copyright selling dear jane quilt top

Hi Carol...Thanks for the clear answers ! I figured that you must have had
restrictions concerning your patterns, as I know you have a lot of hard
work
in producing them and , after all, you are in business and it isn't just
a 'little hobby' for you. Mary in VT BRBR
Hi Mary:
You are most welcome. I just wanted to make sure that the correct information
was stated. Yes, this is my carreer for 24 years now and I consider myself so
fortunate to work in an industry with quilters who in my opinion are the nicest
people!
All the best,
Carol Doak
http://quilt.com/CDoak

Thanks Carol for pointing out the difference here between 'copyright'
and 'trademark'. I would never have thought of that, and it sums the
controversy up quite neatly. Great.
..
In article , Carol Doak
writes
Hi Mary:
Since you asked the question....It states in my books that the purchaser may
reproduce the designs for personal use and not for commerical purposes.
However, over the past dozen years I have been contacted many times requesting
permission to use my designs for raffle quilts and limited sales such as craft
fairs etc. and I have always given permission for these types of commerical
uses. I only ask that the source of the design used is stated and that it is
being used with permission. Many times I have seen quild raffle quilts using my
designs where permission was not requested and I do nothing because I would
have given them permission if they had asked anyway.
The "personal use" statement protects my publisher and myself from a large
business using the designs that I created to make products that I would not
approve of or flooding the market of discount houses with large numbers of
quilts made in China using my designs.
I am sure that quilters understand that the effort and funds that a designer
and a publisher put into producing a book has to be protected by copyright laws
otherwise there would be no books produced.
However, the current discussion about the Dear Jane quilt top is not about
copyright, it is about a trademark issue. The ebay seller of the quilt used the
registered trademark "Dear Jane" and the owner of the trademark is the only one
who can use it unless she gives that right to another.
Although this issue has created quite a bit of discussion, it is important to
keep things in perspective and if in doubt, just ask.
All the best,
Carol Doak
http://quilt.com/CDoak

--
Best Regards
pat on the hill

Carol,

I think I understand what's meant by personal use and not wanting a
major manufacturer to produce thousands of your designs, but while we've
got you here, let me ask more specific questions.


Hypothetically: I buy your book. I painstakingly make a quilt using
the patterns in your book. I do a really good job. I put the quilt on
ebay calling it the "Carol Doak Paper Pieced Quilt." I've only made
one. I get a bid of $1000. Do you object? Would you ask for a
percentage? The quilt was made entirely for profit. This was not a
guild project or something to be raffled for charity.


2nd hypothetical: Using your paper piecing books as a basis, I change
the patterns around a little. I make them a bit bigger, and I erase
some lines while adding others the way you suggest. Then I set them a
little differently and put a border from one of your quilts on to a
block design from another. My color schemes are close to yours, but the
fabrics are different. Anyone who was familiar with your work would
recognize the quilt as having been inspired by your books but could see
that they're not exactly the same. Could I produce those quilts
commercially? For this hypothetical, let's say I intend to make a bunch
and sell them in as many gift shops as I can. Do you have an objection
in this case? Those who know me on this group will have no trouble
recognizing this as an absurd hypothetical. I'm not mass producing
anything, and I should be so lucky as to sell a bunch of quilts in
stores. Still, I think this is a question we're all interested in.


(Oh, and the part about buying your books is NOT hypothetical. They're
there on my shelf.)


--Lia

Hi Lia:
I would be happy to answer your questions. In the first instance, the fact the
you described the quilt as a "Carol Doak Paper Pieced Quilt." is not an issue
because I do not have any part of that description trademarked. The fact that
you are using the quilt in a commercial fashion would require that you request
permission from me and I would give you permission to do this only asking that
you identify the source of the pattern and that it is being used with
permission. However, if you did not ask for permission, and I learned of this
sale, I would either do nothing or contact you and give you permission to do
this. Btw, if you got a bit for a $1,000. for your quilt, and I learned of it,
I might send you an email and say "You go girl!".

In the second instance, copyright covers the original and any derivative. If
your quilt looks like a quilt made from my published designs then it is a
derivative. Also, in this instance, I consider the commercial use you describe
as a limited use (you aren't using a labor force and selling to hundreds of
outlets). Again, I would give you permission to do this if you asked and if you
didn't ask, I would give you permission to do this after the fact if I learned
of it requesting again that you identify the source and that the quilt is being
sold with permission.
The "used with permission" phrase protects you and makes your use legit and it
alerts others to the notion that they should ask for permission in such an
instance.
The answers that I gave you are how I would handle both situations.

Glad to hear that my books sitting on your shelf are not hypothetical....
All the best,
Carol Doak

http://quilt.com/CDoak

You are most welcome.
All the best,
Carol Doak
http://quilt.com/CDoak

Thanks for your answers. I tried to think of the most extreme cases
that are still realistic for this group. After all, none of us is going
to start manufacturing in the Third World, I don't think, but many of us
dream of selling and want to stay within fairness and the law.


Here's one more hypothetical: I sign up to take a paper piecing class
at my local quilt store. The supply list includes fabric and sewing
machine but no book. Great! I'm always short of cash and am glad that
I don't have to spend for a book. Your books aren't even for sale at
the store. When I get there, the teacher passes out handouts that are
photocopied pages from your book, and we use them for text and patterns.
Now what?


--Lia


Carol Doak wrote:

Hi Lia:
I would be happy to answer your questions. In the first instance, the fact the
you described the quilt as a "Carol Doak Paper Pieced Quilt." is not an issue
because I do not have any part of that description trademarked. The fact that
you are using the quilt in a commercial fashion would require that you request
permission from me and I would give you permission to do this only asking that
you identify the source of the pattern and that it is being used with
permission. However, if you did not ask for permission, and I learned of this
sale, I would either do nothing or contact you and give you permission to do
this. Btw, if you got a bit for a $1,000. for your quilt, and I learned of it,
I might send you an email and say "You go girl!".

In the second instance, copyright covers the original and any derivative. If
your quilt looks like a quilt made from my published designs then it is a
derivative. Also, in this instance, I consider the commercial use you describe
as a limited use (you aren't using a labor force and selling to hundreds of
outlets). Again, I would give you permission to do this if you asked and if you
didn't ask, I would give you permission to do this after the fact if I learned
of it requesting again that you identify the source and that the quilt is being
sold with permission.
The "used with permission" phrase protects you and makes your use legit and it
alerts others to the notion that they should ask for permission in such an
instance.
The answers that I gave you are how I would handle both situations.

Glad to hear that my books sitting on your shelf are not hypothetical....
All the best,
Carol Doak

http://quilt.com/CDoak

Thanks for your answers. I tried to think of the most extreme cases
that are still realistic for this group. After all, none of us is going
to start manufacturing in the Third World, I don't think, but many of us
dream of selling and want to stay within fairness and the law.


Here's one more hypothetical: I sign up to take a paper piecing class
at my local quilt store. The supply list includes fabric and sewing
machine but no book. Great! I'm always short of cash and am glad that
I don't have to spend for a book. Your books aren't even for sale at
the store. When I get there, the teacher passes out handouts that are
photocopied pages from your book, and we use them for text and patterns.
Now what?


--Lia BRBR
Hi Julia:
Houston, we have a problem. Julia, when the teacher copies and distributes
these copies, she has violated the copyright of the book and has infringed on
the exclusive rights of the publisher. When I sign a publishing agreement, I
give the publisher exclusive rights to reproduce and distribute the work. When
the teacher copies the pages of the book, she is infringing on their exclusive
rights and they have a right to address that issue with the teacher. If the
shop owner is aware of this situation and permits it, they are not only being
poor business people because they are in the busines of selling books, but they
are knowingly permitting an illegal activity in their shop.
Many years ago when I taught frequent classes a local quilt shop, there was a
large sign on the top of their copy machine that stated, "If you copy any
published material on this machine, you are fired!"
I think the shop owner took a definite stand on this issue and there was no
doubt about the fact that they would not tolerate such activity.
If I were a student in that class, morally I would feel compelled to publicly
announce that distribution of copyrighted material without permission is
illegal.
The reason publishers need this type of protection is logical because if their
product can be reproduced and distributed by others, they would not be able to
stay in the business of publishing and if they can't afford to publish then I
can't afford to create and design.
All the best,
Carol Doak
http://quilt.com/CDoak

Marissa, Donald Trump wanted to copyright the phrase "You're fired" so he
could sell shirts and things. How much is too much?

--
Sugar & Spice Quilts by Linda E
http://community.webshots.com/user/frame242

In article oBWRc.2220$73.1374@lakeread04,
Pat in Virginia wrote:

Mary: I would think that *anyone* who goes to the trouble, time,
and expense of writing a book or publishing patterns would also
consider it a business, not 'a little hobby.' Do you know people
who do this for a little hobby?
PAT, who also appreciates Carol's input on the topic

I do and it astounds me! I've met several authors who didn't read their
contracts with their publishers, I've met a designer who sold templates
for years at a loss because she never bothered to figure out the cost to
produce them...the list goes on and yes these are names you have heard
of. There is a group of people who do this for the love of it and
really don't think much about the business aspect of it. They clearly
aren't trying to pay the mortgage with their quilting work :-)

I really enjoy reading all the posts on this topic. I find the subject
very interesting and important. However, and I know I will get
harrassed for this.....Most everything that has been said is personal
opinion. A big discussion on this topic has been going on over on the
quilt designers list. Some agree with the C. Peters web site that says
making and selling a quilt from a published source is ok. Others have
posted other websites (some US government, others from other IP
attorneys) who disagree.

Someone posted an e-mail from Brenda herself from the Dear Jane list in
which Brenda stated that her decision was two fold. One to defend her
trademark in using the Dear Jane name and two that making a quilt from
her pattern and selling it violates Brendas copyright. So, part of what
Carol said agrees with Brenda and part does not.

It's a hairy issue for all of us and frankly we won't get a definitive
answer until it's tried in court, and likely several times :-) I think
the best we can do for now is give credit where credit is due, ask
permission if we desire to sell an item and there is no permission
already given on the pattern (and some patternmakers do give outright
permission) and hope that this amount of due dilligence will protect us,
in the end.

marcella

Just for the record, Carol's attitude makes me want to buy her books and
make her quilts. Brenda's makes me want to boycott anything she does.

Betty in WI


"Marcella Tracy Peek" wrote in message
...
In article oBWRc.2220$73.1374@lakeread04,
Pat in Virginia wrote:

Mary: I would think that *anyone* who goes to the trouble, time,
and expense of writing a book or publishing patterns would also
consider it a business, not 'a little hobby.' Do you know people
who do this for a little hobby?
PAT, who also appreciates Carol's input on the topic

I do and it astounds me! I've met several authors who didn't read their
contracts with their publishers, I've met a designer who sold templates
for years at a loss because she never bothered to figure out the cost to
produce them...the list goes on and yes these are names you have heard
of. There is a group of people who do this for the love of it and
really don't think much about the business aspect of it. They clearly
aren't trying to pay the mortgage with their quilting work :-)

I really enjoy reading all the posts on this topic. I find the subject
very interesting and important. However, and I know I will get
harrassed for this.....Most everything that has been said is personal
opinion. A big discussion on this topic has been going on over on the
quilt designers list. Some agree with the C. Peters web site that says
making and selling a quilt from a published source is ok. Others have
posted other websites (some US government, others from other IP
attorneys) who disagree.

Someone posted an e-mail from Brenda herself from the Dear Jane list in
which Brenda stated that her decision was two fold. One to defend her
trademark in using the Dear Jane name and two that making a quilt from
her pattern and selling it violates Brendas copyright. So, part of what
Carol said agrees with Brenda and part does not.

It's a hairy issue for all of us and frankly we won't get a definitive
answer until it's tried in court, and likely several times :-) I think
the best we can do for now is give credit where credit is due, ask
permission if we desire to sell an item and there is no permission
already given on the pattern (and some patternmakers do give outright
permission) and hope that this amount of due dilligence will protect us,
in the end.

marcella

It seems the *right* thing to do would be to tell the store owner that
*you* are uncomfortable with the illegal situation and would like your
money back for the class.


Kathy A. (Woodland, CA) BRBR

Hi Kathy:
Now that is another good answer!
All the best,
Carol Doak
http://quilt.com/CDoak