1st side distorts (flattens) when 2nd side is soldered

When soldering the 2nd side of a foiled stained glass piece, it appears
that the nice rounded solder bead on the 1st side gets distorted
(flattened) because it is heated from the heat of soldering the 2nd
side and the 1st side is resting on a flat surface. How can this be
avoided?

if you are using a reostat on your iron turn it down some, move around
to a different area dont stay in the same area to long, speed it up
dont move to slow you can always come back to do a little touch up, its
normal to get sag on back side sometime

does that mean that you should do the "good side" last? I'm afraid
that touching up a side that has sagged might result in a less
acceptable result.

wrote in message
oups.com...
When soldering the 2nd side of a foiled stained glass piece, it appears
that the nice rounded solder bead on the 1st side gets distorted
(flattened) because it is heated from the heat of soldering the 2nd
side and the 1st side is resting on a flat surface. How can this be
avoided?


What kind (brand and %) solder and flux are you using?

What kind of an iron?

How closely fit-up is the panel? (Big gaps, no gaps?)

Is your foil new (not oxidized?)

60/40 with liquid flux. Weller 100W. I am about to solder a octogan
clock project. My concern is from my first attempt.

I have not started to solder this clock (20 pieces), but I have a
grinder now, so most of the gaps are nearly 0 or very narrow. There
are 3 areas that have a partial edge that have about a 0.10 inch wide
gap. Sounds wide, but they are such a small percentage, that I hope
that does not have to be redone.

Here are some photos of the area I am concerned with:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rsolder002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rsolder003.jpg

This shows the entire layup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rsolder005.jpg

wrote in message
oups.com...
60/40 with liquid flux. Weller 100W. I am about to solder a octogan
clock project. My concern is from my first attempt.

I have not started to solder this clock (20 pieces), but I have a
grinder now, so most of the gaps are nearly 0 or very narrow. There
are 3 areas that have a partial edge that have about a 0.10 inch wide
gap. Sounds wide, but they are such a small percentage, that I hope
that does not have to be redone.


Speed and feed will determine how /if solder drops thru.

How fast you feed the solder to the tip and how fast you move the iron along
the foil seem, with practice you will reach a point where the solder is
melting down to the hot foil at the same rate you are feeding it to the
iron. At that point the solder will stop dropping THROUGH the panel, and
solder TO the panel, just takes practice, and move a little quicker than you
have been. DO not connect to a rheostat with that iron, just practice, it
will happen faster that way.

Hi

On 30 Apr 2006 08:23:15 -0700, wrote:

Here are some photos of the area I am concerned with:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rsolder002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rsolder003.jpg

This shows the entire layup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rsolder005.jpg

Some of the gaps are a bit on the large side - but not impossibly so.
Not being rude - but is this one of your first projects? (it's quite
ambitious - you're very brave ! - and it's looking pretty good g).

If you've not had that much practise at the soldering - why not find
some 'scrap' glass (cheap, clear window glass will do fine) and have a
bit of a 'play' on that first ? you'll be that much more confident and
expert when you're doing it for real.

Try cutting a sheet of window glass into four or six pieces - foil
them & then solder them back together again...?
Be aware that it's possible to crack the glass by leaving the iron in
position too long - maybe try doing this deliberately on the cheap
glass - so's you know how to avoid it on the expensive clock-face!
Also - wipe the crud off your iron on a dampened sponge, rag or,
'brillo' pad or newspaper every time you pick it up - helps to remove
the oxide that builds up as you solder.

For what it's worth - here's how I'd go about soldering up your clock
project... speaking only as an enthusiastic amateur g

Set the parts up on your wooden board, as per your last photo.
Put little 'dabs' of flux on the copper at key points (you're going to
tack the panel before doing the 'proper' soldering)

Tack the panel with small 'blobs' of solder.
Make sure that everything is where you want it to be (adjust if
necessary)
Flux all the copper tape - with the possible exception of the outside
edges - then wipe a thin layer of solder down every seam - don't worry
too much about forming a neat bead at this stage.

Using another wooden board - flip the panel over so you are now
working on the back - careful - it's not very strong yet !
Flux the back of the panel - and solder it, taking care to get a neat,
rounded bead (this is why you were 'playing' with the clear glass
earlier.

Once you're happy with the rear of the panel, use the wooden board
again to flip it back the right way up - and solder every seam -
making truly excellent rounded beads g

As you solder these front beads you'll find that, if you time it
right, you can get a nice bead on the front without the solder on the
back getting hot enough to melt - because there's a fair old thermal
mass of solder there now. There's a knack to getting the iron moving
slow enough to get a good melt, but not so slow that the heat
penetrates to the back...

Sorry if I'm teaching you how to suck eggs.....
... but hope this helps.

By the way - some books say that, if you have really large gaps, you
can use masking tape to stop the solder from falling though - but I
guess if the gaps are that large then the 'right' way is to re-cut the
glass... You could also 'caulk' the gap with a small piece of
rolled-up foil - but if you can get the soldering right then there's
really no need to...


Now stand back and congratulate yourself!
Good luck
Adrian
Suffolk UK
======return email munged=================
take out the papers and the trash to reply

Thanks for all your suggestions, Adrian. Yes, it is one of my first.
In fact, if you discount the practice tests that I did do on some
window glass, it is my first with real stained glass. I did a sloppy
butterfly with window glass. I may do some more practice with some
window glass before I tackle this. I was thinking of using the approach
you suggest of tacking the front first and completing the back before
finishing the front. I'll let you know how I make out. I hope I don't
have to "plug" the gaps. At least I'll start without plugging them to
see how they turn out.

Hi

On 30 Apr 2006 12:34:21 -0700, wrote:

Thanks for all your suggestions, Adrian. Yes, it is one of my first.
In fact, if you discount the practice tests that I did do on some
window glass, it is my first with real stained glass.

Ah, good - you've already done some 'learning' -much easier with
'cheap' glass g.....

I did a sloppy
butterfly with window glass. I may do some more practice with some
window glass before I tackle this.

Not a bad idea - you want to be confident before you take an iron to
the more expensive stuff. You might want to try creating a
deliberately 'bad' fit between two pieces of glass - and then you can
see the effect of the solder trying to drop through the gap.

As I say - the trick is to get 'sufficient' heat on the side you're
working on, without having so much heat that it all goes soggy !

Maybe a useful exercise for you...
Find some bare or tinner copper wire - strip some out of some old
mains cable if you can't find any other. Bend the wire into a square -
about 2" per side.

Foil up a piece of glass. Run some solder along the foil.
Prop the glass up on edge. You're going to solder the wire square onto
the edge of the glass.

Tack one corner of the wire square onto the foil. Now tack the other
corner of the wire square onto the foil.
So far, so good.
Now - run a neat bead of solder along the side of the wire square so
that the wire is enclosed in the solder. Go too fast, and you won't
get a neat bead. Go too slow, and the whole thing will get too hot,
and the wire loop will fall off the glass. Seems like a bit of a game
- but the point is that you should learn about how solder behaves,
melts and sets. Give it a try !

I was thinking of using the approach
you suggest of tacking the front first and completing the back before
finishing the front.

That's a good plan. I make lots of suncatchers, and by now I can get
away with soldering a neat bead on the front, then a bead on the back
- and (if necessary) just a quick touch with the iron on the front to
finish off. However - these are generally quite small pieces - so
they're much easier to handle than your large panel.

I'll let you know how I make out. I hope I don't
have to "plug" the gaps. At least I'll start without plugging them to
see how they turn out.

Another way, if you do have to plug, is to use offcuts of copper wire.
The trouble with gaps is that they may tend to produce a 'wide' joint
- so the finished bead looks wider. Probably not going to be suh a
problem with the size of panel you're making - but if it's a small
piece of work then it can be a bit more obvious.

Good luck - look forward to seeing a photo of the final item !

Adrian
Suffolk UK

======return email munged=================
take out the papers and the trash to reply