-V

Momma told me to be open minded, so open minded I be

And Tina, when you read this, and the other posting, please disregard any...how
do I put this....harshness that may come thru. I was typing and trying to
think while doing two other things, so I wasn't up to par on how I said what I
wanted to say. *hugs for Tina, and hugs for Kathy*

~Candace~
Orphan Beads Low cost and bartering for the financially challenged beader
http://snipurl.com/6s4t

Candace this is a totally unrelated thought on your situation (as in, unrelated
to the threads posted so far). I was doing some work at the ranch today, which
I am leaving soon, and I came to a deeper understanding of something I heard a
long time ago. It might, or might not, apply to you but I thought of you when
I thought of this:

Sometimes when we make plans, God laughs.

I don't often try to interpret people's lives for them -- I find that
insulting, in a way, as if they can't do it themselves or as if I have some
vast store of knowledge appropriate to everyone and every situation. Having
said that, LOL, (I'm now going to interpret GOD. How's that for a laughing
matter?) It might be quite possible that no matter what the doctors say, that
God has a different plan for you. Sometimes we just have to go with what is
dealt to us. And if there is a lesson in there, better believe we learn the
lessons best that hit the hardest.

Love you.


Becki
"In between the moon and you, the angels have a better view of the crumbling
difference between wrong and right." -- Counting Crows

I just got all three of these posts. Probably a blessing, because I was
already beginning to go to "Oh no, How am I going to answer this can of
worms I've opened." Kathy, thanks greatly for your help.

First let me say, I'm do know whether you're co-dependent or not. Second, I
don't consider it a character flaw, but rather I see the recognition of it
as a doorway to amazing growth.

But I learned a long time ago, especially with AA, that if I let people know
that a problem exists (in life in general) it might help someone. And not
necessarily the person I tell about it. I believe in spreading information.
And though I'm over-sensitive about somethings, there are somethings I'm
willing to be criticized for.

And yes, I do feel that in order to enjoy life and to care for others, you
must be well, yourself. And this is such a huge thing to deal with. And
personal power is something women are often talked out of, denied, etc. And
personal power, and belief in yourself are vital to mental health and the
physical and financial health that are affected by it.

Frankly, Candace, I didn't see your response as harsh. Maybe because I
didn't mean mine to be. But also because, if I say something you need to
hear and can't process, that's OK. And if I say something you don't need to
hear, maybe it will be useful to someone else.

But I do sometimes speak as if people already know me and where I'm coming
from. (As my daughter would say "Bad Mom, bad Mom). Thanks for the
interpretation, Kathy. I really appreciate it.

Tina


"Candace" wrote in message
...
Snipped from Kathy NV:


I read it and re-read it as well, but I think I know Tina a little better
than you do. (Tina, if I'm way off, shout it out) Tina is coming from a
totally different place than say, me. Some of the experiences she's had
make

mine look like a walk in the park, and there are times she's had to make
some

very, very tough decisions just to survive.


This is a good point, thank you. And I have always thought it's a good
thing
to have views from all kinds


It feels like you don't think I should do anything but focus on the
problems.

I didn't take that away at all. She was saying that in order to care for
others, you have to care for yourself first. I can see both sides of the
issue with telling/not telling your husband about your fears - telling
him
might raise the overall stress level already in your life. Not telling
him
adds to your stress, because you have this huge issue on your mind and in
your heart, and you aren't sharing it with the person who is supposed to
be
closest to you.

Tina is worrying that the stress you're putting yourself through is
self-destructive, and considering her (and my) lifelong battles with
depression, I can see her point. She was simply pointing out that your
husband is a grown-up, and as such, he shouldn't need you to protect him
from

the real problems grown ups face.


Ahhhhh that helps me out quite a bit! But you see, it isn't that HE
needs
that from me--it's that I need to do that. Perhaps this is a character
flaw on
my part, because of the self destructive nature of it? Honestly though,
it
does feel like it helps more hurts, in this situation. (I can't stress
that
enough..this is NOT the norm for our issues)



Oh My Goodness. Please send me your address via private email. I have a
crate or three of beads that need a new home. You don't even want to
know
how much I've spent - I don't even want to know how much I've spent.

You can do a lot of things to ease your stress without guilt: take
walks, go

to the playground and let the kids run themselves ragged so they take a
long
nap (and you take one yourself), get a good totally mindless book from
the
library and enjoy it. Write big, long nasty letters to all the people
who
**** you off (but don't mail them - I generally save them on the hard
drive
for a little while, and delete them when I'm feeling better). Learn
something new - I like learning more languages (I speak about five - some
of
them fairly well, too) Get one perfect piece of your favorite fruit and
eat
it all by yourself. Make a bracelet and give it to a stranger who is
having a

bad day. Tell a friend why you appreciate her (a letter will be
treasured,
but a phone call is easier). Look at your sleeping babies and marvel at
what

a miracle they are.

*smiles* Thank you, Kathy And when I said that about beading, I was
merely
referencing things that cost--we do go for walks (if I've slathered on a
pint
of bug repellent), the playground is literally around the corner, so we're
there often, I check out a dozen or more books at a time from the library,
and
writing nasty letters has always been a past time of mine (sana mailing
them,
mostly) I also bake, write poems and short stories, chat with internet
friends
a lot, and a whole myriad of other thngs.



I don't feel that on the whole, I am co-dependent. I _do_ feel that
based
on
your descriptions, there are some (very few) situations that I may
behave
in
a
co-dependednt manner. But that doesn't bother me--rather, it _works_
for
me.
And him.

I thought that co-dependent was a harsh term, but again, I see exactly
where
Tina's coming from. You're sacrificing some comfort you desperately need
to
spare your husband from having to come to terms with something that might
upset him. I don't know you or your husband well, I don't know if that's
the

right call or not.

I haven't spared him from coming to terms with this--he's fully aware of
the
situation. It seems more than one person has gotten that
mistaken......but
he's known from the minute we both realized it.


But two more things....you do realize that my comment on a camera was
said in wishful thinking? There is no way I could plonk out that kind
of
money--not now, and not soon.....and I would never let my own personal
desires interfer with where our cash flow has to go.

I realized it, and figured it was a future dream, like my plans to go to
Germany. If it happens, it's going to be a while. Fortunately, the
price of

digital cameras keeps dropping, and when you're ready, you should be able
to
get a marvelous camera for a fraction of the price of what you'd pay
today.

This is true


If I'm getting the wrong impression from your posts, please, please
correct
me...and just so you know, no, they didn't upset me, because I
appreciate
seeing how others see me and mine

Great attitude. That's a neat way of viewing the world. I just run on
the
assumption that everyone thinks I'm a whack job, and leave it at that.

Kathy N-V

Momma told me to be open minded, so open minded I be

And Tina, when you read this, and the other posting, please disregard
any...how
do I put this....harshness that may come thru. I was typing and trying to
think while doing two other things, so I wasn't up to par on how I said
what I
wanted to say. *hugs for Tina, and hugs for Kathy*

~Candace~
Orphan Beads Low cost and bartering for the financially challenged
beader
http://snipurl.com/6s4t

You could very well be right, Becki, and I'll strive to keep what you said
fresh in my thoughts.

Feelin' da love...and returning it ten fold


Candace this is a totally unrelated thought on your situation (as in,
unrelated
to the threads posted so far). I was doing some work at the ranch today,
which
I am leaving soon, and I came to a deeper understanding of something I heard
a
long time ago. It might, or might not, apply to you but I thought of you
when
I thought of this:

Sometimes when we make plans, God laughs.

I don't often try to interpret people's lives for them -- I find that
insulting, in a way, as if they can't do it themselves or as if I have some
vast store of knowledge appropriate to everyone and every situation. Having
said that, LOL, (I'm now going to interpret GOD. How's that for a laughing
matter?) It might be quite possible that no matter what the doctors say, that
God has a different plan for you. Sometimes we just have to go with what is
dealt to us. And if there is a lesson in there, better believe we learn the
lessons best that hit the hardest.

Love you.


Becki
"In between the moon and you, the angels have a better view of the crumbling
difference between wrong and right." -- Counting Crows








~Candace~
Orphan Beads Low cost and bartering for the financially challenged beader
http://snipurl.com/6s4t

(((((((((((((((Tina))))))))))))))))))))


I just got all three of these posts. Probably a blessing, because I was
already beginning to go to "Oh no, How am I going to answer this can of
worms I've opened." Kathy, thanks greatly for your help.

First let me say, I'm do know whether you're co-dependent or not. Second, I
don't consider it a character flaw, but rather I see the recognition of it
as a doorway to amazing growth.

But I learned a long time ago, especially with AA, that if I let people know
that a problem exists (in life in general) it might help someone. And not
necessarily the person I tell about it. I believe in spreading information.
And though I'm over-sensitive about somethings, there are somethings I'm
willing to be criticized for.

And yes, I do feel that in order to enjoy life and to care for others, you
must be well, yourself. And this is such a huge thing to deal with. And
personal power is something women are often talked out of, denied, etc. And
personal power, and belief in yourself are vital to mental health and the
physical and financial health that are affected by it.

Frankly, Candace, I didn't see your response as harsh. Maybe because I
didn't mean mine to be. But also because, if I say something you need to
hear and can't process, that's OK. And if I say something you don't need to
hear, maybe it will be useful to someone else.

But I do sometimes speak as if people already know me and where I'm coming
from. (As my daughter would say "Bad Mom, bad Mom). Thanks for the
interpretation, Kathy. I really appreciate it.

Tina

~Candace~
Orphan Beads Low cost and bartering for the financially challenged beader
http://snipurl.com/6s4t