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  #21  
Old January 3rd 04, 05:32 AM
Jenn Liace
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 03:58:35 GMT, Brenda Lewis
wrote:

Having a planned stitch night or such can pay off, but a
general expansion of hours often does not.


Agreed, but maybe a more frequent shifting of hours is something that
they should at least give serious consideration to. I have one LNS
that is a few blocks away from a nearby train station and is open
until 6 pm one night a week. If I can get out of my office a bit
before 5:00 and catch the 5:30 express, I can get to that store before
closing time on that day, then get back on the next train to finish my
ride home. That's a big if. And this same store is only open until
4:00 on Saturdays. It's possible that they have a monthly open stitch
night that i'm not aware of (as they stil have not been able to get me
on their newsletter mailing list after 6 months...). If they were to
stay open later, even if only till 7 pm that one night, I could shop
there more often. Imagine how much more business they could pick up
by staying open until 8... or until 7 two or three nights a week....


Jenn L.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jaliace
http://sewu9corn.blogspot.com
Current projects:
Simply Sensational January Calendar (Mill Hill)
Lady of the Flag (Mirabilia)
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  #22  
Old January 3rd 04, 03:15 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
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Brenda, you said this so well. If you live in an urban area, you just
have no clue what is going on in the 75% of the U.S. that is NOT urban.
Many of these towns have been "broken" since the 1970's, and despair
has set in so strongly that hope is about lost to these people. They
have turned inward with a strange sort of clinging to the past that will
never be, but too broke to claw their way out.

Some of these towns did this to themselves (the one I'm living in), but
most had outside forces that stripped them. The loss of manufacturing
(large and small) and the change in social mores has devestated rural
America. Thanks for an interesting read.
Dianne

Brenda Lewis wrote:

Very few old-fashioned downtown merchants can afford to run businesses
in the way modern shoppers desire. Mind you, I'm basing this on my old
hometown which has a population of about 2500.

Small specialty stores were operated by the owner and maybe one or two
assistants. The assistants were often family members. Most buildings
were built from 1890-1925 and the majority have housed several types of
shops over the years. The family lived in an apartment over the shop
and crammed their car (if they had one) in the alley behind the shop.
The grocery store and bank had parking lots in addition to what was
available along the street. Otherwise there were only two or three
parking spots available per store on average. The parking issue limited
how many customers a shop could have and how many unrelated employees it
could have unless the owner played chauffeur or made deliveries or
encouraged alternate transportation such as bicycles (no taxis or public
transit in towns this size). While my hometown did not have parking
meters, many surrounding communities did. Friendly neighbors would pick
up a few things for the ill or elderly if the store didn't offer
deliveries.

Shoppers walked to the post office and grocery store daily (except
Sundays and holidays). No one had a 26 cu. ft. refrigerator in the
kitchen, a mammoth deep freeze in the basement, and a "snack"
refrigerator in the garage. People actually cooked meals and ate
together as a family instead of individually popping things in a
microwave at each person's convenience. Several generations of a family
lived in the same town and they knew the store owners (and vice versa).
While strolling to get the mail and the day's food shoppers would pick
up anything else needed at the other stores. No one would think of
buying fresh milk at a variety store or a pair of shoes or a hammer at
the grocery store although such things might happen in much smaller or
very remote communities that had only one or two stores.

Along come the big chain stores. They buy vast tracts of property along
major roads between "work" towns and "bedroom" towns but are close
enough to both to be convenient to all who can drive or find
transportation. They have 300+ parking spots. The buildings are new
and built to their specifications with tons of storage space--assuming
you don't mind shopping in a place that looks like a warehouse. They
are open (in some regions anyway) 24/7 except for maybe a few hours off
on certain holidays. They own their own distribution facilities, truck
lines, and even some production facilities. When they do buy products
from other companies, they order massive quantities at deep discounts to
supply an entire region of the state or country. They have tons of
employees who are often treated as faceless slaves and they have little
pride in the job they perform. It is the customer's job to walk around
and find whatever item they want. After all, the night stockers put the
items on the labeled shelves. It isn't any employee's fault that other
shoppers pick up items from one place and discard them in another. Some
took the miserable job just for the employee discount.

Downtown merchants are not making up excuses. Owners have tried to hang
on as long as possible to serve loyal customers. A one- or two-person
shop cannot be open 24/7. You also cannot afford to keep the shop open
three or four extra hours per day on the off chance someone might come
in and buy one skein of floss (or birthday card, a couple of nails...).
Chances are that person will complain about paying 60 cents for it when
they could get it for 25 cents five miles down the road at the chain
store. Having a planned stitch night or such can pay off, but a general
expansion of hours often does not. Some old downtowns have one night a
week that all stores are open and parking is free to encourage
business. Downtown associations often sponsor holiday walks and design
gift certificates that can be used at any downtown store. In some
places these gimmicks do work. That is, if anyone sees the ads. More
people get news on tv or online or read only large-city or national
newspapers instead of reading the local weekly newspaper. While the
stores might benefit from advertising in a county-wide paper, they
certainly can't justify ads in the Wall Street Journal or USA Today even
if that is what the locals read.

Buildings were not required to meet ADA standards a century ago and
there simply isn't enough floor or sidewalk space available to install a
properly-graded entry ramp. No matter how much you care for those who
are not blessed with full mobility, if you have only two parking spots
on the curb in front of your building, you weep when the government
requires one to be reserved for the handicapped or the city takes one
away to make a wide curb cut. As the stores around you close, vandalism
goes up which means your insurance goes up. Or the other stores close
and are turned into bars which drives away many customers and makes your
location very undesirable in the evening. If you have employees who are
not a member of your family, you would rather let them get a job
somewhere else if you can no longer pay them a wage they can live on
because you care about them and their families.

But how can these stores compete with vertical integration? A jeweler
with all the equipment can design and cast original pieces or do repairs
that chain stores can't, a grocer might buy produce from local farms so
it is literally just-picked fresh, and anyone can sell trinkets with the
town name or school mascot. The owner can be on a first-name basis with
all the old regulars (and friendly to new people) and know where
everything is, how much it costs, and go above and beyond to serve the
customers. Do any of those mean enough to a frazzled mother of four who
has just put in a nine hour day plus an hour commute each way when she
has exactly 28 minutes to feed her crowd before shuttling them off to
evening activities? There is probably nothing those store owners can do
which will attract this person on a regular basis. Unfortunately,
occasional customers don't generate enough business to get the bills
paid. How about the loyal customer of ten years ago who is now retired
only to have lost their retirement money to the poor economy and the
$3,000/month for health insurance/treatment/medicine? No matter how
much this customer cares for you as a person and wants your business to
succeed, pennies must be pinched.

My old downtown was a busy place. Now the jeweler, the pharmacist, and
the owner of the variety store are dead with no one to carry on those
businesses. The florist, hardware store, and several others didn't make
it through the farm crisis of the 80's. Owners of the lumber yard and
appliance store retired. The old grocer died and, after running the
business for several years, his son sold the store to the grocer from
the next town over. A doctor's office came and went. There have also
been legal, insurance and tax businesses over the years. Some buildings
have decayed beyond use. The old soda fountain is still there but is
only open semi-occasionally since the owner's children are scattered
across the country and they like to go visiting. The post office, city
hall, and bank are still there. A couple of hair salons are still there
but the owners are nearing retirement; I think they keep working because
they like the gossip. There are the ubiquitous bars, eateries (always
changing ownership) and a laundromat to serve the people who now rent
the apartments above all the storefronts. Skateboarders and loiterers
hang out at night and destroy the curbs, benches, and greenspace. All
in all, it has become a dismal place. I don't see much hope for it. The
remaining buildings need major renovations to come up to code. I wish
those who are holding on all the best.

Shstringfellow wrote:

This is what I keep saying, too. The merchants downtown in our small
city are
always trying to find things to blame their poor business on, but it
basically
comes down to they are not sensitive to the needs of the modern
customer- they
are open 10:00-5:00 M,T,Th,F&S-they close at 1:00 on Wed. and are not
open any
evening hours, even at the holidays. If I work until 4:30 or 5:00, and
need
some little thing, do they think I'm going to wait until Saturday to
get it?
No, I'll run out to the nearest big box store and pick it up and more!




  #23  
Old January 3rd 04, 04:44 PM
Cheryl Isaak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 1/2/04 7:38 PM, in article , "Ellice"
wrote:

On 1/2/04 5:39 PM,"Dianne Lewandowski" posted:

Ellice wrote:
I don't think the Needlework Industry on the whole is declining that much -
it is the LNS that are hurting. The proliferation of web-shopping has done
that. Many shops are surviving by doing e-business, or something else (my
local that has most of the income from the frame shop, followed by the
needlework portion of the shop & antique needlework boutique. Designers who
sell directly to the public, retail - frequently LNS are stopping carrying
them (why pay for the inventory if you're in competition to sell with the
designer).


My dream is for shops to be more like the one in Monica Ferris' Betsy
Devonshire mystery books. All encompassing. The knitters; the lace
makers; the canvas, counted and surface embroiderers all come to Monday
Brunch, oooh and ahh at each other's work, occasionally do something new.

Isn't that just a dream shop. Having the boutique in the store is
interesting - lots of linens, brings in different shoppers.



I wonder if someone could pull this off - a cooperative set of shops set in
a "court yard" plaza/mall. A yarn shop, a needlework shop (with broad range
of areas), a quilters shop, a finisher/framer, a tea/coffee shop, maybe even
a bookshop all opening in to a courtyard area (not necessarily open to the
air) with comfortable seating. And don't forget a nice bathroom; how many
times has your enjoyment of something been affected by a gross bathroom.
They all cooperate on costs of operation for heating, lights and the ilk but
maintain separate inventory costs.

Now - the most important part - a willingness to say "go ask X in shop Y
about that". Maybe cross discipline classes too. Embellishing your crocheted
sweater, canvas work with Fake Fur yarns.....

It wouldn't be it a great place to shop. Just imagine.....

Cheryl

  #24  
Old January 3rd 04, 04:46 PM
Karen C - California
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Brenda Lewis
writes:

Some old downtowns have one
night a week that all stores are open and parking is free to encourage
business.


Yep. Our lunchtime downtown Farmer's Markets were so popular that someone had
the idea of offering a Thursday Night Market so those who work in what were
once suburbs could frequent the Farmer's Market. The stores along that street
were therefore open on Thursday nights, to catch the TNM crowd. Several of
them found that 80% of their week's sales were between 5 and 9 PM on Thursday.
And when TNM closed for the season, the storeowners nonetheless decided that
they would return to their previous 5 PM closing, because it was too much
trouble for them to be there that extra 4 hours a week.

Even proving to them with their own eyes that a few extra open hours made a
huge difference in their profits could not persuade them to stay open once the
TNM organizers no longer required it. They went right back to fussing that
extra hours meant extra pay for the workers and extra costs for lights and A/C.
And complaining that they were barely making a profit. And the next year
again during TNM season they did most of their business between 5 and 9 PM on
Thursday, and again, the very next week after the last TNM, they went back to
closing at 5 PM. I'm sorry, but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who sees
their profits increase dramatically and promptly stops doing what made them go
up.

If you can only afford to be open 7 hours a day, don't waste all of them on the
hours your employed customers are at work. Open at noon and close at 7 PM.
Between 10 AM and noon, I'm practically the only person in the store. After
the noon to 1:30 office worker lunch rush, I'm again practically the only
person in the store till the first of the government workers start getting out
at 4. Then the place is packed till they lock the doors at 5 ... preventing
those who work till 5 (i.e., the 2/3 who *don't* work for the government) from
buying anything there after work.

Then I come home to my neighborhood, where the stores also, for the most part,
close at 5 or 5:30, again preventing me from shopping there on weeknights. If
I need cough syrup, I'm not going to do without till Saturday ... I'm going to
go to the nearest store that's open weeknights.

100 years ago, most people were self-employed, which meant that they could hang
out a sign "back in 10 minutes" and zip into a nearby store before that store
closed. Now, most people punch a time clock, and can't do that. Store owners
need to change with the times, not complain because their customers no longer
live in the same century that their business practices were designed for.

If I can get the floss I need at WalMart today AND save a quarter on it, I'm
going to WalMart rather than waiting till Saturday to pay *twice* as much at
LNS. I need it now, not four days from now.

I've known too many family businesses (and been part of some of them) where it
was understood that the business had to accommodate its customers' schedule. My
extended family ran several bakeries ... people want to pick up pastries for
breakfast at 6 AM, not when it was convenient for the owner to get to the store
at 11 AM.

I understand that if I won't give the customers what they want when they want
it, they'll take their business to someone else who will. In my case, I'm not
losing sales to WalMart, or to any other major corporation -- I'm losing sales
to another one-person business. And once the client has found there's someone
who'll move heaven and earth for them, that client generally doesn't come back.
I try to be that person, even if it's inconvenient for me.

If 80% of your clientele wants you to keep your store open till 6 or 6:30 so
they can shop after work, you can just learn to eat dinner at 7:30. Or you can
guarantee yourself that that 80% of your clientele is going to start going to
the store that's open when they want to shop. It doesn't necessarily have to
be WalMart, it could be the small store the next town over whose owner is
willing to put his customers' needs ahead of his own.



--
Finished 12/14/03 -- Mermaid (Dimensions)
WIP: Angel of Autumn, Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, Guide the Hands (2d
one)

Paralegal - Writer - Editor - Researcher
http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/KMC.html
  #25  
Old January 3rd 04, 05:01 PM
Gillian Murray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We had something that was a little bit like this here. In the corner of the
L of the shopping center was a small courtyard/portico with little shops,
and plants. It was composed of my cross-stitch shop which is also a frameing
shop; then there was the tailoress, who did alterations; a travel agent; a
silk flower shop; a hairdresser and just around the corner the Health Food
shop, which had some tables in it, so you could sit and have something to
eat.

Well, last fall Amanda heard a horrid cracking sound in the roof of the LNS,
and cracks appeared along the walls. After a lot of surveying work, it was
found that all the structural support for the roof are had rotted clear
through. Therefore, the entire area has to be razed. The LNS is moving next
to Radio Shack, in the same shopping center, but the rest has gone. I was in
there yesterday, and it is the only shop which is left open. They will move
around the end of the month. I have offered to be a pair of hands in this
great moving project of about 100 yards!

Gillian
Florida
"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
" I wonder if someone could pull this off - a cooperative set of shops set
in
a "court yard" plaza/mall. A yarn shop, a needlework shop (with broad

range
of areas), a quilters shop, a finisher/framer, a tea/coffee shop, maybe

even
a bookshop all opening in to a courtyard area (not necessarily open to the
air) with comfortable seating. And don't forget a nice bathroom; how many
times has your enjoyment of something been affected by a gross bathroom.
They all cooperate on costs of operation for heating, lights and the ilk

but
maintain separate inventory costs.

Now - the most important part - a willingness to say "go ask X in shop Y
about that". Maybe cross discipline classes too. Embellishing your

crocheted
sweater, canvas work with Fake Fur yarns.....

It wouldn't be it a great place to shop. Just imagine.....

Cheryl



  #26  
Old January 3rd 04, 06:35 PM
Meredith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm in the greater Boston area and most of the local LNSs are open late
one night a week. One closes from 5-7 for dinner, then reopens from 7-9.

Meredith

Karen C - California wrote:
In article , Brenda Lewis
writes:


Some old downtowns have one
night a week that all stores are open and parking is free to encourage
business.



Yep. Our lunchtime downtown Farmer's Markets were so popular that someone had
the idea of offering a Thursday Night Market so those who work in what were
once suburbs could frequent the Farmer's Market. The stores along that street
were therefore open on Thursday nights, to catch the TNM crowd. Several of
them found that 80% of their week's sales were between 5 and 9 PM on Thursday.
And when TNM closed for the season, the storeowners nonetheless decided that
they would return to their previous 5 PM closing, because it was too much
trouble for them to be there that extra 4 hours a week.

Even proving to them with their own eyes that a few extra open hours made a
huge difference in their profits could not persuade them to stay open once the
TNM organizers no longer required it. They went right back to fussing that
extra hours meant extra pay for the workers and extra costs for lights and A/C.
And complaining that they were barely making a profit. And the next year
again during TNM season they did most of their business between 5 and 9 PM on
Thursday, and again, the very next week after the last TNM, they went back to
closing at 5 PM. I'm sorry, but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who sees
their profits increase dramatically and promptly stops doing what made them go
up.

If you can only afford to be open 7 hours a day, don't waste all of them on the
hours your employed customers are at work. Open at noon and close at 7 PM.
Between 10 AM and noon, I'm practically the only person in the store. After
the noon to 1:30 office worker lunch rush, I'm again practically the only
person in the store till the first of the government workers start getting out
at 4. Then the place is packed till they lock the doors at 5 ... preventing
those who work till 5 (i.e., the 2/3 who *don't* work for the government) from
buying anything there after work.

Then I come home to my neighborhood, where the stores also, for the most part,
close at 5 or 5:30, again preventing me from shopping there on weeknights. If
I need cough syrup, I'm not going to do without till Saturday ... I'm going to
go to the nearest store that's open weeknights.

100 years ago, most people were self-employed, which meant that they could hang
out a sign "back in 10 minutes" and zip into a nearby store before that store
closed. Now, most people punch a time clock, and can't do that. Store owners
need to change with the times, not complain because their customers no longer
live in the same century that their business practices were designed for.

If I can get the floss I need at WalMart today AND save a quarter on it, I'm
going to WalMart rather than waiting till Saturday to pay *twice* as much at
LNS. I need it now, not four days from now.

I've known too many family businesses (and been part of some of them) where it
was understood that the business had to accommodate its customers' schedule. My
extended family ran several bakeries ... people want to pick up pastries for
breakfast at 6 AM, not when it was convenient for the owner to get to the store
at 11 AM.

I understand that if I won't give the customers what they want when they want
it, they'll take their business to someone else who will. In my case, I'm not
losing sales to WalMart, or to any other major corporation -- I'm losing sales
to another one-person business. And once the client has found there's someone
who'll move heaven and earth for them, that client generally doesn't come back.
I try to be that person, even if it's inconvenient for me.

If 80% of your clientele wants you to keep your store open till 6 or 6:30 so
they can shop after work, you can just learn to eat dinner at 7:30. Or you can
guarantee yourself that that 80% of your clientele is going to start going to
the store that's open when they want to shop. It doesn't necessarily have to
be WalMart, it could be the small store the next town over whose owner is
willing to put his customers' needs ahead of his own.




  #27  
Old January 3rd 04, 07:23 PM
FKBABB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I wonder if someone could pull this off - a cooperative set of shops set in
a "court yard" plaza/mall. A yarn shop, a needlework shop (with broad range
of areas), a quilters shop, a finisher/framer, a tea/coffee shop, maybe even
a bookshop all opening in to a courtyard area (not necessarily open to the
air) with comfortable seating. BRBR

I've been thinking about this, too. I'd add boutiques for weavers and rug
hookers and a sewing store with high quality fabrics, plus a chocolate shop and
a gallery area for changing exhibits (and sale) of works by local fiber artists
(to bring in, and perhaps convert, folks who are not needleworkers). I'd use
the courtyard not just for seating, but for demonstrations of techniques and
classes. The bookstore would be important to give non-stitching spouses
something to do and maybe one or two other shops selling stuff with cross over
appeal, such as a hobby shop with models and miniature furniture and an
electronics boutique emphasizing soft and hardware for stitchers. All the
shops could pool their resources (and save some overhead) to do a joint
newsletter, advertising, and a website. Make it a real destination place that
would pull not only from a wide local area but be a must see for tourists, too.

Annie

  #28  
Old January 3rd 04, 08:22 PM
KDLark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

100 years ago, most people were self-employed, which meant that they could
hang
out a sign "back in 10 minutes" and zip into a nearby store before that store
closed.


Last week my daughter and I paid a visit to what would be her LNS if she wasn't
flinging her money around on silly things. We go together maybe two or three
times a year -- near Christmas and birthdays, mostly. The employee running the
story had apparently seen us there before, and we chatted as we looked at
over-dyed floss. Later, she asked us if we were going to be there for a few
more minutes. Of course we said "yes" -- we can spend hours there! She then
asked us if we'd "keep an eye on things" so she could run next door for change!
She was hardly out the door when Jo turned to me and said "Quick, Mom, grab
all the charts and floss you can carry and let's make a run for it!" !

Of course, we didn't. But it was a teeny bit tempting.

Katrina L.
  #30  
Old January 3rd 04, 09:44 PM
Dianne Lewandowski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This requires a group of people with a single minded position that "This
Will Work!" and a cooperation not always there, but can be with the
right leader.

Where I lived in Illinois, I put together a "partnership" and
hand-picked who I would work with in each area: government, chamber of
commerce, public sector. It worked! Money poured in, government gave,
chamber of commerce came to terms with what needed to be done, things
moved in the right direction . . . public volunteered labor - even a
judge. When I left 5 years later it fell apart. Not because I left
(someone in charge was just as competent), but because the government
changed hands, the businesses began grousing again, the public wasn't
kept informed. Rivalry ensued. Jealousy, backpiting, petty grievances.

It's tough to keep it going, but it CAN be done. I love this disucssion
and the thoughts of a successful "Dream Shop". It makes perfect sense,
to me. Everything everyone's described.

Dianne



FKBABB wrote:
I wonder if someone could pull this off - a cooperative set of shops set in
a "court yard" plaza/mall. A yarn shop, a needlework shop (with broad range
of areas), a quilters shop, a finisher/framer, a tea/coffee shop, maybe even
a bookshop all opening in to a courtyard area (not necessarily open to the
air) with comfortable seating. BRBR

I've been thinking about this, too. I'd add boutiques for weavers and rug
hookers and a sewing store with high quality fabrics, plus a chocolate shop and
a gallery area for changing exhibits (and sale) of works by local fiber artists
(to bring in, and perhaps convert, folks who are not needleworkers). I'd use
the courtyard not just for seating, but for demonstrations of techniques and
classes. The bookstore would be important to give non-stitching spouses
something to do and maybe one or two other shops selling stuff with cross over
appeal, such as a hobby shop with models and miniature furniture and an
electronics boutique emphasizing soft and hardware for stitchers. All the
shops could pool their resources (and save some overhead) to do a joint
newsletter, advertising, and a website. Make it a real destination place that
would pull not only from a wide local area but be a must see for tourists, too.

Annie


 




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