Copyright and stealing (ON topic)

In article , lid
wrote:

Disney is behind the recent changes in copyright law. It seems that
Mickey was going to go into the public domain, due to the age of the
design, and Disney just couldn't bear the thought of losing all the $$
they generate with him and other old Disney designs.
Gail--not a lawyer

copyrights can be renewed. No big deal.

marcella

Disney can say it, but sometimes the little guy wins one.
See this site:
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...eylawsuit.html

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:20:02 +0100, Hanne Gottliebsen
wrote:


But, but, how does this match with Disney (and others) saying that we
cannot make a quilt using licenced Disney fabric and then sell that
quilt? Surely, swapping clothes for quilt does not change the copyright
status of the cloth?

Just confused too,

Hanne in London

But it used to not be a forever thing. There was a limit. A lot of
great literature is now in the public domain. That is why you can buy
some of these books so cheaply. Disney "arranged" to have the laws
changed so that Mickey did not fall into the public domain as he
should have.

Linda
PATCHogue, NY

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:44:33 -0700, Marcella Peek
wrote:


copyrights can be renewed. No big deal.

marcella

Not sure about that Phyllis ... you know how they are about
'billable' hours. PAT

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:
Just curious, Pat. I'll never make a quilt worth selling, I'm sure. I
can understand someone who isn't an attorney having to make a disclaimer
about legal advice, I can understand an attorney not providing legal
advice in a state in which he or she is not licensed to practice, but
couldn't an attorney inform us of what the federal copyright law "says"
regarding a specific issue without breaching ethics and without giving
legal advice?

Pat in Virginia wrote:

Phyllis, If you are in business and need this information, perhaps you
should just hire an attorney. I think that no one is answering your
specific questions because either no one has the information, or
perhaps if she/he is a copyright attorney, it would be unethical to
jump in and provide legal service here.
PAT in VA/USA

Yes I do, but I guess my attorney is a peach. I called him Monday about
a problem I can't get solved, and he told me a way he thinks will work
without his intervention, ergo, no billable hours and no bill for the
phone consultation.

Pat in Virginia wrote:
Not sure about that Phyllis ... you know how they are about 'billable'
hours. PAT

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:

Just curious, Pat. I'll never make a quilt worth selling, I'm sure.
I can understand someone who isn't an attorney having to make a
disclaimer about legal advice, I can understand an attorney not
providing legal advice in a state in which he or she is not licensed
to practice, but couldn't an attorney inform us of what the federal
copyright law "says" regarding a specific issue without breaching
ethics and without giving legal advice?

Pat in Virginia wrote:

Phyllis, If you are in business and need this information, perhaps
you should just hire an attorney. I think that no one is answering
your specific questions because either no one has the information, or
perhaps if she/he is a copyright attorney, it would be unethical to
jump in and provide legal service here.
PAT in VA/USA

'The vessel with the pestle holds the potion that is poison, the flagon with
the dragon holds the brew that is true....'
Love, LOVE that movie...
--
Debi

Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?


"C & S" wrote in message
...
Wow, it's amazing what you can get off the internet. I've never seen the
movie but I'm sure my mother has. D

Carole
Champlain, NY


"Carey N." wrote in message
news:tvC7f.12580$c4.5721@trndny03...

"Mini One" wrote in message
...
"Kathy Applebaum" wrote in
om:


"Listpig" wrote in message
...
And in the policy of Complete Disclosure, a quote swiped from Danny
Kaye in
The Court Jester grinnin and duckin


We are very fond of the chalice from the palace and the flagon with
the dragon...


I love that movie! Haven't seen it in years & years... Ok, no that
long....
I'm not that old! ;o)





Dialog from the movie is at the bottom of the page, with a small sound
clip,
as well.
http://www.reelclassics.com/Actors/Kaye/kaye.htm

--
Carey in MA

Too bad I got the quote wrong... this movie reminds me so much of 'The
Princess Bride', which I also love. I need dvds of these... (off to discover
if 'The Court Jester' is available on DVD...)

--
Debi ("Anybody want a peanut?")

Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?


"Debi Matlack" wrote in message
.net...
'The vessel with the pestle holds the potion that is poison, the flagon
with the dragon holds the brew that is true....'
Love, LOVE that movie...
--
Debi

Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?


"C & S" wrote in message
...
Wow, it's amazing what you can get off the internet. I've never seen the
movie but I'm sure my mother has. D

Carole
Champlain, NY


"Carey N." wrote in message
news:tvC7f.12580$c4.5721@trndny03...

"Mini One" wrote in message
...
"Kathy Applebaum" wrote in
om:


"Listpig" wrote in message
...
And in the policy of Complete Disclosure, a quote swiped from Danny
Kaye in
The Court Jester grinnin and duckin


We are very fond of the chalice from the palace and the flagon with
the dragon...


I love that movie! Haven't seen it in years & years... Ok, no that
long....
I'm not that old! ;o)





Dialog from the movie is at the bottom of the page, with a small sound
clip,
as well.
http://www.reelclassics.com/Actors/Kaye/kaye.htm

--
Carey in MA

Of course you can sell a quilt made of disney fabric. That's just plain
hawgwash. I saw some of the princess fabric done into an adorable quilts at
the latest War Eagle Craft Fair.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Hanne Gottliebsen" wrote in message
...
SNIGDIBBLY wrote:
Anything sold for public use - once "consumed" can be sold. If you buy
fabric and make a garment from it you may most certainly sell it. It is
your end product - you made it. Once you purchase it you have bought the
right to "consume" it. Another Example: You go to your local music
store and buy a cd. You listen to it until it no longer is entertaining
to you. You have a garage sale and sell the same CD. You have not
infringed on the copyright laws because you are the purchasing consumer.
Now if you copy the CD and sell it as new and original - that's a crime
because you have misrepresented the item. You can't claim that you
designed the fabric and claim the name of the designer and sell it but
you can claim that you designed the outfit made from the copyright
protected fabric and sell it. Think about it.... all that fabric would
just have to sit on the shelf in the local LQS/Hancocks/Joanns/Walmart,
etc and never be used because it couldn't be cut and sewn. NOT!!


But, but, how does this match with Disney (and others) saying that we
cannot make a quilt using licenced Disney fabric and then sell that quilt?
Surely, swapping clothes for quilt does not change the copyright status of
the cloth?

Just confused too,

Hanne in London

Exactly.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Mini One" wrote in message
...
If I learned any of that stuff, I forgot. I needed the extra "hard
drive" space for other things.... )

As for you question:

From what I understand:

When discussing this issue we get confusion between copyright &
trademark.

The fabric is not copyrighted it is the design that is (c). So you can't
take the little flowers with swirly bits on it & reproduce them.

But the fabric itself can be used and made into anything you want and
you can do anything you want with the thing you made, including selling
it. This is "First Sale Doctrine", meaning that once the fabric is sole
the manufacturer loses any control of what is done with the fabric
(again, no the design but the actual fabric).

The trademark issues come when you want to use the designers name to
sell the product. This falls under "fair use" so you can say you have a
quilt to selling using X fabric as long as there is no confusion about
where the product comes from. ie. No one should think that X made that
product but that you made the product using X fabric.

I hope that is clear.

Emilia









Phyllis Nilsson wrote in
:

I've learned it, just don't understand it (but since I haven't
understood it for the previous 55 years, it doesn't seem likely I ever
will, unfortunately).

Wish someone could answer my questions though. And what about a
seamstress who makes clothes for others? Can they not buy a fabric to
use and sell the end product without a written permission slip from
the
designer or manufacturer? Just how far does a copyright go in
protecting a design? And what about garment knockoffs that put a
shoulder strap where there wasn't one or some other such change and
then
sell them in stores for thousands of dollar less as is done all the
time? Oh well, guess I'd have to read the whole darn copyright law to
get the answer, and I don't think that's going to happen.

Mini One wrote:
As for radio, planes, etc, try he

http://www.howstuffworks.com/


Emilia





Phyllis Nilsson wrote in
:


I've been reading this thread with great interest, but your question
is profound.

Since the patterns on fabrics are designed and then copyrighted, how
could any of us make anything for sale anywhere ever? I have to
admit, I've made many things for sale over the years and never even
thought about not being able to use a fabric because I never knew
fabrics could carry a copyright, and even if I "had" known, I know I
would have thought it was that I couldn't reproduce the fabric, not
that I couldn't make something with it and sell it.

If their permission is needed, does that mean we have to write to the
company everytime we want to use a different fabric? How would we
know who has the copyright, the designer or the fabric company? What
about garage sales where the fabric pieces no longer have selvage
edges so we wouldn't know which company even produced it? What about
older fabrics where the company can't be found (or may be out of
business) and the designer's name isn't listed?

I can understand a copyright not allowing someone to copy the
instructions or even copy the fabric and sell them, but it just never
occurred to me you could buy fabric and not be able to make something
out of it that you could sell. Of course, I still don't understand
how radios work, airplanes stay aloft, or battle ships don't sink
either.


Calico wrote:

This may be a weird slant on this topic but the fabric
designs/prints
themselves are copyrighted, right? So how does that figure into the
whole equation?


Linda in PA... who often thinks of weird stuff


"Julia in MN" wrote in
message ...


My pet peeve along these lines: people who would never think of
stealing a pattern from the store shelves, but who do not think
anything of asking to photocopy the copy that someone else
purchased.

As I understand it, one would find it quite difficult to copyright
a
quilt block; even though I may design a block that I haven't seen
before, the chances are the someone else has also created the same
block. For example, IMO there is no way that Quilt-In-A-Day can
have
a copyright on a log cabin or Irish chain block; they could never
prove any copyright infringement on any quilt you make from those
very common, traditional blocks. However, the instructions in the
Quilt-In-A-Day books are copyrighted; you should not be copying the
instructions to pass along to others. When a block design or quilt
design gets more innovative and unusual, the situation gets a bit
muddier, and it gets more difficult to claim that it is only the
pattern instructions that can be copyright.

Julia in MN
--
This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Anti-Virus

http://webpages.charter.net/jaccola/

Well said.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Mini One" wrote in message
...
Hanne Gottliebsen wrote in
:

SNIGDIBBLY wrote:
Anything sold for public use - once "consumed" can be sold. If you
buy fabric and make a garment from it you may most certainly sell it.
It is your end product - you made it. Once you purchase it you have
bought the right to "consume" it. Another Example: You go to your
local music store and buy a cd. You listen to it until it no longer
is entertaining to you. You have a garage sale and sell the same CD.
You have not infringed on the copyright laws because you are the
purchasing consumer. Now if you copy the CD and sell it as new and
original - that's a crime because you have misrepresented the item.
You can't claim that you designed the fabric and claim the name of
the designer and sell it but you can claim that you designed the
outfit made from the copyright protected fabric and sell it. Think
about it.... all that fabric would just have to sit on the shelf in
the local LQS/Hancocks/Joanns/Walmart, etc and never be used because
it couldn't be cut and sewn. NOT!!


But, but, how does this match with Disney (and others) saying that we
cannot make a quilt using licenced Disney fabric and then sell that
quilt? Surely, swapping clothes for quilt does not change the
copyright status of the cloth?

Just confused too,

Hanne in London

You can use Disney fabric & make a quilt & sell it. (No copyright laws
against this)

You just can't say that it is a Disney quilt. You have to say it is a
quilt made from Disney fabric & that you have no affiliation with
Disney. Basically, it has to be clear that you are not related to
Disney, you are not endorsed by Disney, & that you are just making
something from the fabric. (This is related to Trademark law, not
copyright)

Again, we are confusing copyright with trademark.
Copyright has to do with copying someone else work (ie. drawing the
Disney characters). Trademark has to do with using the tradename
improperly. (ie. pretending that your quilt is made by or endorsed byt
Disney in order to get customers to trust you (as they might trust
Disney products).

That's how I understand it.


Emilia
*incert disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer... etc.