Yoohoo, Mommies!

Cheryl P. wrote:

Lucille wrote:


Why is this so important that Karen needs to scream. Is she getting
upset?


Most people hate having words put in their mouths.

Cheryl


And especially when the words they never said are then used to attack
them for having said what they never said.

As I mentioned last week, in another group where the moderator rules
with an iron fist, she has repeatedly gone back through the archives
trying to find where I said whatever was the subject of the battle, and
been unable to find where I said it, only where I was accused of saying
it. She can't scold me for starting a fight when the evidence shows
that the flame war was in fact started by someone saying "Karen said..."
what the archives prove that Karen never said. (Posts are numbered, so
she knows that I didn't go in and delete the post where I said it.)

And here I'm being attacked for saying "boring" when it was actually
Lucille's word. But, hey, why check for correct attribution when we can
simply launch an attack and lead everyone to believe that it was Karen
who said it?

And, again, I thank Lucille for standing up and taking responsibility
for her own word instead of letting everyone continue to believe that it
was my word.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

Karen C in California wrote:

I stand by my statement that other people's words are often put into my
mouth and no one checks the archives to see whether I was the one who
actually used that word.

That's not actually what I was objecting to. Rather it was your
statements that people purposely put words in your mouth to stir up
trouble for you, to prolong arguments with you, or to get other people
mad at you. I think that you are completely incorrect when you make
those accusations.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Karen C in California wrote:
Cheryl P. wrote:
Lucille wrote:

Why is this so important that Karen needs to scream. Is she getting
upset?

Most people hate having words put in their mouths.


And especially when the words they never said are then used to attack
them for having said what they never said.

As I mentioned last week, in another group where the moderator rules
with an iron fist, she has repeatedly gone back through the archives
trying to find where I said whatever was the subject of the battle, and
been unable to find where I said it, only where I was accused of saying
it. She can't scold me for starting a fight when the evidence shows
that the flame war was in fact started by someone saying "Karen said..."
what the archives prove that Karen never said. (Posts are numbered, so
she knows that I didn't go in and delete the post where I said it.)

You know, if this were happening to me on a regular basis, I would start
rereading my posts very carefully for underlying messages before sending
them. Unless of course, I was looking for plausible deniability.

And here I'm being attacked for saying "boring" when it was actually
Lucille's word. But, hey, why check for correct attribution when we can
simply launch an attack and lead everyone to believe that it was Karen
who said it?

Here again, it looks like you are implying that someone did this on
purpose in order to make you look bad.

And, again, I thank Lucille for standing up and taking responsibility
for her own word instead of letting everyone continue to believe that it
was my word.

But heaven forbid that you take responsibility for the things you said
that led Lucille to use the word "boring." And I will note that both
Lucille and Sheena were offended long before Lucille ever used the word
"boring" in response to your description of how your parents spend their
days.

Why is is always everybody elses fault when you get into these things?

Elizabeth (that's a rhetorical question. I don't need six paragraphs
justifying your victimhood in response)
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Karen C in California wrote:

In what way? White, college-educated men with adequate disposable
income have been buying home computers since the C64 and Trash80. The
30-somethings of the 1970s are today's 60-somethings.

While I haven't found the PRC's specific statistic for
white, college-educated women, for the past several years
men and women have run neck-and-neck for computer usage, so
one would expect that figures would be quite similar, even
though I would expect fewer women in that age group to have
been working outside the home in recent years than men.
Women in this age group report more hours of recreational
computer use than men, on average (according to stats from
the Bureau of Labor Statistics). It's also known that
children are pushing a lot of the computer use by seniors,
providing expertise and even hardware to encourage communication.

Medicare found that 47 percent of medicare users
owned a computer in 2005 (likely it's significantly higher
now).

Note also that "grannies" needn't be over 65. If
you go down to the next age grouping, 50-64 years old,
computer and internet use soars to 70 percent (according
to the most recent PRC data). So, the majority of *those*
grannies are using computers.

I don't think we're just talking about men who've
come out of high tech careers.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Also, you snipped the part where the researchers observed
that computer use is heavily skewed by economic status and race,


Addressed that separately in the next post about the likelihood that
white, college-educated men were professionals who'd used computers at
work before turning 65.

As opposed to my parents, who did NOT use computers at work, are coming
at it as complete novices, and having never really seen the usefulness
of computers in action, don't see the need to buy one now.

The only up-close experience mom had with computers till Neighbor C's
kids bought her one, was Neighbor B (a little older than me), a dingbat
who downloaded whatever attachment was sent to him, and therefore half
the time his computer was out of commission with multiple virii, and
waiting days or weeks for his son to have the time to fix it so that two
days later he could infect it again. A combo of B's never worked right,
and C doesn't know how to do more than e-mail with hers, hardly the
greatest sales pitches in the world!

Quite frankly, Mom's right, when I was there and looked up a transport
schedule online, by the time I googled the URL and clicked through to
get the correct page loaded, it probably would have been faster for her
to just phone the terminal and ask "what do you have arriving around 3
PM?" It was the fun of "playing online" versus an equally-effective
method of picking up the phone (which, in stormy weather, would've been
required anyway, to verify they were running in the storm, information
that wouldn't have been reflected on the year-old schedule on the website).

But, I've owned a computer for more than 20 years, and have been working
on them on a daily basis for more than 25 years, and I can't run my
business without one, so I'm more willing to juggle my budget and my
daily schedule to allow for a computer than someone who's getting along
just fine without one, and really doesn't do anything that she needs a
computer to do.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

"Karen C in California" wrote in message
...
Lucille wrote:

Why is this so important that Karen needs to scream. Is she getting
upset?



No, Karen is just fed up with the number of times that someone else throws
an insult out, and then every subsequent poster attributes it to Karen
without bothering to go back to check who actually said it.

Thank you for publicly taking responsibility for your word. Perhaps now
Sheena will acknowledge that it was one of her fellow seniors calling
seniors "boring" and not one of us young-uns.


--
Karen C - California


Please don't take my responsibility over a word as an apology. I merely
wanted to clear up a misunderstanding.

I took your original message to be demeaning and insulting to senior
citizens, and I still feel that way, but my mother taught me to fight fair.

Dr. Brat wrote:

But I have not seen, as you claim, anyone saying that a
majority of seniors are online. I have seen people questioning your
statistics

No? Go back and read Lucille's and Sheena's statements that almost
every senior they know is online.

And they're not "my" statistics. I was so enamored of how everyone
else's statistics supported my statement that seniors are the age group
"least likely to have a computer" that I never got around to looking for
my own.

Fine, a majority of white, college-educated males are online; I can
readily agree that's likely even without a statistic to back it up. But
my initial statement didn't differentiate between rich white men and
poor black women or anything other than by age group.

All the statistics provided by other people have shown that, in fact,
just as I said initially, seniors are the age group "least likely to
have a computer". Even the highest number for "over 65", not broken
down by race/income/education, proves that only a minority of seniors
have computers.

We can break down statistics any way you want, into as minuscule
categories as you like: 100% of Canadian seniors named Sheena who dub
themselves Lucretia are online. 100% of seniors over the age of 80 who
are my parents are not online. But taken as a whole, my initial
statement stands, that the over 65 age group is "least likely to have a
computer" and no one has provided any statistic to prove that statement
wrong. Lucille's attempt to prove it wrong served only to provide the
statistic that 22% of seniors are online, versus a much higher
percentage of under 65s, which is exactly what I said it would be: over
65 "least likely".

Anything about "a majority of seniors" versus "half of seniors" versus
"a third of seniors" versus "22/29/35% of seniors" came in after I made
my statement which still has not been proven wrong.

In Sheena and Lucille's social circles, computer use is apparently
significantly higher than among my family and their social circles.
Good for them. However, the 22% statistic offered up by Lucille proves
that it's not "my crowd" who are the aberration, because the 1-in-5 I'm
seeing both among my family and my parents' neighbors is precisely borne
out by that 22% (+/- margin of error).


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

Karen C in California wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Also, you snipped the part where the researchers observed
that computer use is heavily skewed by economic status and race,

Addressed that separately in the next post about the likelihood that
white, college-educated men were professionals who'd used computers at
work before turning 65.

You addressed it separately while making it look like it wasn't what I
was referring to when I spoke of a majority.

As opposed to my parents, who did NOT use computers at work, are coming
at it as complete novices, and having never really seen the usefulness
of computers in action, don't see the need to buy one now.


But you're extrapolating from two data points without any evidence that
they are representative of their sets. Neither my step mother nor my
father used computers at work, but both use them now to do their
banking, some shopping, and to stay in touch with their kids. My father
is an 88 year old college educated white male and his wife is a 78 year
old college educated white female. I don't think they're representative
of their class, either, but they balance out your parents and invalidate
your point.

And, by the way, my mother, who was a stay at home mom until she was 50,
bought a PC junior way back when just because she could. But that says
nothing at all about the propensity of 50 year olds in the 1970s to own
computers.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Dr. Brat wrote:
You know, if this were happening to me on a regular basis, I would start
rereading my posts very carefully for underlying messages before sending
them.



You mean reading them looking for any little thing that someone with a
bone to pick might be able to twist around in order to pick that bone?

I'll do that on legal documents, but internet postings aren't that
important for me to look at for three hours to see what someone with an
ulterior motive could possibly read into a simple declarative sentence.

--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Note also that "grannies" needn't be over 65. If
you go down to the next age grouping, 50-64 years old,
computer and internet use soars to 70 percent (according
to the most recent PRC data). So, the majority of *those*
grannies are using computers.


Absolutely, but my apparently inflammatory statement specified I was
discussing computer use "over 65", and not the 40-year-old who is
biologically a grandmother.


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

Finished 7/27/08 - MLI Christmas Visit

WIP: Oriental Kimono (Janlynn), MLI The Teacher (gift to
the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/