Copyright and stealing (ON topic)

Raspberry truffle??? - yum~~????
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"Tricia" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll take some of that chocolate but the champagne must be passed on
despite wanting some -- must keep the body a temple should the next
generation decide to move in (now that I'm officially off my meds but
waiting for them to clear the system)

Since I'm passing on the champagne, I'll take a double dose of
chocolate -- the darker the better please!

Is that a raspberry truffle I see there .... *peeking over*

Giggle,
Tricia

Huh?
I don't get what your point is here.
TAria

SNIGDIBBLY wrote:
loL!! Way to go GF!! "I'm an attorney" is one of the biggest cons around.
Just saying it - don't make it so. Also most state laws are on the web for
anyone to read.

Anything sold for public use - once "consumed" can be sold. If you buy
fabric and make a garment from it you may most certainly sell it. It is
your end product - you made it. Once you purchase it you have bought the
right to "consume" it. Another Example: You go to your local music store
and buy a cd. You listen to it until it no longer is entertaining to you.
You have a garage sale and sell the same CD. You have not infringed on the
copyright laws because you are the purchasing consumer. Now if you copy the
CD and sell it as new and original - that's a crime because you have
misrepresented the item. You can't claim that you designed the fabric and
claim the name of the designer and sell it but you can claim that you
designed the outfit made from the copyright protected fabric and sell it.
Think about it.... all that fabric would just have to sit on the shelf in
the local LQS/Hancocks/Joanns/Walmart, etc and never be used because it
couldn't be cut and sewn. NOT!!

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"Phyllis Nilsson" wrote in message
...
I've learned it, just don't understand it (but since I haven't understood
it for the previous 55 years, it doesn't seem likely I ever will,
unfortunately).

Wish someone could answer my questions though. And what about a
seamstress who makes clothes for others? Can they not buy a fabric to use
and sell the end product without a written permission slip from the
designer or manufacturer? Just how far does a copyright go in protecting
a design? And what about garment knockoffs that put a shoulder strap
where there wasn't one or some other such change and then sell them in
stores for thousands of dollar less as is done all the time? Oh well,
guess I'd have to read the whole darn copyright law to get the answer, and
I don't think that's going to happen.

Mini One wrote:
As for radio, planes, etc, try he http://www.howstuffworks.com/


Emilia Phyllis Nilsson wrote in
:
I've been reading this thread with great interest, but your question
is profound.

Since the patterns on fabrics are designed and then copyrighted, how
could any of us make anything for sale anywhere ever? I have to
admit, I've made many things for sale over the years and never even
thought about not being able to use a fabric because I never knew
fabrics could carry a copyright, and even if I "had" known, I know I
would have thought it was that I couldn't reproduce the fabric, not
that I couldn't make something with it and sell it.

If their permission is needed, does that mean we have to write to the
company everytime we want to use a different fabric? How would we
know who has the copyright, the designer or the fabric company? What
about garage sales where the fabric pieces no longer have selvage
edges so we wouldn't know which company even produced it? What about
older fabrics where the company can't be found (or may be out of
business) and the designer's name isn't listed?

I can understand a copyright not allowing someone to copy the
instructions or even copy the fabric and sell them, but it just never
occurred to me you could buy fabric and not be able to make something out
of it that you could sell. Of course, I still don't understand
how radios work, airplanes stay aloft, or battle ships don't sink
either.

Calico wrote:

This may be a weird slant on this topic but the fabric designs/prints
themselves are copyrighted, right? So how does that figure into the
whole equation?


Linda in PA... who often thinks of weird stuff


"Julia in MN" wrote in
message ...


My pet peeve along these lines: people who would never think of
stealing a pattern from the store shelves, but who do not think
anything of asking to photocopy the copy that someone else purchased.

As I understand it, one would find it quite difficult to copyright a
quilt block; even though I may design a block that I haven't seen
before, the chances are the someone else has also created the same
block. For example, IMO there is no way that Quilt-In-A-Day can have
a copyright on a log cabin or Irish chain block; they could never
prove any copyright infringement on any quilt you make from those
very common, traditional blocks. However, the instructions in the
Quilt-In-A-Day books are copyrighted; you should not be copying the
instructions to pass along to others. When a block design or quilt
design gets more innovative and unusual, the situation gets a bit
muddier, and it gets more difficult to claim that it is only the
pattern instructions that can be copyright.
Julia in MN
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This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Anti-Virus

http://webpages.charter.net/jaccola/

In article ,
Phyllis Nilsson wrote:

I've learned it, just don't understand it (but since I haven't
understood it for the previous 55 years, it doesn't seem likely I ever
will, unfortunately).

Wish someone could answer my questions though. And what about a
seamstress who makes clothes for others? Can they not buy a fabric to
use and sell the end product without a written permission slip from the
designer or manufacturer? Just how far does a copyright go in
protecting a design? And what about garment knockoffs that put a
shoulder strap where there wasn't one or some other such change and then
sell them in stores for thousands of dollar less as is done all the
time? Oh well, guess I'd have to read the whole darn copyright law to
get the answer, and I don't think that's going to happen.


I used to sew for people. I started by doing hand work for a seamstress
who hated hand sewing. She required that the customer purchase the
pattern for each dress. In other words, you're making 7 ugly taffeta
bridesmaids dresses so the customer buy 7 patterns. The customer bought
the pattern and the fabric. We weren't selling either, the fabric store
was. We were selling the work we were doing to make it into a finished
product. Different than making a shirt and sewing it to someone who
pays for it all to you. Am I being clear?

Changing a strap does not make it a new design. Changing 10% or some
other random percent does not make it a new design. All are derivitive.
I frankly don't know how knockoffs manage except perhaps maybe designers
don't bother to pursue the issue. We didn't do knockoffs, so I honestly
have no idea.

People have been arguing the nuances of copyright law forever and I
suspect they will continue to do so particularly as technology changes.
I do like Sylvia Landman's site which is directed to copyright as it
applies to the sewing and craft world.

http://sylvias-studio.com/ choose "copyright basics" on the right side
of the page.

marcella

Phyllis, If you are in business and need this information,
perhaps you should just hire an attorney. I think that no one is
answering your specific questions because either no one has the
information, or perhaps if she/he is a copyright attorney, it
would be unethical to jump in and provide legal service here.
PAT in VA/USA

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:

I've learned it, just don't understand it (but since I haven't
understood it for the previous 55 years, it doesn't seem likely I ever
will, unfortunately).

Wish someone could answer my questions though. And what about a
seamstress who makes clothes for others? Can they not buy a fabric to
use and sell the end product without a written permission slip from the
designer or manufacturer? Just how far does a copyright go in
protecting a design? And what about garment knockoffs that put a
shoulder strap where there wasn't one or some other such change and then
sell them in stores for thousands of dollar less as is done all the
time? Oh well, guess I'd have to read the whole darn copyright law to
get the answer, and I don't think that's going to happen.

SNIGDIBBLY wrote:
Anything sold for public use - once "consumed" can be sold. If you buy
fabric and make a garment from it you may most certainly sell it. It is
your end product - you made it. Once you purchase it you have bought the
right to "consume" it. Another Example: You go to your local music store
and buy a cd. You listen to it until it no longer is entertaining to you.
You have a garage sale and sell the same CD. You have not infringed on the
copyright laws because you are the purchasing consumer. Now if you copy the
CD and sell it as new and original - that's a crime because you have
misrepresented the item. You can't claim that you designed the fabric and
claim the name of the designer and sell it but you can claim that you
designed the outfit made from the copyright protected fabric and sell it.
Think about it.... all that fabric would just have to sit on the shelf in
the local LQS/Hancocks/Joanns/Walmart, etc and never be used because it
couldn't be cut and sewn. NOT!!


But, but, how does this match with Disney (and others) saying that we
cannot make a quilt using licenced Disney fabric and then sell that
quilt? Surely, swapping clothes for quilt does not change the copyright
status of the cloth?

Just confused too,

Hanne in London

Disney is behind the recent changes in copyright law. It seems that
Mickey was going to go into the public domain, due to the age of the
design, and Disney just couldn't bear the thought of losing all the $$
they generate with him and other old Disney designs.
Gail--not a lawyer

Hanne Gottliebsen wrote:

But, but, how does this match with Disney (and others) saying that we
cannot make a quilt using licenced Disney fabric and then sell that
quilt? Surely, swapping clothes for quilt does not change the copyright
status of the cloth?

Just confused too,

Hanne in London

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:
I've learned it, just don't understand it (but since I haven't
understood it for the previous 55 years, it doesn't seem likely I ever
will, unfortunately).

Wish someone could answer my questions though. And what about a
seamstress who makes clothes for others? Can they not buy a fabric to
use and sell the end product without a written permission slip from the
designer or manufacturer? Just how far does a copyright go in
protecting a design? And what about garment knockoffs that put a
shoulder strap where there wasn't one or some other such change and then
sell them in stores for thousands of dollar less as is done all the
time? Oh well, guess I'd have to read the whole darn copyright law to
get the answer, and I don't think that's going to happen.



I believe (could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time) It would be ok
to make something out of fabric as long as it doesn't have a copyrighted
image on it...(such as Mickey Mouse etc) Now, as far as lets say making
skirts from a McCalls pattern and selling it, I have NO idea what the
law is there - are you allowed to do that?? No clue. If you are - why
is that legal and making a quilt from a pattern that you purchased (and
then selling it) is not??

Ha! I am more confused now than when I started typing this lol

Good thing I don't sew well enough to worry about it *GRIN* No one is
gonna buy something I made regardless of who's face is on the fabric

Roberta (in VA)

Just curious, Pat. I'll never make a quilt worth selling, I'm sure. I
can understand someone who isn't an attorney having to make a disclaimer
about legal advice, I can understand an attorney not providing legal
advice in a state in which he or she is not licensed to practice, but
couldn't an attorney inform us of what the federal copyright law "says"
regarding a specific issue without breaching ethics and without giving
legal advice?

Pat in Virginia wrote:
Phyllis, If you are in business and need this information, perhaps you
should just hire an attorney. I think that no one is answering your
specific questions because either no one has the information, or perhaps
if she/he is a copyright attorney, it would be unethical to jump in and
provide legal service here.
PAT in VA/USA

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:

I've learned it, just don't understand it (but since I haven't
understood it for the previous 55 years, it doesn't seem likely I ever
will, unfortunately).

Wish someone could answer my questions though. And what about a
seamstress who makes clothes for others? Can they not buy a fabric to
use and sell the end product without a written permission slip from
the designer or manufacturer? Just how far does a copyright go in
protecting a design? And what about garment knockoffs that put a
shoulder strap where there wasn't one or some other such change and
then sell them in stores for thousands of dollar less as is done all
the time? Oh well, guess I'd have to read the whole darn copyright
law to get the answer, and I don't think that's going to happen.

The swap is a deal!

Tricia
====
http://photos.yahoo.com/chirparrooo

Diana -- thanks!