Copyright and stealing (ON topic)

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:54:14 GMT, "Kathy Applebaum"
wrote:


"Listpig" wrote in message
...
And in the policy of Complete Disclosure, a quote swiped from Danny Kaye
in
The Court Jester grinnin and duckin


We are very fond of the chalice from the palace and the flagon with the
dragon...

I just watched that movie again the other night. IIRC a variation of
the chalice from the palace is also in the movie A Funny Thing
Happened On The Way To The Forum.
Debra in VA
See my quilts at
http://community.webshots.com/user/debplayshere

I don't get registration materials, because I am an employee. See,
there are just a couple of drawbacks to all this PREshow fun! LOL

Hugs,
Tina

While we're celebrating, let's sing her favorite ditty. "I'm bringing home
a baby bumble bee". (There's just no accounting for her repetoire.) And uh
one, and uh two . . Polly

There is no copyright protection at Quilt fairs/festivals. Look at the
admission forms. If a quilt is submitted for show there is a copyright
disclaimer. Also once the picture has been sold to a magazine or paper they
have purchased the right to show the photos to the public. I have several
attorney friends who have explained this very carefully to me. Copyright
protection is a financial term - you can't sell the photos unless they were
taken by you. Tina took the photos and they were hers to use as she
wished - she didn't STEAL anything because she received no monetary
renumeration. If the quilts were protected by law they would never have
allowed cameras into the showing. The presenter has already given
permission for the quilts to be viewed and photographed so many times before
Tina ever laid a camera lens on them. What you are doing is redundant and
totally unnecessary as required by law but if it makes you feel better then
go for it. Just don't sit in judgement when others don't do what you do.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Kathy Applebaum" wrote in message
om...
I've been rather bothered over the last few days by the posts indirectly
addressing copyright issues here. This is a subject that's been hashed
over many times before, and not a lot that's new is ever added to this
debate. Still, I feel I need to vent.

I've seen several posts advocating the position that it's okay to use
copyrighted images or patterns without permission because the designer
"should" share with everyone. What I don't get is why permission isn't
asked. It's really not that hard to write a simple email. I've asked for
permission numerous times, and only been turned down once. (That one time
was funny in retrospect, because the design was not particularly
original.) Most designers I've talked to are incredibly generous and very
flattered that someone would ask. That's the important part: asking.

If my neighbor wanted to use my lawn mower, I'd let her borrow it in a
heartbeat. But I'd be mighty ticked if I found she had gone into my garage
and used it without asking first, as would most of you. Our very own Dr.
Quilter is upset because someone went into her house without asking, and
rightly so. Many of you know that I'm always happy to spend time answering
questions about quilting and longarming. I'm glad to share what I've spent
many hours learning because I'm grateful that others were willing to share
with me. But I've also had aspiring longarmers call up, posing as
potential customers, and try to take my knowledge on the sly. Believe me,
that's a VERY unpleasant feeling, especially when I would have been
willing to help them out if they'd been honest.

Yes, there are times when it's not easy to ask for permission. But there's
a real human being on the other side of the equation, who has real
feelings, and could feel hurt if someone takes something without
permission just because it's inconvenient to ask. Doing the right thing
isn't always convenient, but it's still important.

Okay, I'm off the soapbox now. You can safely read the newsgroup again.
--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply

Thanks Kathy, your envelopes came yesterday. This will be put to good use!
Barbara in SC
"Kathy Applebaum" wrote in message
om...
I've been rather bothered over the last few days by the posts indirectly
addressing copyright issues here. This is a subject that's been hashed
over many times before, and not a lot that's new is ever added to this
debate. Still, I feel I need to vent.

I've seen several posts advocating the position that it's okay to use
copyrighted images or patterns without permission because the designer
"should" share with everyone. What I don't get is why permission isn't
asked. It's really not that hard to write a simple email. I've asked for
permission numerous times, and only been turned down once. (That one time
was funny in retrospect, because the design was not particularly
original.) Most designers I've talked to are incredibly generous and very
flattered that someone would ask. That's the important part: asking.

If my neighbor wanted to use my lawn mower, I'd let her borrow it in a
heartbeat. But I'd be mighty ticked if I found she had gone into my garage
and used it without asking first, as would most of you. Our very own Dr.
Quilter is upset because someone went into her house without asking, and
rightly so. Many of you know that I'm always happy to spend time answering
questions about quilting and longarming. I'm glad to share what I've spent
many hours learning because I'm grateful that others were willing to share
with me. But I've also had aspiring longarmers call up, posing as
potential customers, and try to take my knowledge on the sly. Believe me,
that's a VERY unpleasant feeling, especially when I would have been
willing to help them out if they'd been honest.

Yes, there are times when it's not easy to ask for permission. But there's
a real human being on the other side of the equation, who has real
feelings, and could feel hurt if someone takes something without
permission just because it's inconvenient to ask. Doing the right thing
isn't always convenient, but it's still important.

Okay, I'm off the soapbox now. You can safely read the newsgroup again.
--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply

This may be a weird slant on this topic but the fabric designs/prints
themselves are copyrighted, right? So how does that figure into the whole
equation?


Linda in PA... who often thinks of weird stuff


"Julia in MN" wrote in message
...
My pet peeve along these lines: people who would never think of stealing a
pattern from the store shelves, but who do not think anything of asking to
photocopy the copy that someone else purchased.

As I understand it, one would find it quite difficult to copyright a quilt
block; even though I may design a block that I haven't seen before, the
chances are the someone else has also created the same block. For example,
IMO there is no way that Quilt-In-A-Day can have a copyright on a log
cabin or Irish chain block; they could never prove any copyright
infringement on any quilt you make from those very common, traditional
blocks. However, the instructions in the Quilt-In-A-Day books are
copyrighted; you should not be copying the instructions to pass along to
others. When a block design or quilt design gets more innovative and
unusual, the situation gets a bit muddier, and it gets more difficult to
claim that it is only the pattern instructions that can be copyright.

Julia in MN
--
This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Anti-Virus

http://webpages.charter.net/jaccola/

"Calico" wrote in message
news:bar7f.12352$c4.11765@trndny03...
This may be a weird slant on this topic but the fabric designs/prints
themselves are copyrighted, right? So how does that figure into the whole
equation?

Some manufacturers have already given permission, some have not. One common
example is NFL and Disney fabric -- you are only authorized to make
something for your own use, and not authorized to make something to exhibit
or sell. So a few years back, when I bought a bunch of Pittsburgh Steelers
fabric to make a quilt for a good friend, there was no problem because it
was a gift. If I had sold it to him, that would have been (to me, anyway) a
very dark grey area. And if I made several to sell on eBay, I would have
most assuredly crossed the line.

Again, if in any doubt, the best thing is to ask copyright holder.

--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply

I'll say!
19mm charmeuse...mmmmmmm

I admit it, I am a total silk junkie!

Darn near any silk from gauzes to raw to pongee to charmeuse, I am
addicted!

It helps that when I go into TSWLTH and get a look at the synthetic
imitations that just don't measure up, I can also see that they cost
three times what the real thing costs.

BTW I just sat down and did the $math for DH. He was under the
impression I was buying fabric from Dharma because of its superior
quality (it is excellent). Actually it is way less expensive than
buying locally. Between 8.25% sales tax and having to pay someone to
drive me about the shipping charge is a bargin, and even the single
yard prices are a lot less than anything I can manage within 50 miles.

NightMist

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:54:14 GMT, "Kathy Applebaum"
wrote:

Same way you dye cotton. I bought the 19mm charmeuse from Dharma. Yummy!

--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply

"Tina" wrote in message
roups.com...
I'm in, if you'll teach me how to do that hand dyed silk too! LOL

Hugs,
Tina, who will even bring the truffles.........




--
"To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge
it, requires brains." -Mary Pettibone Poole

In article ySo7f.5592$%42.3967@okepread06,
"SNIGDIBBLY" wrote:

There is no copyright protection at Quilt fairs/festivals. Look at the
admission forms. If a quilt is submitted for show there is a copyright
disclaimer.

Not exactly. I have entered two national shows and both times the right
to photograph my quilts, print pictures of entered quilts in
advertisements etc. was only given to the show organizers, not to anyone
who chose to take a picture.

Also once the picture has been sold to a magazine or paper they
have purchased the right to show the photos to the public.

The magazine has, yes. But generally only for a specified period of
time; unless you're talking Fons and Porter who buy everything forever
it seems.

Just because the show or magazine has rights is doesn't extend those
rights to others who purchase or borrow the magazine or book.

Cameras are allowed in shows for people to take pictures for their
personal use only. A show attendee is not authorized to take pictures
and then turn them into lovely photo greeting cards, puzzles, mugs,
posters or anything else to sell. An attendee may not put the photos on
public forums so that other people can print off pretty things with a
quiltmakers work on it.

Just because I bought a quilt magazine doesn't mean I can photocopy off
a quilt picture and sell it, or print off pattern instructions and teach
it as a class. There are fair use guidelines and both those overstep
the bounds.

I have several
attorney friends who have explained this very carefully to me. Copyright
protection is a financial term - you can't sell the photos unless they were
taken by you. Tina took the photos and they were hers to use as she
wished - she didn't STEAL anything because she received no monetary
renumeration.

A common misconception. You don't have to make money off something to
violate copyright.

You do, however have to follow the rules of the show and the rules for
Houston are clearly posted at the show and are on the website

http://www.quilts.com/fqf05/faqtravelsafe.pdf

Scroll down and they are clearly in the box on the right side of the
page titled "Photography Rules"

If the quilts were protected by law they would never have allowed
cameras into the showing.

Wrong. The shows rules clearly state "Photography at Festival is
neither a right or an entitlement - it is a privilege." The people who
run festival - and those who run many shows - allow photography for
personal use but if too many quilters disregard copyright, it wouldn't
surprise me to begin to see photography banned at shows.

There is a very nice question and answer section on copyright on Sylvia
Landman's website. You might want to read it.

http://sylvias-studio.com/copyright_...s_crafters.htm

marcella

To expand on Kathy's note: Very often, manufacturers who have
that restriction will include the message on the selvage.
Something on the order of "Personal Use Only; Do Not Sell Products."
PAT in overcast Virginia

Kathy Applebaum wrote:

"Calico" wrote in message
news:bar7f.12352$c4.11765@trndny03...

This may be a weird slant on this topic but the fabric designs/prints
themselves are copyrighted, right? So how does that figure into the whole
equation?


Some manufacturers have already given permission, some have not. One common
example is NFL and Disney fabric -- you are only authorized to make
something for your own use, and not authorized to make something to exhibit
or sell. So a few years back, when I bought a bunch of Pittsburgh Steelers
fabric to make a quilt for a good friend, there was no problem because it
was a gift. If I had sold it to him, that would have been (to me, anyway) a
very dark grey area. And if I made several to sell on eBay, I would have
most assuredly crossed the line.

Again, if in any doubt, the best thing is to ask copyright holder.