Need help/tips learning Free-Motion Quilting

"Pat S" wrote in message
s.com...
But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top.

First, even though you're using the auto tension setting, make sure the
tension is okay by doing a few inches of stitches just using the hand wheel
or your needle up-down. This will make sure that your machine is liking the
setup, that you've installed the foot properly, have engaged the tension
lever, etc.

Usually when beginners break lots of needles (and have tension problems),
it's because the motion of the fabric is too much for the motion of the
needle. The easy way to solve this is to sew faster. I know, you think as a
beginner you should sew slower, but that's actually more difficult with free
motion. Try getting about 10-12 spi, and sewing like a maniac, and see if
that helps a bit.

You could also try a heavier needle. A #90 seems to do well, and some people
report good luck with a Denim needle.

Hope that helps!

--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
longarm machine quilting, Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply

Checked the owner's manual (when all else fails, read the book!!)
for darning, and it actually tells you to use the buttonhole foot!!

I'm guessing that your Brother has an automatic darning stitch similar to my
Janome -- I think most embroidery machines do. Very different from the free
motion type of darning we're used to on the mechanical machines.

I've had good luck stippling on three different machines here and the biggest
"trick" is practice. Like someone else mentioned, you have to guide the fabric
rather than push or pull it. Keep the machine moving rather quickly and just
gently slide the sandwich around. It also sounds like your top tension could
be too tight. On my embroidery machine I have to take it off the "automatic"
setting and use a looser setting.


Debbie in MN
http://hometown.aol.com/dmoscarson/m...xtilearts.html

Isnt it Slow Hands, Fast Needle? As in.. move the fabric slowly and
steadily, and have the needle going like the proverbial bat our of h*ll. A
medium speed bat, one with indigestion or something.
Im having success with my machine set to the *slow* speed, but going as
fast as that allows.
Diana

"Kathy Applebaum" wrote in message
. com...

"Pat S" wrote in message
s.com...
But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the
top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's
being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top.

First, even though you're using the auto tension setting, make sure the
tension is okay by doing a few inches of stitches just using the hand
wheel
or your needle up-down. This will make sure that your machine is liking
the
setup, that you've installed the foot properly, have engaged the tension
lever, etc.

Usually when beginners break lots of needles (and have tension problems),
it's because the motion of the fabric is too much for the motion of the
needle. The easy way to solve this is to sew faster. I know, you think as
a
beginner you should sew slower, but that's actually more difficult with
free
motion. Try getting about 10-12 spi, and sewing like a maniac, and see if
that helps a bit.

You could also try a heavier needle. A #90 seems to do well, and some
people
report good luck with a Denim needle.

Hope that helps!

--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
longarm machine quilting, Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004

First of all, Pat, none of us would ever laugh at the machine troubles
another is having, most of us at one point or another have gone through the
"if you just hold your mouth in the right position and arch your left
eyebrow at 15 degrees skyward, this will work" phase of machine work.

It sounds to me like you are doing everything right as far as the usual
variables are concerned, bobbin thread to the front, feed dogs down, presser
foot lowered. What type of thread are you using? My older model Bernina
has a real aversion to the nylon "invisible" thread, and it doesn't care
which brand it is. The timing has to be absolutely perfect, or it will do
much what you are describing. It will sew very nicely with the nylon when
the machine is in total control (ie, not free motion), but then go berserk
if I try to free motion. Got to the point where I simply no long use the
nylon thread. If you are using a regular cotton thread, I might still guess
a timing problem could be the cause.

I don't think your problem is how fast you are moving your hands, unless
they are totally out of control. Fast hands with a slow machine speed
shouldn't cause the assorted problems you are describing, it should simply
make the stitches VERY long, which will impart a very herky jerky kind of
look to your stitching. Fast hands might cause the needle breakage, if you
are moving the sandwich while the needle is still down in the quilt. But
you are describing a series of events that always precedes the needle
breakage, the thread tightening, etc. This is something your machine is
doing, not your hands!

My advice to people just starting free motion is to start off very slowly,
doing it almost literally one stitch at a time for a while until you learn
the rhythm of timing your hands to the up and down motion of the needle.
the motion is not really a smooth, continous action if you observe it very
closely, although it almost seems to be when you are going fast.
Going slowly at first will also give you a chance to fell totally in
control. Ultimately for stippling, yes, you will probably want to run the
machine fairly fast, because stippling needs short stitches to give smooth
curves, (I like so-called "micro stippling" ala Diane Gaudynski, so I go
very fast for very tiny stitches), and the easiest way to get short stitches
is to go fast. If you try to run the machine slow to make short stitches,
you will have to move your hands soooooo slowly, that you will die before
you finish (of boredom!).

So, I don't think it is you, I think it is the machine. Two options here.
Find someone in your area who does free motion, and get her/him to test
drive your machine, and if they get it to work flawlessely, observe thier
technique very carefully.Or take the machine into the shop, and ask them to
show you how to get it to work doing free motion. If you have a VERY GOOD
technician at the shop, you will be able to describe the problem, and he/she
will say, "Oh yes, that is a problem with the ------" we can fix it." If
you have an average tech, he/she will say, "Oh, you are probably just moving
your hands too fast" I had a tech at a very good Bernina shop tell me
that. If they do tell you that, then smile sweetly and ask them to show you
how they would get it to actually do free motion. Because believe me, it's
very unlikely that the problem is your hands going too fast, it's much more
likely some adjustment in your machine. And a word of warning, once they
have "fixed" the problem, make sure you test drive the machine before you
leave the shop, if that is an option, a reputable shop will have no
objectons to this. There is nothing worse than getting the machine home
only to discover that they didn't fix the problem.

Good luck, once you get the machine to work, there is nothing more fun than
free motion, you will love it.

Becky



"Pat S" wrote in message
s.com...
I am an experienced sewer for 30+ years. I've been quilting for over 20,
machine piecing and usually hand-quilting. Any machine quilting I've done
is fairly straight sewing with a walking/even-feed foot. I turn
envy-green
at the free-motion work, the skill it takes.

I have an almost new Brother 8500 machine, and got the special quilting
foot, the one with the spring in it. I am using cotton thread, size 80
and
90 needles. I have allowed the machine to auto-set the tension, I've
raised
it a notch or two, and tried lowering it some. But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top. (I'm practicing on a "quilt
sandwich" - 100% cotton top and bottom, cotton batting in the middle)
I've
had so many needle breaks that I started to wonder if something was wrong
with the machine, although it's less than 3 months old. But it embroiders
fine, and I stopped all quilting attempts and pieced a quilt top - it
performed flawlessly. With straight seams and the walking foot, it
quilted
fine.

I've done all the straight and nearly straight seams on the quilt, but I
soooooo want to learn to stipple!!!

I knew this free-motion technique would take lots of practice before I'd
do
it on a "special piece" and am prepared to put in the necessary time it
takes to gain the skill. Figured I would practice on place mats and
machine
covers/appliance covers when I get some beginner-level skill. But I can't
get much practice in when all I'm doing is changing needles (and going to
the store for more!)

Any of you experienced free-motion quilters out there have any ideas for
me?
When you stop laughing at my troubles, could you post some hints/tips for
me
to try?

Thanks for all the tips I've already received through this group.

Pat S in Delaware

In article m,
"Pat S" wrote:

I have an almost new Brother 8500 machine, and got the special quilting
foot, the one with the spring in it. I am using cotton thread, size 80 and
90 needles. I have allowed the machine to auto-set the tension, I've raised
it a notch or two, and tried lowering it some. But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces......

Don't give up! I only started free-motion quilting recently and was
helped a lot by the advice I received here. Amazingly, I am improving
with practice so do keep at it. Have you had your machine serviced
lately? I ask because I was having trouble with the tension on my
Bernina (931 Record) and had loosened the bobbin tension pursuant to the
advice of Harriet Hargrave in one of her books. My technician said that
was a bad thing to do (on a Bernina) and gave the machine a good going
over including putting the bobbin tension back where it should be. Now
it works quite well. The difference was like night and day, in fact.
The thing is, free-motion quilting is demanding and your machine has to
be in top-notch shape. I also free-motion on a Janome 6500 and it works
well on that one too. Are you certain that your machine has this
capability? I recommend that you see it demonstrated on your model or a
model that is close to be certain and to save yourself the frustration.

I also use 70 or 80 needles. It is not necessary to use heavy needles
on a normal quilt. In fact, larger needles leave bigger holes
increasing the chances of bearding. This is not what is making your
needles break; no needle should be enduring that kind of stress---
regardless of size. I suspect the "timing" (for lack of a better word)
is off and it needs servicing. Also, are you certain that the feed dogs
are really dropping?

Are you placing the needles all the way up in the needle box before you
tighten them in? You probably are but I was trying to think what in the
world would cause the needle to keep catching on the fabric so that it
would bend and then break. So if the needle is not seated quite high
enough, that would cause the problem and might not be noticeable in
regular sewing. I can't imagine this being the problem since you have
been sewing so long but even a tiny machine defect could cause your
problem. If the machine is not oiled (if it requires that) the bobbin
case could be lagging too.

Another possibility, as others have mentioned, is that the fabric is
riding too high. Does your manual have any special instructions for
free-motion quilting or darning? Are you perhaps missing some special
instruction? The fabric does need to be kept flat under the presser
foot. I wear a pair of cotton gardening gloves with little plastic
"gripper" dots all over the palms, to give me the gripping power needed.
Otherwise, your hands lose their "tread" very fast and you end up
grabbing the fabric--- lifting it where it can maybe ride too high and
interfere with the needle action.

And like someone else mentioned, you must bring the bobbin thread to the
top when you start so that there is no mess on the bottom that will
screw up the bobbin tension or cause a jam. I run both my Janome and
Bernina at half speed and put the peddle to the floor. My current
biggest challenges are continuing to develop a more even stitch and
getting enough accuracy & control to do traced designs. For practice, I
have been making quilted (bed) pillow covers--- the ones with zippers,
not pillow cases. And with each one, I can see an improvement. If not,
I doubt I would continue. Please let us know your resolution when you
find it. And good luck!

Phae

..

You did, of course, lower your feed dogs, right?

This sounds like a job for your repairperson. Take your practice
piece and explain what is going on. Maybe the timing is off a bit.

Kim

"Pat S" wrote in message ws.com...
I am an experienced sewer for 30+ years. I've been quilting for over 20,
machine piecing and usually hand-quilting. Any machine quilting I've done
is fairly straight sewing with a walking/even-feed foot. I turn envy-green
at the free-motion work, the skill it takes.

I have an almost new Brother 8500 machine, and got the special quilting
foot, the one with the spring in it. I am using cotton thread, size 80 and
90 needles. I have allowed the machine to auto-set the tension, I've raised
it a notch or two, and tried lowering it some. But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top. (I'm practicing on a "quilt
sandwich" - 100% cotton top and bottom, cotton batting in the middle) I've
had so many needle breaks that I started to wonder if something was wrong
with the machine, although it's less than 3 months old. But it embroiders
fine, and I stopped all quilting attempts and pieced a quilt top - it
performed flawlessly. With straight seams and the walking foot, it quilted
fine.

I've done all the straight and nearly straight seams on the quilt, but I
soooooo want to learn to stipple!!!

I knew this free-motion technique would take lots of practice before I'd do
it on a "special piece" and am prepared to put in the necessary time it
takes to gain the skill. Figured I would practice on place mats and machine
covers/appliance covers when I get some beginner-level skill. But I can't
get much practice in when all I'm doing is changing needles (and going to
the store for more!)

Any of you experienced free-motion quilters out there have any ideas for me?
When you stop laughing at my troubles, could you post some hints/tips for me
to try?

Thanks for all the tips I've already received through this group.

Pat S in Delaware

Everyone keeps saying, "Did you lower your feed dogs!" But actually, you
don't have to lower your feed dogs to free motion, you can do it quite
nicely with the feed dogs up! Works best with the stitch length set to
zero. Gives you a bit more control (I think), over the top. There's at
least one top well known quilter who does it this way (name escapes me, of
course), she was on Simply Quilts sometime back.

Becky
"Kim E" wrote in message
om...
You did, of course, lower your feed dogs, right?

This sounds like a job for your repairperson. Take your practice
piece and explain what is going on. Maybe the timing is off a bit.

Kim

"Pat S" wrote in message
ws.com...
I am an experienced sewer for 30+ years. I've been quilting for over
20,
machine piecing and usually hand-quilting. Any machine quilting I've
done
is fairly straight sewing with a walking/even-feed foot. I turn
envy-green
at the free-motion work, the skill it takes.

I have an almost new Brother 8500 machine, and got the special quilting
foot, the one with the spring in it. I am using cotton thread, size 80
and
90 needles. I have allowed the machine to auto-set the tension, I've
raised
it a notch or two, and tried lowering it some. But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the
top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's
being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top. (I'm practicing on a
"quilt
sandwich" - 100% cotton top and bottom, cotton batting in the middle)
I've
had so many needle breaks that I started to wonder if something was
wrong
with the machine, although it's less than 3 months old. But it
embroiders
fine, and I stopped all quilting attempts and pieced a quilt top - it
performed flawlessly. With straight seams and the walking foot, it
quilted
fine.

I've done all the straight and nearly straight seams on the quilt, but I
soooooo want to learn to stipple!!!

I knew this free-motion technique would take lots of practice before I'd
do
it on a "special piece" and am prepared to put in the necessary time it
takes to gain the skill. Figured I would practice on place mats and
machine
covers/appliance covers when I get some beginner-level skill. But I
can't
get much practice in when all I'm doing is changing needles (and going
to
the store for more!)

Any of you experienced free-motion quilters out there have any ideas for
me?
When you stop laughing at my troubles, could you post some hints/tips
for me
to try?

Thanks for all the tips I've already received through this group.

Pat S in Delaware

I But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top. (I'm practicing on a "quilt
sandwich" - 100% cotton top and bottom, cotton batting in the middle)


This part is what caught my eye. I've had that happen, and it's usually
because the thread coming from my spool is caught on something. It could
possibly be caught on the little doohickey that keeps the thread from
unwinding when you're storing it, or it may be caught on one of the
projecting bits from your machine. Once the thread becomes tight enough
to show the symptoms you describe, the needle starts to bend from the
pressure and -- bang! Broken needle. See if your thread is caught
somewhere. HTH.
--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
my ISP is earthlink.net -- put sfoster1(at) in front
http://home.earthlink.net/~sfoster1

In article ,
Sandy Foster wrote:

I But I continue to break
needles. I mean, I'm breaking lots of needles here, just on practice
pieces. I rarely get more than 2-3 inches sewn before I can feel the top
thread tightening and pulling. The fabric starts to look like it's being
"gathered." Bobbin thread is showing on top. (I'm practicing on a "quilt
sandwich" - 100% cotton top and bottom, cotton batting in the middle)


This part is what caught my eye. I've had that happen, and it's usually
because the thread coming from my spool is caught on something. It could
possibly be caught on the little doohickey that keeps the thread from
unwinding when you're storing it, or it may be caught on one of the
projecting bits from your machine. Once the thread becomes tight enough
to show the symptoms you describe, the needle starts to bend from the
pressure and -- bang! Broken needle. See if your thread is caught
somewhere. HTH.


Great point! I had that happen only the other day using a spool of Dual
Duty. The thread was catching in the notch on the top of the spool. It
took me forever to figure out the problem because I almost always use
Guttermann or Mettler threads for regular sewing (and they are on tubes
not spools). Turning the spool upside down solved the problem.

Polly, I thought of you the other day and your terrible fabric. If you still
have a scrap of it, try quilting it , but use Sewer's Aid on the needle first,
and every so often.. It is a lubricant that helps the needle move through stuff
that otherwise can be a bit tricky to sew. (like the confetti dot that looks
like sequins, and rubberized curtain lining.)

Pati, in Phx

Polly Esther wrote:

I wonder if the problem could be your fabric. Recently, I tried to
free-motion a fabric that defied me. Didn't matter which SM, which needle,
which foot. It was not that I didn't know how (my stipple-ometer has several
million miles on it) or that the SM was out of order (it could do everything
else). I had to surrender and give the quilt to the Yorkie. He doesn't like
it anymore that the SM did.
Is it possible for you to take yourself and the Brother to a dealer to
resolve the problem? Maybe, a "Brother" person could tell you a trick
specific only to Brother free-motion quilting. GIve them a phone call - the
worst that could happen is they will start shouting obscenities at you and
you can hang up. We can see that you want to free-motion very badly. It
isn't really a tricky thing like making mayonnaise or parallel parking. You
can. You will. Polly