sewing machine prices?

You keep using economic aberrations as examples. You have no idea what it
costs to manufacture durable goods. I have been designing and build
machinery professionally for over 15 years. No, I don't take you seriously.
So far, you haven't shown that you know anything about anything. Exactly the
opposite.


"Warrior_13" wrote in message
...
kid? I happen to be 50 yrs old and I know what I am talking about. If you
think that a sewing machine that retails for $1000 costs the mfgr more
than
$100 to produce, you are totally naive.
The economy of the world is based on greed and nothing else. Let's take
diamonds now; they are plentiful, yet controlled by a cartel that ensures
the prices are kept high. To raise the appeal of the item, people think
expensive means the best, or in this case "forever".
Diamonds are as cheap and plentiful as other stones, this is just an
excellent marketing campaign by DeBeers to control the world's supply.
And so it goes with everything else.

"CW" wrote in message
news:12Dsb.138023$ao4.439128@attbi_s51...
Take a few economics classes, kid. Then get out in the world and see
how
things work. You have no idea right now.

"Warrior_13" wrote in message
...
Do the math. For example, we know that blank cds can be purchased in
bulk
for 15-25 cents each. Why is a recorded disk $15? Who do you think
gets
the
profit? The vocalist? The songwriter? No, the record company. And you
think
that is a fair profit? I don't.
And just because someone doesn't agree with all of you does not
condone
name
calling or other derogatory remarks about the person. Just say you
disagree
but don't resort to such childishness.
And you all need to learn how to spell!


"CW" wrote in message
news:%bCsb.185977$Fm2.170333@attbi_s04...
I think we have one of two things here (probably both). (1) A troll.
(2)
Someone (there are a lot of them) that doesn't have any idea what a
percentage is. They claim to never buy anything unless it is 50 to
60%
off.
They (he, she, it) must not own much. Not a lot of places are
willing
to
loose money on a sale.

"Penny S" wrote in message
...
Warrior_13's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:
I would tend to disagree. Out of 50 people I know personally,
maybe
2
out of 50 will be as frugal as me and take the time and effort
to
research, visit the local dealer, then go find the best price on
line. Most people are impulse shoppers and will buy on the spot,
especially if the dealer is a good salesman. And they will pay
retail
without batting an eye. Remember when the internet was young and
we
were promised lower prices because the overhead was no longer
there?
The mfgr websites still sell at retail, as well as the
authorized
dealers online. Sure they may give you a whopping 10% off, but
that
is nothing, I want 40-60% off of anything retail. Everything is
marked up 500-600%, so even at 40% off they are still making a
handsome profit.

please give examples ( at least 5) of things that are marked up
500%.
I"d love to see you data to back up your claim.

Penny S

The example was pretty lame. She (he, it) showed no comprehension of what
it took to produce that other than the cost of a blank CD.


"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote in
message ...
Warrior_13 wrote:
Do the math. For example, we know that blank cds can be purchased in
bulk
for 15-25 cents each. Why is a recorded disk $15? Who do you think gets
the
profit? The vocalist? The songwriter? No, the record company. And you
think
that is a fair profit? I don't.

That has nothing to do with your claim that people selling things mark
things up "500-600%." That is a value-added thing that has nothing to
do with an internet vendor's markup on the goods they sell.
--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

Warrior_13 wrote:

kid? I happen to be 50 yrs old and I know what I am talking about. If you
think that a sewing machine that retails for $1000 costs the mfgr more than
$100 to produce, you are totally naive.

You forgot to include the cost of lessons, technical support, and
warranty work (all labor costs and fairly expensive) when you calculated
what the machine cost. This is why the online people (particuarly
allbrands, who is not a dealer and cannot provide warranty work -- I am
pretty sure the archives of this or RCTS will say why but I have since
forgotten) can get away with selling them so cheaply -- because they
provide none of the above, and you are on your own.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa

CW wrote:

That's a fact. Some have to find out things like this the hard way. There
are advantages to buying local.


"Yarn Forward" wrote in message
. ..

But then try to get it serviced on the Internet! Dont expect your local

store

to do it.
Roger.

--
Yarn Forward
Your On Line Yarn Store
http://www.yarnforward.com


There are some dealers on the Internet who do service.
There are some local dealers who do not. They send
machines to the national center. There is one here that
does that, because he doesn't know how to service the
computerized machines.

All generalities are unreliable. ;-)

--

Joanne
http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/
Life is about the journey, not about the destination.

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply's cat walked across a keyboard
and came up with this:
Warrior_13 wrote:
Do the math. For example, we know that blank cds can be purchased in
bulk for 15-25 cents each. Why is a recorded disk $15? Who do you
think gets the profit? The vocalist? The songwriter? No, the record
company. And you think that is a fair profit? I don't.

That has nothing to do with your claim that people selling things mark
things up "500-600%." That is a value-added thing that has nothing to
do with an internet vendor's markup on the goods they sell.

He's forgetting the chain of production, and overhead to: take the cd
example: the plastic have to be forumulated, processed, all by workers who
get paid. Then, the recording... everyone gets paid something ( albeit the
industry does take a huge cut) whether they make coffee at the studio,
design the case art , push the buttons, pack the CD into cases, drive the
truck to the distribution center, run the forklift at the distribution
center, load the truck to get it to Wal-Mart or wherever, unload it.. the
cashier at the store where you buy it... ( I do agree that CD's are
overpriced but that's a different discussion)

Fabric... take cotton. Someone grows it, harvests it, gets it to a
processor, then a mill. Someone else runs the factory where it's processes,
turned into a fabric of some sort. Then maybe it's shipped again ( labor) to
a factory where it has it's final finishing ( printing etc) or turned into
clothing.... pattern makers, cutters, sewers.... more labor...more
distribution... everyone want's a piece of the pie....500% mark up? I don't
think so.

Penny

Warrior_13's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:
Do the math. For example, we know that blank cds can be purchased in
bulk for 15-25 cents each. Why is a recorded disk $15? Who do you
think gets the profit? The vocalist? The songwriter? No, the record
company. And you think that is a fair profit? I don't.

So how do rock stars and pop singers get money for multiple mansions and
jets if it not through payouts to the vocalist... are they robbing banks?

ps

Penny S wrote:

Warrior_13's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Do the math. For example, we know that blank cds can be purchased in
bulk for 15-25 cents each. Why is a recorded disk $15? Who do you
think gets the profit? The vocalist? The songwriter? No, the record
company. And you think that is a fair profit? I don't.


So how do rock stars and pop singers get money for multiple mansions and
jets if it not through payouts to the vocalist... are they robbing banks?

ps


Artists do get royalties for records (CDs) sold, but it's
mere pennies. They make the money on personal appearance
tours and that's not an easy way to make a buck. The
artistic contributors to CDs make very little per sale.
It is the record company that gets the lion's share. It's
similar to book royalties, where the author might get 70
cents for the sale of each $25 book, except a book takes
more to produce than a CD does. Known artists get paid an
advance (as do authors) then the company deducts that
advance from royalties due until sales exceed the owed
royalties already paid in the advance. If you follow that.

The markup on CDs is very high. It is much cheaper to
produce a CD today than it ever was. Recording equipment
that used to require a building will now fit into a
suitcase. The engineering that used to be required to mix
tracks is much simpler with computer technology. Burning
CDs is much cheaper than pressing vinyl. There is a lot
of money being made, but very few artists are seeing much
of it.

Another area with a large markup is jewelry. Of course,
deBeers has controlled diamond prices for decades. They
had a big scare when the Iron Curtain came down and there
was a danger that the Russians would flood the market.
Apparently Russian diamonds are not only plentiful, but of
outstanding quality. A deal was done.

Plastics are very cheap to produce, but the original
mold-making is costly. So, there has to be sufficient
sales to cover the initial costs. This is where we end up
paying through the nose, because sewing machines, knitting
machines, and the like do not sell in huge quantities.
The companies that produce these things are not going to
take any chances on losing money, so they price accordingly.

Probably one of the products that has the biggest markup
is athletic shoes, especially now that nearly all of them
are being made with cheap labor. The materials are
inexpensive, each unit requires only a little material,
yet finished shoes retail in the hundreds. There is a
large advertising budget.

The only way the manufacturers can get away with this is
that people buy their products. If people were to stop
buying, or demand value for their money, the market would
change.

--

Joanne
http://members.tripod.com/~bernardschopen/
Life is about the journey, not about the destination.

"CW" wrote:
It means a lot to most people that they can go to the store that
they bought the thing from and get service and advice. Try that on line.

Sure, on the internet you're not going to get the service you would
from a local retailer. I'm sure no one would disagree with that. Is
that a reason to put restrictions on retailers? If people really felt
there was a huge value-add that came from buying locally, then they
would disregard the good deals they can find on the internet and buy
locally. In theory, manufacturers wouldn't have to make any
restrictions on the vendors at all if the demand were really there for
all that service. In my opinion, they are alienating a growing part
of the population who are internet savvy and don't necessarily see the
value-add in the service (or who are willing to give that up for the
lower initial price). Realistically you can get your sewing machine
serviced at any local retailer even if you didn't buy your machine
there.

You go back and forth on your next point:

The manufacturers
put these restrictions on the dealers to keep people from going to their
local sewing machine dealer , trying out a machine, asking questions and
otherwise taking up that dealers time then going online and buying at the
cheapest price.
[snip]
Manufacturers are not doing the local dealers a favor, they are ensuring a
quality of service to their customers.

So which is it? Are the manufacturers putting these restrictions in
place to protect the local dealers or are they trying to force people
to go to the local dealer so customers receive better service? Do you
really think that the sewing machine companies actually care if the
local dealers become a demo facility? I really doubt that... That's
the local business's problem, not Bernina's. The bottom line is that
manufacturers want to sell machines. Perhaps a more likely rationale
is that they find it is more profitable to have more sales through
local retailers, since the service and value-add make for happy
customers, who, consequently, are more likely to buy a machine of the
same brand in the future. Business is business. There's something in
it for them.

You mentioned car manufacturers among the businesses that have similar
restrictions. This is a good point. I understand that these two
industries are drastically different. By no means am I making a
direct comparison here... One difference between the car industry and
the sewing machine industry is that the car industry has adapted to
the existence of the internet and the flurry of information that is
out there for consumers to read before making a purchase. They have
altered their business model to cater to more educated consumers -
the types of people that will research endlessly before a purchase.
In fact, many dealerships now have an internet sales division, where
they rely not on the profit made on each car (which has the potential
to be much lower if you know the invoice, etc.), but instead rely on
volume of sales.

The sewing machine business has not adapted to this yet, it seems.
And my guess is that more and more sewing machine consumers will be
relying on the internet for information in the future, so maybe we'll
see a change in how things work. By not adapting, any industry will
risk alienating potentially profitable customers. Perhaps soon we'll
be able to pay 10 dollars and get the "invoice" price from Consumer
Reports of the latest machines? :-)

I really have no idea about the inner workings of the sewing machine
industry, you see, but I found it much more frustrating to buy a
sewing machine than my most recent new car.

Anyway, that's my $.02. Take it or leave it, I suppose :-)

Robyn

I bought on-line and saved $2300 US........The nearby dealer will service
it......and I can pay for lots and lots of service for the difference. The
"feel-good" aspect of it did not matter as much as the money to me. Had it
nearly 2 years and have not needed service yet.......

"Robyn" wrote in message
om...
"CW" wrote:
It means a lot to most people that they can go to the store that
they bought the thing from and get service and advice. Try that on
line. -------------clipped---------

Robyn wrote:

that a reason to put restrictions on retailers? If people really felt
there was a huge value-add that came from buying locally, then they
would disregard the good deals they can find on the internet and buy
locally.

Actually, what I see happen all the time -- not just in sewing machines
but in lots of other things -- is that people take hours of the
full-price sellers' time to collect information and all and then go buy
it on the internet, usually smirking about what a good deal they got and
how they managed to do all their research for free. Well, it wasn't
*really* free -- it's just that someone else has to pay for it.

I guess I have a sensitive conscience, because to me that feels like
stealing.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa