AD: Ebay and Justbeads auctions

Tink, in some cases I would agree with you, but not all. My issue with
Elizabeth is that she came into rcb under an alias thus obliterating any
trust I had in her. This made me distrustful of this forum for a very long
time and I resent that so much I can't measure it. So as far as I'm
concerned, all bets are off when it comes to who says what about her or
whether she's here to see the comments or not. The line was well and truely
crossed when she lied to me. She also took this argument to other groups and
they in turn bombed ours and such is the case in recent days. Elizabeth
precipitated this by her own actions. I take it personally and she is the
only person I have ever blocked on this group. I'm not easily hurt or
offended, so it takes a great deal for me to do something like that. I'm not
looking for counselling or to vent any anger, that's long since passed. As a
social worker, you would agree that there are two (or in this case) more
sides to every argument, yes? Those who have made comments may have done so
because they too were hurt or are angry that others were hurt. That it's
even being mentioned is a sign of just how much damage was done and that
there is still some recovery going on. I think that levity helps the
healing process.
Marisa AU/NZ

Just the social worker in me coming out, but don't y'all think that if
so many RCBers figured out who was being discussed here, that the
person in question would know, too? Or, at the very least, that
someone has contacted him/her?

I just hate seeing people discussed like this when they're not around
to defend themselves. Usenet words last forever. And, as my mother
always said, "If you don't have something nice to say, say it in
private."


Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

I have never embraced this philosophy. It's contributed to Anglo-paternalism
in ways I have personally seen do great damage to women. As recently as
while I was in Indianaopolis. A lot of nice women are on prozac.

--
Marisa (AU/NZ)
www.galleryvittoria.com
"She who dies with the biggest stash, wins."



My grandmother always used to say, "If you can't say anything good about
someone, then don't say anything".

I think one mistake we're making here is confusing the Business with the
Personal.

We were talking about this person's business practices. Tink, you approached
it as if it was a personal attack we were indulging in. Like we disliked the
person, and were enjoying dissing them. (Which was not the case.)

A lot of women, in particular, confuse business with personal. I'm sort of
surprised that you, Tink, did this, because of your innate intuitive business
sense (and your excellent marketing) -- that you didn't recognize the
difference, that you made it personal.

Just the social worker in me coming out, but don't y'all think that if
so many RCBers figured out who was being discussed here, that the
person in question would know, too? Or, at the very least, that
someone has contacted him/her?

I just hate seeing people discussed like this when they're not around
to defend themselves. Usenet words last forever. And, as my mother
always said, "If you don't have something nice to say, say it in
private."


~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

My grandmother always used to say, "If you can't say anything good about
someone, then don't say anything".

I have never embraced this philosophy. It's contributed to Anglo-paternalism
in ways I have personally seen do great damage to women. As recently as
while I was in Indianaopolis. A lot of nice women are on prozac.
--
Marisa (AU/NZ)

Forced niceness, no matter what the conditions, sets women up to respond to
inappropriate situations with niceness and politesse. This is what caused me
to get raped twice -- I was being nice, as I was raised to be. I shouldn't
have been being nice. I should've been rude. I could have avoided being
raped.

I realize this is my experience, but it's true across the board -- women being
nice-no-matter-what, and not practicing the other parts of their nature at all,
leads to a victim mentality. If you are always, always nice, you get taken
advantage of. And often, and in many permutations.

Not only that, but it forces you to lie on a daily basis. Being nice to
everyone all the time means you are not true to yourself, or anyone else. You
can be counted on to explode somewhere down the line. And a lot of people who
espouse Niceness No Matter What aren't always nice -- they simply say "If you
can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Then they say what they
damn well please, as long as they whisper about it.

I don't endorse honesty to the point of cruelty, or honesty for honesty's sake.
But saying you're nice all the time is pretty much a bald-faced, self-damaging
lie for nearly everyone who promotes themselves as such.
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

I have never embraced this philosophy. It's contributed to
Anglo-paternalism
in ways I have personally seen do great damage to women. As recently as
while I was in Indianaopolis. A lot of nice women are on prozac.

I always figured it should apply to both men AND women.

KarenK

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:45:06 +1300, Marisa Cappetta
wrote:

Tink, in some cases I would agree with you, but not all.

*snip*

I don't believe that Elizabeth is the person that Sooz and others were
talking about regarding her poor marketing skills and lack of color
sense. I'm paraphrasing here, as I don't feel like looking up the
exact quotes.

I have NO idea why Sooz brought Elizabeth into this discussion at all.
In fact, I was totally confused by the context of her statement. We
weren't even talking about Elizabeth, and I really have nothing to say
about her or the situation at all.

I do take issue with the fact that Sooz is implying that Elizabeth and
I were ever anything close to being friends. How many others here are
still receiving nasty emails from her? Anyone? Well, I am. Within the
last month, in fact.

Anyway, I have nothing more to say about Elizabeth. And as for Sooz
bringing her up totally out of context and in a manner reeking of
misinformation... Well, that was kind of like the point in the
playground fight where someone runs out of mean things to say and
blurts out, "Oh yeah? Well your mom smells funny. So there!"

As much as folks here will defend their right to say whatever they
wish about people, I reserve my right to speak up in defense of anyone
I choose. If it's ok for people to speak their mind, then it must be
ok for me to say that something bothers me. I will continue to do so
as I see fit. I feel I do so in an acceptable, non-abrasive way, and
I'm comfortable with that.

I've really only gone to the trouble to try to clarify all of this
because of the many, many folks here that I enjoy hanging out with.
And now, I'm really done talking about this.

Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

in article , Kathy N-V at
wrote on 23/11/04 1:02 PM:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:29:38 -0500, Karen_AZ wrote
(in message WCuod.154573$G15.152198@fed1read03):

In defense of "lazy" customers....not everyone is lucky enough to have a
good bead shop nearby,

Or have the ability to get there.

Let us not forget the beady souls who live in far away lands and are very
dependant on ebay, jb's and other websites.

--
Marisa (AU/NZ)
www.galleryvittoria.com
"She who dies with the biggest stash, wins."

I made a couple of facetious cracks when the trolls recently started bombing
the group with references to pnats. I thought your initial comments were
aimed at me. I wasn't speaking for Sooz, who is perfectly able to speak for
herself. With all due respect Tink, you reprimanded others (and I believed
I was included) for talking about someone behind their back. I don't think
you can then walk away with an, "I'm about done with this" when you've
levelled accusations and coupled it with a scolding, which whether you
intended it or not, I found judgemental. I took exception to it on no
one's behalf except my own.

I'm sorry you are still being bothered by Elizabeth, especially since you
did try to make peace with her. By all means stand up for her if you so
choose. As someone who cares about you, I am concerned about your decision,
I would rather see you take some kind of action to ensure she is unable to
contact you. However, I learned long ago about the futility of trying to
disuade anyone from something I may not agree with.

You don't need my permission to speak up when something bothers you, of
course. I'm sure you would be the first to acknowledge then, that if do
express an opion you would have to expect a response.
Marisa AU/NZ


Tink, in some cases I would agree with you, but not all.

*snip*

I don't believe that Elizabeth is the person that Sooz and others were
talking about regarding her poor marketing skills and lack of color
sense. I'm paraphrasing here, as I don't feel like looking up the
exact quotes.

I have NO idea why Sooz brought Elizabeth into this discussion at all.
In fact, I was totally confused by the context of her statement. We
weren't even talking about Elizabeth, and I really have nothing to say
about her or the situation at all.

I do take issue with the fact that Sooz is implying that Elizabeth and
I were ever anything close to being friends. How many others here are
still receiving nasty emails from her? Anyone? Well, I am. Within the
last month, in fact.

Anyway, I have nothing more to say about Elizabeth. And as for Sooz
bringing her up totally out of context and in a manner reeking of
misinformation... Well, that was kind of like the point in the
playground fight where someone runs out of mean things to say and
blurts out, "Oh yeah? Well your mom smells funny. So there!"

As much as folks here will defend their right to say whatever they
wish about people, I reserve my right to speak up in defense of anyone
I choose. If it's ok for people to speak their mind, then it must be
ok for me to say that something bothers me. I will continue to do so
as I see fit. I feel I do so in an acceptable, non-abrasive way, and
I'm comfortable with that.

I've really only gone to the trouble to try to clarify all of this
because of the many, many folks here that I enjoy hanging out with.
And now, I'm really done talking about this.

Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

Actually the forced niceness isn't as bad as the habitual niceness. When
it's forced, the nice person is aware that it's not a correct response.
It's when we are always nice because we have taken it on as part of our
nature that it becomes most harmful. It's at that point that we stop
discriminating, stop protecting ourselves. We start to lose the very
perception of "No", and with that we lose the ability to really say "Yes"
and live fully. At this point you aren't lying on a daily basis, you simply
aren't seeing reality and responding to it honestly. You lose a your
capacity for honesty to a degree. This sounds like an unusually dramatic
response, but it is not uncommon at all.

Tina


"Dr. Sooz" wrote in message
...
My grandmother always used to say, "If you can't say anything good
about
someone, then don't say anything".

I have never embraced this philosophy. It's contributed to
Anglo-paternalism
in ways I have personally seen do great damage to women. As recently as
while I was in Indianaopolis. A lot of nice women are on prozac.
--
Marisa (AU/NZ)

Forced niceness, no matter what the conditions, sets women up to respond
to
inappropriate situations with niceness and politesse. This is what caused
me
to get raped twice -- I was being nice, as I was raised to be. I
shouldn't
have been being nice. I should've been rude. I could have avoided being
raped.

I realize this is my experience, but it's true across the board -- women
being
nice-no-matter-what, and not practicing the other parts of their nature at
all,
leads to a victim mentality. If you are always, always nice, you get
taken
advantage of. And often, and in many permutations.

Not only that, but it forces you to lie on a daily basis. Being nice to
everyone all the time means you are not true to yourself, or anyone else.
You
can be counted on to explode somewhere down the line. And a lot of people
who
espouse Niceness No Matter What aren't always nice -- they simply say "If
you
can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Then they say what
they
damn well please, as long as they whisper about it.

I don't endorse honesty to the point of cruelty, or honesty for honesty's
sake.
But saying you're nice all the time is pretty much a bald-faced,
self-damaging
lie for nearly everyone who promotes themselves as such.
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character;
business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without
sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

I think there's a problem here in that there are three subjects being
discussed. I see references to The Greatest Beader, references to someone
who used to post here, and references to someone who has never posted here
but doesn't heed feedback and requests for more information from customers.
Without naming names, the references can get mixed up, and know one wants to
risk embarrassing anyone by naming names. It does make it a kind of double
bind.

Tina


"Tinkster" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:45:06 +1300, Marisa Cappetta
wrote:

Tink, in some cases I would agree with you, but not all.

*snip*

I don't believe that Elizabeth is the person that Sooz and others were
talking about regarding her poor marketing skills and lack of color
sense. I'm paraphrasing here, as I don't feel like looking up the
exact quotes.

I have NO idea why Sooz brought Elizabeth into this discussion at all.
In fact, I was totally confused by the context of her statement. We
weren't even talking about Elizabeth, and I really have nothing to say
about her or the situation at all.

I do take issue with the fact that Sooz is implying that Elizabeth and
I were ever anything close to being friends. How many others here are
still receiving nasty emails from her? Anyone? Well, I am. Within the
last month, in fact.

Anyway, I have nothing more to say about Elizabeth. And as for Sooz
bringing her up totally out of context and in a manner reeking of
misinformation... Well, that was kind of like the point in the
playground fight where someone runs out of mean things to say and
blurts out, "Oh yeah? Well your mom smells funny. So there!"

As much as folks here will defend their right to say whatever they
wish about people, I reserve my right to speak up in defense of anyone
I choose. If it's ok for people to speak their mind, then it must be
ok for me to say that something bothers me. I will continue to do so
as I see fit. I feel I do so in an acceptable, non-abrasive way, and
I'm comfortable with that.

I've really only gone to the trouble to try to clarify all of this
because of the many, many folks here that I enjoy hanging out with.
And now, I'm really done talking about this.

Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm