Ot i wanted for once to see

It was as you can read in the Bible
Al Neharot Bavel Sham jashavnu weBahinu ....... on the rivers of
Babilon we sat and cried......
mirjam

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:12:25 GMT, "Lucille"
wrote:

If my memory serves me correctly, and I haven't thought about any of this
for many years, your explanation is correct. Perhaps Mirjam, or someone who
knows this kind of thing, can confirm this.

And another reminder...this was said way before the holocaust. I know
Jerusalem was my grandmother's dream place.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was said millenia ago during the
Babylonian exile.


--
Deb
Works in Progress:
L&L "The Spirit of Christmas"
2002 Christmas Angel
Meg's Lacy Sampler Pouch
Marbek Nativity
Needlework Necessary

I have Numerous l;eters from Native Americans , wjop understand my
Historical research and who complain about their situation , culturaly
in Usa ,
mirjam


On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 03:18:39 GMT, DebM wrote:

I'm not sure exactly where you get the idea that the Native Americans
are being denied their own culture, since that is not the case at all.
Native American lands are, in effect, autonomous and are governments
in their own right. What is interesting, is that with the more recent
laws and court rullings regarding the lands that were taken from them,
it is becoming much easier for the Nations to expand their gambling
operations into cities, by threatening legal action to "reclaim" their
land, then offering a settlement for a chunk of prime property to
build the casinos on.
Ever seen a map of Palm Springs, California? It's a checkerboard
patchwork of Native land and non-Native land.
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.

Tia Mary-remove nekoluvr to reply wrote:
From: "Dr. Brat"


Judaism is a religion AND a nationality, Pat. One can be Jewish without
being religious, just as one can be Irish without being religious.


HMMM -- I honestly don't think that the term "Jewish" is used to denote a
nationality. The people who live in Israel are Iraelis -- some are of the
Jewish faith, some are of other faiths. Not wanting to start a flame within a
flame, OK :-)). This is what I was told by several Jewish co-workers and one
of my Intercultural Communication Professors at University CiaoMeow ^;;^
.

Citizenship and nationality are not the same thing. A Kurd can be a
citizen of Turkey but isn't of Turkish nationality. A citizen of the
U.K. may be Welsh or Scotch or Jewish rather than English. It's a fine
but important distinction and Jewish is both a religion and a
nationality. Perhaps the word ethnicity works better for you?

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Yeah you are right , it is high time, Do you want to listen ?????

Sure. Do you?

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

From: "Dr. Brat"

........... It's a fine
but important distinction and Jewish is both a religion and a
nationality. Perhaps the word ethnicity works better for you?

AHHHH -- OK -- I see what you mean. when nationality is mentioned, to me
that means "belonging" to a particular nation or country, usually (not always)
living there and being able to vote (if that's possible in that particular
country). In my mind when the term Jewish is used, it means someone who was
raised in the Jewish faith (whether they practice or not) and has absolutely
nothing to do with where that person lives. An Israeli Jew is a citizen of
Israel who adheres to the Jewish faith; an Israeli Muslim is a citizren of
Israel and adheres to the tenets of Islam. Same for other faiths and
countries.
Isn't language and semantics fun :-)? It's also a HUGE part of why we have
flame wars and all those other types of wars!! CiaoMeow ^;;^
..
PAX, Tia Mary ^;;^
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their
WHISKERS!!
Nothing is complete without a few cat hairs!

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen"
I have Numerous l;eters from Native Americans , wjop understand my
Historical research and who complain about their situation

Do you have information about David Ahenakew, former chief of the Assembly
of First Nations of Canada, currently under indictment for hate crimes in
my province for his statements that Hitler was doing the right thing when
he "fried" (his horrible words) Jewish people??
It might be an interesting counterpoint.
Dawne

Thank you for the link--it is absolutely lovely. For me, it would be a
lifelong project!! Let us know when you have the pleasure of using yours.
Dawne

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:19:06 -0300, wrote:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:36:36 GMT, (Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

Good Morning to you DEBM , first i considered writing you a long
reasoned letter , than i saw your sig line and i thnk it will help me
explain to you , that you are wrongly judging , esp when you try to
tell me i should not get insulted as you do not read insults into the
posts people write , so i took your sig line and showed it to some
people here and here are their responses
Deb
Works in Progress:
L&L "The Spirit of Christmas"
2002 Christmas Angel
Meg's Lacy Sampler Pouch
Marbek Nativity
Needlework Necessary
a muslim friend shown this sig line , said ;' careful mirjam this is a
Christian Missionary they are all Vicious".
A Christian Arab colleague : "That is a Catholic for sure "
A Jewish friend smiled and asked : Does she know what marbek means ??
esp a Marbek calf ??? she didn`t want to comment about the Christmas
stuff ," with a "You know what THEY did to us in the Name THAT!!!"
i hope this will show you something
Because i am really fed up with explaining to those who don`t want to
listen.
mirjam
My stash consists of a large number of botanicals and a large number
(though not so nearly as some stitchers; I'm particular about mine) of
dragons. Wonder what that says about me.
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.

On 04 Sep 2003 23:31:14 GMT, (KDLark) wrote:

Laren wrote:
Tell that to the Native Americans, the Irish, the Australian
Aborigines, the New Zealand Maori, the Native Hawaiians, the
Albanians, the Kurds, need I go on??


My husband teaches history, and one of his major areas of interest is the
Apache "Indians." (He is probably suffering terrible withdrawl because all of
his books about them are shut up in a storage closet!) One of the more
interesting facts he has told me about the Apache is that they were not there
"first" in Arizona. In fact, they arrived after the Mexicans. The Apache
lifestyle revolved around raiding other groups, something which the American
and Mexicans considered Not a Nice Way To Behave, and makes their efforts to
corral the Apache and get them to "make nice" or die more
understandable...although not at all praiseworthy. (By the way, Mexicans killed
Geromino's first family, not the white soldiers featured in a certain Hollywood
verison.) The point is, though, that's it not always easy to figure out "who
was first."

Katrina L.
Best guess for the arrival of the Apache in their "traditional" lands
is sometime between the 1200s and 1500s. How was that "after" the
Mexicans? And what are "Mexicans"? Maya? Aztec? Or the modern
"Mexicans": a blend of Maya and Aztec and European and marauding
Apache?
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:12:04 -0300, wrote:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:00:22 GMT, (Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

Laren i think I can sum Elizabeth ideas as Such:"No matter what
anybody says , The Israelies are always Wrong". And YES Elizabeth i do
Say and claim, that WE too have a right to a piece of land to call our
own !!!!! because if you do not recognize that , what are we exactly
talking about ????? To remindyou the UN itself recognized this right
!!!
mirjam

I would leave the UN out of this equation Mirjam. Israel
consistently disobeys the UN. It is no use upholding it when it
suits Israel and ignoring it when it doesn't.

Just like the USA!! What a great example *we* are to the rest of the
world! check your sarcasm meters; they're probably on the fritz now
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.