Entry door again?

Last week I posted a question regarding a diamond beveled pattern insert I
am making for my entry door. The insert will measure approximately 20" X 60"
and is primarily 4" x 7" beveled diamonds. I originally planned to place the
insert between two sheets of tempered glass. Several folks scoffed at my
idea and caused me to see the light. Since then I have read a more
articles on large panels and have no intention of doing a laminate/ sandwich
insert. My question now is what to use to stiffen it? I am not pleased with
the looks I have seen with lead came and zinc stiffeners. What about using
zinc came or brass came? Are there any pitfalls to be aware of with either
of those?

Thanks,

Rog



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"Roger Jensen" wrote in message
m...
Last week I posted a question regarding a diamond beveled pattern insert I
am making for my entry door. The insert will measure approximately 20" X
60"
and is primarily 4" x 7" beveled diamonds. I originally planned to place
the
insert between two sheets of tempered glass. Several folks scoffed at my
idea and caused me to see the light. Since then I have read a more
articles on large panels and have no intention of doing a laminate/
sandwich
insert. My question now is what to use to stiffen it? I am not pleased
with
the looks I have seen with lead came and zinc stiffeners. What about using
zinc came or brass came? Are there any pitfalls to be aware of with either
of those?

Thanks,

Rog

Using either brass or zinc will give you more rigidity than you will get
from lead. Lead is easier to work with, IMO. Brass, while very pretty, is
absolutely horrible to cut. It will dull any blade or cutoff wheel you
have. I built 15 windows for a church a couple of years ago, with a 7"x 4"
diamond pattern out of brass came. Thought I'd NEVER get done with them,
swore I'd never ever, ever, do anything with brass again. Doing a geometric
pattern as you are, if it were me, I'd go with zinc. No matter what you
select, you'll still have to putty the came.

On a side note, recently, I've been seeing some zinc came in doors where
the zinc is polished, almost to the shine of chrome. How are they doing
that? Does anybody know the technique?

"Moonraker" wrote in message
.. .

"Roger Jensen" wrote in message
m...
Last week I posted a question regarding a diamond beveled pattern insert
I
am making for my entry door. The insert will measure approximately 20" X
60"
and is primarily 4" x 7" beveled diamonds. I originally planned to place
the
insert between two sheets of tempered glass. Several folks scoffed at
my
idea and caused me to see the light. Since then I have read a more
articles on large panels and have no intention of doing a laminate/
sandwich
insert. My question now is what to use to stiffen it? I am not pleased
with
the looks I have seen with lead came and zinc stiffeners. What about
using
zinc came or brass came? Are there any pitfalls to be aware of with
either
of those?

Thanks,

Rog

Using either brass or zinc will give you more rigidity than you will get
from lead. Lead is easier to work with, IMO. Brass, while very pretty,
is
absolutely horrible to cut. It will dull any blade or cutoff wheel you
have. I built 15 windows for a church a couple of years ago, with a 7"x
4"
diamond pattern out of brass came. Thought I'd NEVER get done with them,
swore I'd never ever, ever, do anything with brass again. Doing a
geometric
pattern as you are, if it were me, I'd go with zinc. No matter what you
select, you'll still have to putty the came.

On a side note, recently, I've been seeing some zinc came in doors where
the zinc is polished, almost to the shine of chrome. How are they doing
that? Does anybody know the technique?



Electroplate Nickel, and "they" are also doing it in Brass. Have been for a
while, Peachtree doors and Therma Tru are both using plated zinc inserts.

"Javahut" wrote in message
...
On a side note, recently, I've been seeing some zinc came in doors
where
the zinc is polished, almost to the shine of chrome. How are they doing
that? Does anybody know the technique?



Electroplate Nickel, and "they" are also doing it in Brass. Have been for
a
while, Peachtree doors and Therma Tru are both using plated zinc inserts.


Is this came purchased already electroplated? Surely they aren't
electroplating a finished panel?

Electroplate Nickel, and "they" are also doing it in Brass. Have been
for
a
while, Peachtree doors and Therma Tru are both using plated zinc
inserts.


Is this came purchased already electroplated? Surely they aren't
electroplating a finished panel?

The Therma-Tru windows are the pieces I have looked at recently, and they
were plated after being built.......
Why not? Solder a couple of rings to the outside edge to hang them from,
use copper wire, hang them from the carrier, dip in the tank, etc. when it
is done they are rinsed in clear cold water, wiped down with a chamois
cloth, cut the loops off and insulate. Couldn't be easier. in theory.
They are not cemented, nor did I see enough room in the metal to add any,
very tight tolerances, hence the double roll glass, Spectrum and Pilkington.

Is this came purchased already electroplated? Surely they aren't
electroplating a finished panel?
Yup, they sure do. You need to drill some small holes in the
edge came so they can put little hookes or wires through it to suspend
it in the chemical tank. I had some panels electroplated a while back.
I was told, before hand at the time, they would NOT plate panels if
there was any zinc or putty in them as that would spoil their
chemicals. Not sure if that's the way it works in all shops or only at
this particular shop. The colours they had available were chrome,
brass ("gold"), black and dark brown. You putty the panel after the
plating and there are no special tricks you need to do because of the
plating although I wouldn't use too stiff a brush. The plating does
not affect the glass in any way unless you use irridiant (spelling?)
glass, the funky mother of pearl kinda looking stuff, as the chemicals
do "bake" onto that type of glass and scratching if off is a tedious
and time consuming process.
Plating looks real nice and one of the things I like about it is that
there's no longer any exposed lead as all of it is totally
*encapsulated* (the proper buzz word) and that could be an important
sales feature.
Plating shops usually charge a flat rate, whatever fits in their
chemical tank for $125~200 (in this area, SW Ontario, any way). You
might want to ask them about the maximum size panels their tank holds,
not much point bringing a 6 foot sidelight if their tank's only 5
feet. Shops are listed in the Yellow Pages under "plating."
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

"Javahut" wrote in message
...


Electroplate Nickel, and "they" are also doing it in Brass. Have been
for
a
while, Peachtree doors and Therma Tru are both using plated zinc
inserts.


Is this came purchased already electroplated? Surely they aren't
electroplating a finished panel?

The Therma-Tru windows are the pieces I have looked at recently, and they
were plated after being built.......
Why not? Solder a couple of rings to the outside edge to hang them from,
use copper wire, hang them from the carrier, dip in the tank, etc. when
it
is done they are rinsed in clear cold water, wiped down with a chamois
cloth, cut the loops off and insulate. Couldn't be easier. in theory.
They are not cemented, nor did I see enough room in the metal to add any,
very tight tolerances, hence the double roll glass, Spectrum and
Pilkington.



Damned new-fangled technology, anyway! What'll they be thinking up next?
;)

While it is true that zinc is stronger the lead. The problem faced
with windows is design,craftsmanship and location. Depending on the
above items you may need rebar. MANY zinc window bow, solder joints
break etc. because of lack of support. Many builders have fallen under
the same misconception as you. I have rebuilt many of them.

"vic" wrote in message
om...
While it is true that zinc is stronger the lead. The problem faced
with windows is design,craftsmanship and location. Depending on the
above items you may need rebar. MANY zinc window bow, solder joints
break etc. because of lack of support. Many builders have fallen under
the same misconception as you. I have rebuilt many of them.

I agree that design and craftsmanship have a large part to play in how a
window/panel performs over the years. In the years that I've specialized in
on-site repair and restoration of residental entryway art glass (and bath
windows, too), I've seen just about any and all combinations of metals.
But if the putty used in the window fails, it doesn't make any difference
what metals are used.

yeah, so construct it with copper foil and incorporate srongline
reinforcing, even steel rebar if necessary, and you don't have to rely on
the putty failing!!! m (i just know this will get off track on the issues
of came vs. foil but i gots to say what gots to be said.)


But if the putty used in the window fails, it doesn't make any difference
what metals are used.