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trademarking a makers mark



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 1st 05, 05:04 PM
New Grad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default trademarking a makers mark

Hi, my name is Amanda Lee, and I just graduated with my BFA in Metals and
Jewelry in December. I have spent the month of January making some jewelry,
and I would like to try to sell it. But before I do, I need some advice
about makers marks.

I have been working in sterling silver and have stamped my work .925 to
indicate the content and also have stamped it with my makers mark (logo).
All of the designs are mine, and I did all my own work.

I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry
boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from
artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's
unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark
for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state
from where his boutique is located.

Is what the owner said correct? Do I have to trademark my makers mark
before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you
tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing about
how or where to apply for a trademark.

Thank You.


Ads
  #2  
Old February 2nd 05, 02:50 AM
vj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad"
:

]Do I have to trademark my makers mark
]before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you
]tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing about
]how or where to apply for a trademark.

**IANAL** [I Am Not A Lawyer]
the ones i spoke to regarding this last summer said i COULD do it, but
probably did not need to go to that kind of expense. for something
like registering a trademark, an intellectual property lawyer is what
you would need. stores like K-Mart register their trademark, and then
put an R with a circle around it to indicate that it is a registered
trademark. i still may do it eventually, but with a starting cost of
$800 and up, it wasn't worth it to me yet.


--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
[it's a Callahan's thing]
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
"Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results.
I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison
  #3  
Old February 2nd 05, 09:19 AM
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

New Grad wrote:
Hi, my name is Amanda Lee, and I just graduated with my BFA in Metals and
Jewelry in December. I have spent the month of January making some jewelry,
and I would like to try to sell it. But before I do, I need some advice
about makers marks.

I have been working in sterling silver and have stamped my work .925 to
indicate the content and also have stamped it with my makers mark (logo).
All of the designs are mine, and I did all my own work.

I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry
boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from
artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's
unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark
for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state
from where his boutique is located.

Is what the owner said correct?


No.

Do I have to trademark my makers mark
before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state?


No. This is total nonsense. I have been selling my work across state lines for
well over 25 years. I have never had a gallery require a trademark from me.
Find yourself someone else to represent you.

And if so, can you
tell me how to trademark my makers mark?


It could cost you from several hundred to several thousand dollars to do this,
depending on whether you would involve a lawyer or not, and if so, how expensive
a lawyer. Don't be suckered into this.

I don't know the first thing about
how or where to apply for a trademark.


Well, just like applying for a patent, you would have to do a "trademark search"
first. After that you have to "apply for a trade mark". Do a google on "how to
trademark work" to learn more. Take a look at the Nolo Press site for some very
good answers regarding trade marks. http://tinyurl.com/289m and
http://tinyurl.com/52eut

There are lawyers who specialize in trade mark law, just as there are lawyers
that specialize in patent law. You have no need for them. You do not want to
work with a gallery who makes such ridiculous demands on you.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #4  
Old February 3rd 05, 02:31 AM
New Grad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you very much for replying to my message. I have spent quite a time
exploring the links you suggested--that Nolo site is very helpful.

I'm happy to hear that there are galleries that will consider my pieces
without a trademark. This was the first shop that I'd approached, and when
I heard what the owner had to say, I sort of went into shock. In college, I
sold to friends and through a shop associated with our art dept, but that
was different. I can see that I have a lot to learn about the "real world"!

After sending my message yesterday, I called my father. He's not a
lawyer--but he did contact a friend of his who is one. My father's friend
said that this is not his area of expertise, but he did know that there were
changes to the trade laws in 2001 that have caused a lot of confusion,
including among some attorneys! He said one source for information would be
the Federal Trade Commission's web site www.ftc.gov. (I haven't looked at
it too much yet. Nolo is easier to read, so I started there.) He also
suggested that I consider approaching some shops nearer my home.

Thanks again for your help. I also enjoyed looking at your Web site!



I am very glad to hear that
"Abrasha" wrote in message
...
New Grad wrote:
Hi, my name is Amanda Lee, and I just graduated with my BFA in Metals and
Jewelry in December. I have spent the month of January making some
jewelry,
and I would like to try to sell it. But before I do, I need some advice
about makers marks.

I have been working in sterling silver and have stamped my work .925 to
indicate the content and also have stamped it with my makers mark (logo).
All of the designs are mine, and I did all my own work.

I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale
jewelry
boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from
artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's
unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark
for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state
from where his boutique is located.

Is what the owner said correct?


No.

Do I have to trademark my makers mark
before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state?


No. This is total nonsense. I have been selling my work across state
lines for
well over 25 years. I have never had a gallery require a trademark from
me.
Find yourself someone else to represent you.

And if so, can you
tell me how to trademark my makers mark?


It could cost you from several hundred to several thousand dollars to do
this,
depending on whether you would involve a lawyer or not, and if so, how
expensive
a lawyer. Don't be suckered into this.

I don't know the first thing about
how or where to apply for a trademark.


Well, just like applying for a patent, you would have to do a "trademark
search"
first. After that you have to "apply for a trade mark". Do a google on
"how to
trademark work" to learn more. Take a look at the Nolo Press site for
some very
good answers regarding trade marks. http://tinyurl.com/289m and
http://tinyurl.com/52eut

There are lawyers who specialize in trade mark law, just as there are
lawyers
that specialize in patent law. You have no need for them. You do not
want to
work with a gallery who makes such ridiculous demands on you.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com



  #5  
Old February 3rd 05, 02:31 AM
New Grad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you for your reply. Mentioning kmart really put my question in a
different perspective. I certainly would never want anyone to think of my
jewelry as being in the same category with kmart jewelry!! You have given
me a new insight.

P.S. Your glass frog on the silver leaf is really cute.


"vj" wrote in message
...
vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad"
:

]Do I have to trademark my makers mark
]before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you
]tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing
about
]how or where to apply for a trademark.

**IANAL** [I Am Not A Lawyer]
the ones i spoke to regarding this last summer said i COULD do it, but
probably did not need to go to that kind of expense. for something
like registering a trademark, an intellectual property lawyer is what
you would need. stores like K-Mart register their trademark, and then
put an R with a circle around it to indicate that it is a registered
trademark. i still may do it eventually, but with a starting cost of
$800 and up, it wasn't worth it to me yet.


--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
[it's a Callahan's thing]
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
"Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results.
I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison



  #6  
Old February 3rd 05, 06:37 AM
vj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad"
:

]Thank you for your reply. Mentioning kmart really put my question in a
]different perspective. I certainly would never want anyone to think of my
]jewelry as being in the same category with kmart jewelry!! You have given
]me a new insight.

well, that wasn't quite what i meant.
generally, only huge corporations need to trademark their logos to
keep them from being used by someone else.

]P.S. Your glass frog on the silver leaf is really cute.

**smile** thank you!

--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
[it's a Callahan's thing]
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
"Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results.
I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison
  #7  
Old February 3rd 05, 07:47 AM
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:04:06 -0800, in Tõ "New Grad"
wrote:

I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry
boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from
artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's
unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark
for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state
from where his boutique is located.


This thread got me thinking, and dong some web searching. I came up with a few
interesting points.

The U.S. law regarding precious metal marking does not require you to mark karat content
on gold or silver quality on silver, etc. If you choose not to mark it, however, it
cannot then be represented as such. If you DO mark it, such as stamping it sterling or
a karat mark, then U.S. law requires, if the articles are subject to federal law, which
means interstate commerce, that the items ALSO be marked with either a U.S. registered
trademark, OR the name of the maker. If the latter (your name), then you don't need to
register your name for it to be legal. But the point is that it is entirely legal to
sell the work in interstate commerce with no marks at all. Only if you mark it with the
metal content, does it then also need a trademark or makers name.

Also note that the mark only needs to be permenant enough to reach the end consumer at
the point of purchase. it is legal to mark a work on the packaging or on a sales tag,
rather than stamping the item itself. And the method of marking is not specified, other
than to say it must be legible and reasonably readable by the consumer. A totally
microscopic marking, or one placed where a consumer cannot find it, does not fit the
legal requirements. You can stamp it, of course, and because that's fast and good
looking, is the commercial norm. But engraving it or scribing it, such as signing your
name with a vibrograver, is also entirely legal. So is plain ballpoint pen on a hang
tag, so long as the tag stays on it long enough for the end consumer to get it.

I was unable to find further documentation as to just what constitutes marking an item
with your name. I suspect your full last name may be enough, but don't know for sure,
nor whether two or three initials is sufficient. That's of interest since many
jewelers do exactly that, and have not registered their initials.

A tradmark does not have to be registered for it to be a legal tradmark, but the
stamping law goes further, and DOES require registration for a trademark to fit the
requirements on jewelry marking. This is partly of interest since registering a
trademark seems to require that the trademark already be put in commercial use in order
to file the registration paperwork. Until the application is actually approved, and the
mark registered, a trademark is not yet considered "registered". ie, a pending or filed
registration application is not enough.

I'd suggest continuing to mark your items as you now do, but for these "interstate"
deals, print up some nice little hang tags that also state the metal content as well as
your name. They would then satisfy, fully, the federal marking requirements. If that
store does not believe this, send them this URL, which is one of several places on the
FTC web site that mentions the option of marking with your actual name, rather than a
trademark. It's a copy of a letter written by FTC attorneys in response to someones
inquiry about marking their silver keychain or some such. The FTC site mentions this
option in several other places, including the actual jewelry marking guidelines.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/jewel...rs/neilson.pdf

The pertenant part of that letter states;

With respect to your question regarding registering the charm so you can stamp it with
".925 Sterling," the National Gold and Silver Stamping Act provides, in pertinent part, that an
article bearing a quality mark or stamp indicating that such article is made in whole or in part of
gold or silver shall also contain the U.S. registered trademark or the name of the responsible
party. 15 U.S.C. § 297 (b). Therefore, although you may obtain a registered trademark to place
on your article, you may also stamp the article "Sterling" as long as the name of the responsible
party appears next to the quality mark. If you are interested in obtaining a trademark, you should
call the Trademark Office at (703) 308-9800.


Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe
  #8  
Old February 3rd 05, 05:16 PM
Alan Balmer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 01:31:15 GMT, "New Grad"
wrote:

Thank you for your reply. Mentioning kmart really put my question in a
different perspective. I certainly would never want anyone to think of my
jewelry as being in the same category with kmart jewelry!! You have given
me a new insight.

Don't take that the wrong way. The fact that Kmart uses trademarks
does not make trademarks a bad thing.

P.S. Your glass frog on the silver leaf is really cute.


"vj" wrote in message
.. .
vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad"
:

]Do I have to trademark my makers mark
]before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you
]tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing
about
]how or where to apply for a trademark.

**IANAL** [I Am Not A Lawyer]
the ones i spoke to regarding this last summer said i COULD do it, but
probably did not need to go to that kind of expense. for something
like registering a trademark, an intellectual property lawyer is what
you would need. stores like K-Mart register their trademark, and then
put an R with a circle around it to indicate that it is a registered
trademark. i still may do it eventually, but with a starting cost of
$800 and up, it wasn't worth it to me yet.


--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
[it's a Callahan's thing]
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
"Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results.
I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison



--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting

  #9  
Old February 4th 05, 03:00 AM
Charlie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Does anyone know the relevant law for the UK that covers such things? Like,
if I make a silver necklace I usually put a commercially bought .925 tag on
it, but I want to start stamping my wire worked pieces. Do I have to send
things away to have them done, or can I do them in my own home?

Charlie.

"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...

This thread got me thinking, and dong some web searching. I came up with

a few
interesting points.

The U.S. law regarding precious metal marking does not require you to mark

karat content
on gold or silver quality on silver, etc. If you choose not to mark it,

however, it
cannot then be represented as such. If you DO mark it, such as stamping

it sterling or
a karat mark, then U.S. law requires, if the articles are subject to

federal law, which
means interstate commerce, that the items ALSO be marked with either a

U.S. registered
trademark, OR the name of the maker. If the latter (your name), then you

don't need to
register your name for it to be legal. But the point is that it is

entirely legal to
sell the work in interstate commerce with no marks at all. Only if you

mark it with the
metal content, does it then also need a trademark or makers name.

Also note that the mark only needs to be permenant enough to reach the end

consumer at
the point of purchase. it is legal to mark a work on the packaging or on

a sales tag,
rather than stamping the item itself. And the method of marking is not

specified, other
than to say it must be legible and reasonably readable by the consumer. A

totally
microscopic marking, or one placed where a consumer cannot find it, does

not fit the
legal requirements. You can stamp it, of course, and because that's fast

and good
looking, is the commercial norm. But engraving it or scribing it, such as

signing your
name with a vibrograver, is also entirely legal. So is plain ballpoint

pen on a hang
tag, so long as the tag stays on it long enough for the end consumer to

get it.

I was unable to find further documentation as to just what constitutes

marking an item
with your name. I suspect your full last name may be enough, but don't

know for sure,
nor whether two or three initials is sufficient. That's of interest

since many
jewelers do exactly that, and have not registered their initials.

A tradmark does not have to be registered for it to be a legal tradmark,

but the
stamping law goes further, and DOES require registration for a trademark

to fit the
requirements on jewelry marking. This is partly of interest since

registering a
trademark seems to require that the trademark already be put in commercial

use in order
to file the registration paperwork. Until the application is actually

approved, and the
mark registered, a trademark is not yet considered "registered". ie, a

pending or filed
registration application is not enough.

I'd suggest continuing to mark your items as you now do, but for these

"interstate"
deals, print up some nice little hang tags that also state the metal

content as well as
your name. They would then satisfy, fully, the federal marking

requirements. If that
store does not believe this, send them this URL, which is one of several

places on the
FTC web site that mentions the option of marking with your actual name,

rather than a
trademark. It's a copy of a letter written by FTC attorneys in response

to someones
inquiry about marking their silver keychain or some such. The FTC site

mentions this
option in several other places, including the actual jewelry marking

guidelines.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/jewel...rs/neilson.pdf

The pertenant part of that letter states;

With respect to your question regarding registering the charm so you can

stamp it with
".925 Sterling," the National Gold and Silver Stamping Act provides, in

pertinent part, that an
article bearing a quality mark or stamp indicating that such article is

made in whole or in part of
gold or silver shall also contain the U.S. registered trademark or the

name of the responsible
party. 15 U.S.C. § 297 (b). Therefore, although you may obtain a

registered trademark to place
on your article, you may also stamp the article "Sterling" as long as

the name of the responsible
party appears next to the quality mark. If you are interested in

obtaining a trademark, you should
call the Trademark Office at (703) 308-9800.


Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe



  #10  
Old February 4th 05, 05:30 PM
Ted Frater
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charlie wrote:
Does anyone know the relevant law for the UK that covers such things? Like,
if I make a silver necklace I usually put a commercially bought .925 tag on
it, but I want to start stamping my wire worked pieces. Do I have to send
things away to have them done, or can I do them in my own home?

Charlie.





The law in the uk is as follows.
IF you offer for sale any precious metal object described as silver or
gold etc over the minimun weight it has to have a hallmark thereon and
conform to the minimum quality standards.. It also has to have a makers
mark. you can put this on yourself. the Hall mark is put on by the assay
office. This is not free and if you contact the London one youll get all
the info on prices etc.
If you offer for sale the same precious metal but call it white or
yellow metal you dont need to have it assayed, nor if you make it for
yourself or give it away. Nor can you incorporate other base metals
soldered to the precious ones and have it hall marked. they wont do it.
At no time can you call it silver or gold if you dont have it assayed
and marked..
Thats how electronics and electrical equipment makers incorporate gold
and silver in their products and they dont need to conform to the hall
marking acts.

Its not very economic for one offs unless you can get a high price for it.
hope this helps
 




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