While you stitch - who's watching the Olympics

"ellice" wrote in message
...
On 8/12/08 8:38 PM, "lucretia borgia" wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:10:47 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
opined:


Putting its own journalists in jail is a little different than
killiing
someone else's. Perhaps shouldn't be, but is.

Elizabeth
I suspect the Chinese govt could manufacture a reason to jail a
Western
journalist. Once you're in there, what are the chances of getting out
again?

They could, but it is highly unlikely they will. What they do to
their own citizens is something we can do little about, but should
they do it to an American, the adverse publicity would be too bad,
they are not about to do that.
Hey - they added poison to dog food and I'll bet that was knowingly.

C
I really don't think they knowingly added poison to animal food. Think
about how many factories there are supplying the food, the number is
mind boggling, and to be fair, it would be hard to control. When I see
the bloopers here, how much more difficult there must it be? It
really was not in their interests to poison our pets, **** happens.

I think the carelessness and lack of concern for safety is intentional as
it
stems from profit motivation, and disregard for what other cultures may
find
acceptable or safe. There was definite lying in the factories. And has
continued to be. Which is why the US has now put more stringent
inspection
requirements and restrictions on imports from China.

If you really want to know - I blame a lot of that on Wartmart that
really pushed the limit on off shore goods. Now in a Canadian
stupidmarket you are hard put to know what you are eating. We
unfortunately have this idea that Produced in Canada means that shrimp
came from our waters. Well it ain't so, it came from waters off
Thailand but because the plastic bag that it was frozen in comes from
Canada, they can put Produced in Canada on it. Would I eat shrimp
from waters off Thailand, no, but then again, I would if I wasn't
careful lol Wartmart has created this monster IMO.

Not just them. Though, I try very hard to avoid shopping there on the
basic
human rights issues, etc. And we're picky about what supermarket, what
foods we buy - what to get organic, what to juat be sure is "healthy"
without nitrates, etc.

Ellice

Not quite as serious as the rest of this discussion, did you know Oscar
Meyer makes hot dogs without nitrates? They're good too.

Lucille

ellice wrote:


I think the carelessness and lack of concern for safety is intentional as it
stems from profit motivation, and disregard for what other cultures may find
acceptable or safe. There was definite lying in the factories. And has
continued to be. Which is why the US has now put more stringent inspection
requirements and restrictions on imports from China.

I don't think the carelessness stemmed from any profit motive at all.
It more likely stemmed from a fear of what happens when the factory
doesn't meet its production targets for any given time period. That has
nothing to do with profit and everything to do with staying out of
prison. Now, the targets may have been set to make a certain profit
trading with the West, but that happens at a different level of the
planning procedure completely.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jangchub wrote:
I would think the growing mind would be much better off learning how
to deal with losing graciously than to be told otherwise.


That was exactly my concern. At some point in life, you're going to
lose, and you'd better be able to handle it better than pouting and
tantruming.

But the self-esteem movement won, and now we all have to deal with
people who can't lose graciously because they grew up in a world where
no one kept score so that everyone's itty-bitty self-esteem is preserved
because no one ever loses.

Am I a baby boomer?



Yes, dear, we are.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

ellice wrote:
But, also with your surgery being done that long ago - the
horizontal incision. It's really unusual in the last 30 years.



It's more than 30 years ago that my roomie got her knee done, so she was
probably one of the last with the full-slash procedure.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

On 8/12/08 10:33 PM, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote:


"ellice" wrote in message
...
On 8/12/08 8:38 PM, "lucretia borgia" wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:10:47 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
opined:


Putting its own journalists in jail is a little different than
killiing
someone else's. Perhaps shouldn't be, but is.

Elizabeth
I suspect the Chinese govt could manufacture a reason to jail a
Western
journalist. Once you're in there, what are the chances of getting out
again?

They could, but it is highly unlikely they will. What they do to
their own citizens is something we can do little about, but should
they do it to an American, the adverse publicity would be too bad,
they are not about to do that.
Hey - they added poison to dog food and I'll bet that was knowingly.

C
I really don't think they knowingly added poison to animal food. Think
about how many factories there are supplying the food, the number is
mind boggling, and to be fair, it would be hard to control. When I see
the bloopers here, how much more difficult there must it be? It
really was not in their interests to poison our pets, **** happens.

I think the carelessness and lack of concern for safety is intentional as
it
stems from profit motivation, and disregard for what other cultures may
find
acceptable or safe. There was definite lying in the factories. And has
continued to be. Which is why the US has now put more stringent
inspection
requirements and restrictions on imports from China.

If you really want to know - I blame a lot of that on Wartmart that
really pushed the limit on off shore goods. Now in a Canadian
stupidmarket you are hard put to know what you are eating. We
unfortunately have this idea that Produced in Canada means that shrimp
came from our waters. Well it ain't so, it came from waters off
Thailand but because the plastic bag that it was frozen in comes from
Canada, they can put Produced in Canada on it. Would I eat shrimp
from waters off Thailand, no, but then again, I would if I wasn't
careful lol Wartmart has created this monster IMO.

Not just them. Though, I try very hard to avoid shopping there on the
basic
human rights issues, etc. And we're picky about what supermarket, what
foods we buy - what to get organic, what to juat be sure is "healthy"
without nitrates, etc.

Ellice

Not quite as serious as the rest of this discussion, did you know Oscar
Meyer makes hot dogs without nitrates? They're good too.

Lucille

Nice to know. We're lucky to have a large Wegman's nearby (less than a mile
from new job) which also has a full Kosher depsrtment. They have food under
their label with a yellow banner on it "Food you Feel Good About" - which
means it has no added hormones, artificial bad stuff, etc. Not everything.
But, it is less pricey than the certified organic and good quality. Even
some of the meat dept is that way - not all - but some. So, I've taken to
buying our meats, fish there (they don't chemically wash) and in general do
my shopping there. Only problem - being able to bypass all the gorgeous,
high-priced splurgey stuff. But, they also have their own labels of uncured
bacon, etc. Our friends who only go there once in a while find it a pricey
grocery trip. OTOH, my pal who owns the framers & I both have now made it
our regular shopping trip, and find it cheaper by far than Safeway (much
better quality), a bit cheaper than Harris-Teeter and the local chain,
Giant. They don't carry as much of the national brands in the non-food
items, but, carry lots of NY brands - so that makes DH happy. And in
general the produce and meats, cheeses are great. It's almost like being in
a good European grocers for the cheese. And they have organic produce, some
pre-packed, under their own label - which is really reasaonable. It's just
getting past the bakery without going totally nuts - I limit us to one
special bread a trip.

Ellice

On 8/12/08 11:19 PM, "Dr. Brat" wrote:

ellice wrote:


I think the carelessness and lack of concern for safety is intentional as it
stems from profit motivation, and disregard for what other cultures may find
acceptable or safe. There was definite lying in the factories. And has
continued to be. Which is why the US has now put more stringent inspection
requirements and restrictions on imports from China.

I don't think the carelessness stemmed from any profit motive at all.
It more likely stemmed from a fear of what happens when the factory
doesn't meet its production targets for any given time period. That has
nothing to do with profit and everything to do with staying out of
prison. Now, the targets may have been set to make a certain profit
trading with the West, but that happens at a different level of the
planning procedure completely.

Elizabeth

Oh, I don't know. In a factory the managers up the line know what's
happening, And they're profit driven. It costs more to have quqlity
control, and that goes from ingredients to processing to cleaning all across
the board. I've spent my fair share of time in manufacturing facilities.
It may be fear on the lowest level of line worker, and the next is usually a
line supervisor - worker level, then there's some beginning manager. The
people that are out there all the time - they know. They may not
acknowledge, but they know.

When one of my contractors moved from their old, old factory in Lawrence
Mass to a shining new place in Amesbury - the workers were flipping out.
The old place had lots of hiding areas for things like coffee, cigarettes,
whatever - on the floor - where a stroll thru might not catch them - all the
time. But, the "management" knew it. New place - much more open. Harder
to have some crap around. OTOH, when suddenly it's "necessary" to speed up,
and cut some corner - it happens.

You don't seriously think that telling the western finishers if we go to a
product that may have some poisonous problems we can meet your deadline that
would be the final result?

In a manufacturing environment, the profit vs cost is seen all over the
place. Ultimately goals are set up high, but in every single factory I have
ever been in, and I'm thinking that's more than most people (not as many as
those who stay in the manufacturing profession) there is signage up on the
floor - accidents, quotas, making our profit, how many units, production
speed. All those kind of things. I've seen this in process plants, large
(huge) steel production facilities, electronics, plastics, casting
facilities, and....food processing. Line managers know if someone is
bringing in something out of the ordinary. And they also have to speak for
what their lines can do.

Ellice

On 8/13/08 6:08 AM, "lucretia borgia" wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:06:13 GMT, ellice opined:


Personally I have trouble with the whole concept that a country can decide a
group of people and land belongs to it when the people, and their land don't
want to - so to speak.

Ellice

Ditto, but then, the Chinese are far from being alone in this. With
them in mind, I think they will never manage to suck HK and Taiwan
back in now, even though the current generation in both of those are
not so avidly anti-Chinese.

True. It's one of those way of the world conundrums to me - and makes my
brain hurt. We have a family with whom we're casually friendly - that owns
a Chinese restaurant closer to town, and a farm out beyond us. Been going
there for about 17 years. The eldest brothers came from mainland China, the
sister - who is a little younger than me - I think was a baby when she came.
Very interesting - I think they had a hard time to get their parents for
many years - as somehow they escaped during Maoist time. They're very proud
of Chinese culture, etc - but not all the government problems for the last
50 years. They still have family there, and we always talk about Hong Kong
- and how much people really resent being turned back to China, etc. They
are also, truly, the American dream - immigrants that have kept up a
business, and the daughter of the middle brother is going into her senior
year at Virginia Tech - in electrical engineering. The son did his freshman
year at MIT with my goddaughter (they went to the same high school, Thomas
Jefferson- which is a famous science & tech school). The sister - my friend
- her kids - busy with a teen in gymnastics, and the other doing soccer.

Still, you see how sad it is when they speak of the situation still in
China.

Ellice

On 8/13/08 6:18 AM, "lucretia borgia" wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:10:02 GMT, ellice opined:

Well I would hope too, but I would not have much confidence. America
prides itself on Freedom of Expression, but not if you are 15 and a
prisoner in Guantamino of course. Then it is not convenient to even
stick with the basic Geneva Convention.

Broad strokes there. Many people would accept criticism, many not. Same as
any other place. The youth in Guantanemo is not quite the simple situation
we'd probably all like it to be.

ellice

No, but he was 15 at the time, no evidence shows he threw the grenade
and he had an evil father and equally poisonous mother and sister.
Whichever way one looks at it, he was a child soldier.

Personally I feel it is probably too late now, he has rotted in
Guantanamo too long to be able to be saved. I am very critical of
the US government AND our own for not working to free him far sooner,
but of course we have a nut who spends his time kissing GWBs ass.

Did they play the interviews with him on the CBC? It was interesting as
they went from you know this is not an adult to the acting like an adult.
The interviews with the Canadian interviewers, are the most emotional - as
they're essentially asking him to just tell what happened and all he'll say
is are you going to help me, etc. It's a terrible situation, but, as we
both know - not that it's right - there have been "child soldiers" all
throughout history, and across the world even now.

Ellice

On 8/12/08 9:17 PM, in article ,
"Dr. Brat" wrote:

Cheryl Isaak wrote:



Hey - they added poison to dog food and I'll bet that was knowingly.


Nope. They added fillers to materials that were shipped to the US where
they were used to produce dog food.

Elizabeth

The fillers were still supposed to be food grade.


Not buying it.

C

On 8/12/08 10:33 PM, in article
, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at
comcast..net wrote:


"ellice" wrote in message
...
On 8/12/08 8:38 PM, "lucretia borgia" wrote:

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:10:47 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
opined:


Putting its own journalists in jail is a little different than
killiing
someone else's. Perhaps shouldn't be, but is.

Elizabeth
I suspect the Chinese govt could manufacture a reason to jail a
Western
journalist. Once you're in there, what are the chances of getting out
again?

They could, but it is highly unlikely they will. What they do to
their own citizens is something we can do little about, but should
they do it to an American, the adverse publicity would be too bad,
they are not about to do that.
Hey - they added poison to dog food and I'll bet that was knowingly.

C
I really don't think they knowingly added poison to animal food. Think
about how many factories there are supplying the food, the number is
mind boggling, and to be fair, it would be hard to control. When I see
the bloopers here, how much more difficult there must it be? It
really was not in their interests to poison our pets, **** happens.

I think the carelessness and lack of concern for safety is intentional as
it
stems from profit motivation, and disregard for what other cultures may
find
acceptable or safe. There was definite lying in the factories. And has
continued to be. Which is why the US has now put more stringent
inspection
requirements and restrictions on imports from China.

If you really want to know - I blame a lot of that on Wartmart that
really pushed the limit on off shore goods. Now in a Canadian
stupidmarket you are hard put to know what you are eating. We
unfortunately have this idea that Produced in Canada means that shrimp
came from our waters. Well it ain't so, it came from waters off
Thailand but because the plastic bag that it was frozen in comes from
Canada, they can put Produced in Canada on it. Would I eat shrimp
from waters off Thailand, no, but then again, I would if I wasn't
careful lol Wartmart has created this monster IMO.

Not just them. Though, I try very hard to avoid shopping there on the
basic
human rights issues, etc. And we're picky about what supermarket, what
foods we buy - what to get organic, what to juat be sure is "healthy"
without nitrates, etc.

Ellice

Not quite as serious as the rest of this discussion, did you know Oscar
Meyer makes hot dogs without nitrates? They're good too.

Lucille




Really?? I've been buying Hebrew National for that reason. I'll go read the
tiny print again.

C