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  #11  
Old May 2nd 06, 11:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
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Default Rheostat

HI Moon

On Tue, 2 May 2006 18:06:39 -0400, "Moonraker"
wrote:


"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote
in message ...
HI Moon

On Mon, 1 May 2006 16:03:40 -0400, "Moonraker"
wrote:


"Jeff Diebolt" wrote in message
...
Why no rheostat with the weller?

The Weller 100 Pro has temp controlled tips, avail at 700*F, and 800*F
temps. There may be another temp available, too.

A controller would serve no purpose. The iron itself does the

controlling,
much more accurately than a controller ever could. My iron is ALWAYS

700*F,
never 1000 or 1200, so when I pull it out of the holder, I know exactly
how the solder is going to react to the iron and the joint.

I'm sorely tempted by the Weller 100-watter.
Currently I use a 75w (non-tc) Weller, but it suffers, as you'd
expect, from getting too cool too often when in use - or too hot when
it's sitting in the stand - eats bits, too.

The only thing stopping me is the cost g
Yet again, we over here in the UK seem to be paying over the odds for
equipment - xe.com reckons that the Dollar to UK pound exchange rate
is about 1.8 to 1 - and yet something like the Weller 100 costs about
the same over here in Pounds as it does over there in dollars....!

I have 240 - 110 transformers in the studio - I'm inclined to import a
110V USA iron and some spare bits (also 'pounds for dollars') and go
that way.....

In another life I worked in electronics, and the difference between
using a non-temp-controlled iron and the 'standard' Weller 50W
temp-controlled iron was astounding.... - in terms of reliable
soldering and consistency of temperature, also bit life.

Trouble is - I'm still saving up for that wet-belt sander.....g
(only joking !)


http://www.stainedglasswarehouse.com/

I've bought quite a little bit from these people. If you get on their
mailing list, they have a "private" monthly sale. This past month they had
the Weller 100 on sale for $58, (~33GBP)so I ordered a spare and some tips
along with some replacement tips for a couple of Inland irons I carry in my
truck.. I don't know about their international policies or the like, but
they do respond immediately and ship promptly.


They've still got the same offer - I've just been looking on eBay &
there are reliable-looking suppliers charging about the same price
there.... - so it's a matter of checking out shipping costs.

I was a bit surprised to see that stainedglasswarehouse.com suggest
that
quote
Regardless of this feature, using a rheostat with this or any iron is
recommended. It's easier to adjust the temperature with a rheostat
when needed than to change the tip
unquote

I've never tried it - but I'd imagine that using a rheostat (like a
lighting dimmer, right ?) with a temp-controlled iron will be pretty
ineffective ... I could only guess that it would actually slow down
the iron's 're-heat' time - as the actual temperature control is
taking place via the magnetic switch at the bit... odd....?


I don't understand the obsession with high temp iron tips. As long as the
thermal mass of the tip is sustainable at a temp great enough to melt solder
at 560*F, what is the point of the overkill in temp? Using a 1000*F tip
proves nothing.


I think I agree with you - I'd rather have a consistent, controllable
temperature on an iron instead of something that practically glows -
can't see the advantage in that at all...?

Except I guess Brady gets some testosterone buzz from
beating his chest and making everybody think he has enough business that
"saving" 20 minutes on a project is somehow important. As if....

It's been my experience that you _can_ have 'too much' heat when
soldering - it was certainly true in electronics (though I do realise
that's a different ball game altogether !)

Sure - you need enough heat - but why 'twice enough'...?

Been doing some 'kiln carving' today - experimenting with plaster
moulds and letting the glass slump over them - great fun - but another
place where you can have 'too much heat'. Aiming to get the glass to
thin down over the plaster pieces - did this so effectively with one
piece that it went straight through ! Ah well - it's all learning g

Regards
Adrian
Suffolk UK
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  #13  
Old May 3rd 06, 04:54 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat


wrote in message
oups.com...
Graham at Cat's Glass in St Catherines Ontario advertisea 900 deg
Weller tips for sale. I believe Glass Smith in Victoria BC also sells
them.

My stock is not for sale. Getting another batch from Weller requires a
much larger order than I'm prepared to make. At one time our shop used
only Weller irons (exclusively with 900 tips) but we have switched to
now use mostly Hexacon 175 watters that run at 960 deg.

The only difference between working with a 700 tip and a 900 tip is you
need to learn to solder faster using higher heat. We use the Wellers
with 900 tips for lead and 3D models - the Hexacons for everything
else. Why spend 30 minutes with a 100 watt iron when you can complete
the job in 10 minutes with a 175 watt one? I estimate the cost of a
Hexacon is recovered in less than a month in time savings.


No one solders faster than me. In fact no one cuts or foils faster than
I do. I've won many contests, and my walls are littered with awards, and my
shelves with trophies. I even beat out 100 blind Tibetan monks when I broke
my wrist and was in a cast 4 years ago. I'll post the pictures someday. You
can't manage to send me just one tip? I never saw a 900 before, and since
you don't seem to use them anymore........... plus how about all the support
I've given you on this NG? Isn't all that worth 1 lousy tip? Maybe we can
trade? I may have a Hot Rod iron laying around.


--

JK Sinrod
www.sinrodstudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com


  #14  
Old May 3rd 06, 07:35 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat

HI Moon

On Tue, 2 May 2006 20:08:45 -0400, "Moonraker"
wrote:


"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote
in message ...
HI Moon
I was a bit surprised to see that stainedglasswarehouse.com suggest
that
quote
Regardless of this feature, using a rheostat with this or any iron is
recommended. It's easier to adjust the temperature with a rheostat
when needed than to change the tip
unquote

I've never tried it - but I'd imagine that using a rheostat (like a
lighting dimmer, right ?) with a temp-controlled iron will be pretty
ineffective ... I could only guess that it would actually slow down
the iron's 're-heat' time - as the actual temperature control is
taking place via the magnetic switch at the bit... odd....?


A rheostat drops the voltage by resistance, thereby creating heat (in the
controller, rather than in the iron). Using a controller on an already
internally controlled tip will only make the tip heat more slowly initially,
and recover slowly. Ohms law still applies.


Yes - I'd have thought so.
Effectively you'd reduce the voltage across the iron, therefore
reducing the wattage (Volts x Current) - so your 100W iron would heat
up like (say) a 50W iron. Odd thing to do ...?


I don't have a "manual" on the Weller 100P at the moment, but it seems to
me the company specifically says not to use a controller with this iron. As
soon as my new one gets here, I'll check the packaging to be sure.


I'd be interested to hear what the instructions say.
Found a spec on the iron from the manufacturers

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brand...c=037103474261

- interestingly it states the following

# Temperature is controlled by tip-600°F, 700°F, and 800°F tips
available

Think that's the way to go......

I've got a stand at a little Exhibition this weekend - if sales go OK
then maybe I'll treat myself g

Regards
Adrian
Suffolk UK


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  #15  
Old May 3rd 06, 09:23 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat

Hi! Just came across this info at the wholesaler Lincoln Stained Glass
Distributor. Since I am firmly lodged on the learning curve, this type of
info is really enlightening. Anyway, it states here that the Weller 100w
soldering iron has "...patented temperature control unit [which]eliminates
the need for rheostat. The W100 quickly reaches the proper temperature and
maintains it for smooth, even solder lines." The link is included for your
perusal.
http://www.lincolnglass.com/index.cf...urnTo=itemList

I also came across Techni-Tool, who claims they carry "Every Weller
soldering station, tip, iron and accessory available." And they do indeed
have a huge selection. Note worthy were two listings for 900 degree tips.
One is for a thread-on tip and one is for a thread-in tip. The thread-on tip
ad states that it "Fits Weller modular irons and handles SL325, SL335,
SL345, SL500, 7400, 7500, 7760, 7770 45 Watt, 900°F (4037S)", while the
thread-in tip ad states "HEATING ELEMENTS WITH INTEGRAL LONG TAPER CHISEL.
1/8" THREAD-IN; WATT/TEMP.: 45W/900 DEGREES F." Note both are for the 45
watt iron. The model number for the 100w Weller is not listed for the 900
degree tips. Here is that link.
https://webvia.techni-tool.com/VIA/v...OVMTC=standard

At the same site, the ad for the 100w Weller soldering iron states that it
"Uses CT6 Series tips." The CT6 Series only comes in 700 and 800 degrees
(at least at Techni-Tool...who claims to have EVERY Weller soldering
station, tip, iron and accessory available.) Now this does not mean that
Weller NEVER made a 900 degree tip for the 100w iron; it does appear,
however, that they do not make one for the 100w iron now.

In my classes the import was always put on the wattage of the iron (my Nazi
instructor insisted that the Weller 100w was the only one to ever
use...period.) I was instructed that if I stayed with the 100w, temperature
would not be a concern. Am I missing something if I do not make the higher
temperatures a concern? I mean, are there techniques that would require a
hotter (faster) iron that I should be investigating?

Thanks!
Lori


  #16  
Old May 3rd 06, 12:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat


"FlameNwind" wrote in message
news:lMZ5g.5451$c%5.961@trnddc02...
Hi! Just came across this info at the wholesaler Lincoln Stained Glass
Distributor. Since I am firmly lodged on the learning curve, this type of
info is really enlightening. Anyway, it states here that the Weller 100w
soldering iron has "...patented temperature control unit [which]eliminates
the need for rheostat. The W100 quickly reaches the proper temperature and
maintains it for smooth, even solder lines." The link is included for

your
perusal.

http://www.lincolnglass.com/index.cf...urnTo=itemList

I also came across Techni-Tool, who claims they carry "Every Weller
soldering station, tip, iron and accessory available." And they do indeed
have a huge selection. Note worthy were two listings for 900 degree tips.
One is for a thread-on tip and one is for a thread-in tip. The thread-on

tip
ad states that it "Fits Weller modular irons and handles SL325, SL335,
SL345, SL500, 7400, 7500, 7760, 7770 45 Watt, 900°F (4037S)", while the
thread-in tip ad states "HEATING ELEMENTS WITH INTEGRAL LONG TAPER CHISEL.
1/8" THREAD-IN; WATT/TEMP.: 45W/900 DEGREES F." Note both are for the 45
watt iron. The model number for the 100w Weller is not listed for the 900
degree tips. Here is that link.

https://webvia.techni-tool.com/VIA/v...OVMTC=standard

At the same site, the ad for the 100w Weller soldering iron states that it
"Uses CT6 Series tips." The CT6 Series only comes in 700 and 800 degrees
(at least at Techni-Tool...who claims to have EVERY Weller soldering
station, tip, iron and accessory available.) Now this does not mean that
Weller NEVER made a 900 degree tip for the 100w iron; it does appear,
however, that they do not make one for the 100w iron now.

In my classes the import was always put on the wattage of the iron (my

Nazi
instructor insisted that the Weller 100w was the only one to ever
use...period.) I was instructed that if I stayed with the 100w,

temperature
would not be a concern. Am I missing something if I do not make the

higher
temperatures a concern? I mean, are there techniques that would require a
hotter (faster) iron that I should be investigating?

Thanks!
Lori



It depends, what kind of work do you do?
If you build small panels, 3-d pieces, jewelry boxes, etc. no reason for
over kill.
If you do large, 30" X 120" ecclesiastical panels in churches, where re-bar
and wider leads are used, the job would be much easier with a higher
wattage,but also larger mass tip. say 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" tip size. In that
size iron, tip size and wattage go hand in hand, but if that does not apply
to you, why bother. Those are heavy irons, and not particularly ergonomic
either.


  #17  
Old May 3rd 06, 01:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat


"FlameNwind" wrote in message
news:lMZ5g.5451$c%5.961@trnddc02...
In my classes the import was always put on the wattage of the iron (my

Nazi
instructor insisted that the Weller 100w was the only one to ever
use...period.)


What is important is the "thermal mass" of the tip. A fine-pointed small
tip obviously can't store as much heat as a wide chisel tip. The smaller
tip requires more wattage to recover temperature as you work. And, that's
mostly theoretical, because most projects aren't big enough for that to be
a concern anyhow.

I was instructed that if I stayed with the 100w, temperature would not be

a concern. Am I missing something if I do not make the higher temperatures
a concern?

Unless you are planning on going into production making products in high
volume and trying to set a land speed record in the process, all the
posturing and chest-thumping about high temp irons is just not applicable.
Why would you want to use a iron that _forces_ you to work at a pace greater
than your comfort level? Just to save a few minutes at the expense of
jangling your nerves? The solder bead looks just the same, the joint
strength is the same.

What's the point? Unless you want to be able to brag that you vaporized a
whole roll of solder in 12 seconds with some hopped-up soldering iron?
Brady reminds me of Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor on the TV show...always
screwing something up and grunting like a little pig.

I mean, are there techniques that would require a hotter (faster) iron

that I should be investigating?

Nah. Your Weller 100P will serve you well. I've used this iron for almost
15 years, and there have only been a few times that I needed something
bigger...like when I was attaching/re-attaching some steel re-bars to big
windows. For a home hobby studio like yours, you have what you need.

Thanks!
Lori


You are welcome. Thanks for the thoughtful questions.


  #18  
Old May 3rd 06, 10:04 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
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Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat


"Moonraker" wrote in message
. ..

I don't have a "manual" on the Weller 100P at the moment, but it seems to
me the company specifically says not to use a controller with this iron.

As
soon as my new one gets here, I'll check the packaging to be sure.

Well, it came today. No mention of a controller,one way or the other. Only
mentioned 600,700, and 800 tips, but did give the model # for the Euro 220v
version. Apparently you should be looking for a W60P (D) version.



  #19  
Old May 3rd 06, 10:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat

HI Moon

On Wed, 3 May 2006 17:04:02 -0400, "Moonraker"
wrote:


"Moonraker" wrote in message
...

I don't have a "manual" on the Weller 100P at the moment, but it seems to
me the company specifically says not to use a controller with this iron.

As
soon as my new one gets here, I'll check the packaging to be sure.

Well, it came today. No mention of a controller,one way or the other. Only
mentioned 600,700, and 800 tips, but did give the model # for the Euro 220v
version. Apparently you should be looking for a W60P (D) version.


No problem - I think I've located (stateside)a good deal on a 100W
(110v) iron - which, even with postage, is still going to be a good
bit cheaper than buying the UK version over here.

I have 110v in the studio - so that'll work fine....

The same supplier also carries the "Twofer" ultra-fine grinder heads,
so I can sort out my sawn edges on my fused glass .... just waiting
for a combined price incl shipping....

Looking forward to the new iron - thanks all for the advice

Adrian
Suffolk UK



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  #20  
Old May 4th 06, 12:46 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rheostat


A rheostat drops the voltage by resistance, thereby creating heat (in the
controller, rather than in the iron). Using a controller on an already
internally controlled tip will only make the tip heat more slowly
initially,
and recover slowly. Ohms law still applies.

If it really is a rheostat. However, rather too often people refer to a
rheostat when today it
is actually a solid state dimmer circuit that produces almost no heat. The
dimmers put in the
wall, rated at 600 watts, use a tiny rheostat to control a triac or a pair
of SCR's (silicon controlled
recifier) to switch on each half cycle part way through.
A rheostat to directly control 600 watts (they used to use them in
theaters) is a disk about a foot across.

--
Mike Firth
Furnace Glassblowing Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/
"Moonraker" wrote in message
. ..

"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the
wrote
in message ...
HI Moon
I was a bit surprised to see that stainedglasswarehouse.com suggest
that
quote
Regardless of this feature, using a rheostat with this or any iron is
recommended. It's easier to adjust the temperature with a rheostat
when needed than to change the tip
unquote

I've never tried it - but I'd imagine that using a rheostat (like a
lighting dimmer, right ?) with a temp-controlled iron will be pretty
ineffective ... I could only guess that it would actually slow down
the iron's 're-heat' time - as the actual temperature control is
taking place via the magnetic switch at the bit... odd....?


A rheostat drops the voltage by resistance, thereby creating heat (in the
controller, rather than in the iron). Using a controller on an already
internally controlled tip will only make the tip heat more slowly
initially,
and recover slowly. Ohms law still applies.

I don't have a "manual" on the Weller 100P at the moment, but it seems to
me the company specifically says not to use a controller with this iron.
As
soon as my new one gets here, I'll check the packaging to be sure.




 




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