Needlework Proficiency Levels

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:14:24 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:

It's just my restless mind postulating and pondering. If I had ten
million dollars and could start a needlework school, what would it be
like? What would be the curriculum and how would you separate it to a
coherent whole?

Time is not of concern in this imaginary school. Nor is age. One could
start at 7 or 77.

So often the term needlework is used in a narrow sense. My sense is
that, although a technique can be called needlework, and you can master
a single technique, that to be truly a "master needleworker" (and I
don't qualify for the status), you should be well-versed in all the
disciplines. Not a master at all of them, just well-versed.

"Well versed" can mean different levels of ability to different
people. Could you define well-versed. Would it be that you can
stitch everything passably well (you can make something useful and
fairly pretty, something you wouldn't be ashamed of showing to
others), but not perfectly stitched? Sort of a "jack of all trades"
level in needlework? Or are you thinking of a higher level?

I'm noticing some of the responses are what I imagined they'd be: stuck
in a single mindset. Which is why I've been putting off the discussion
because I didn't want to offend, and I know how some of you look at this.

It's an imaginary playworld - if you could have all the time in the
world - no obstacles - and you could pursue your dream. That's all.

I am also imagining we magically get perfect sight so the finer work
is made easier to see. (I don't think I could do darning without
better sight than I have.) Oh, and hands, wrists, and elbows that are
not in too much pain to stitch. If I'm going to dream it may as well
be really good.

I do agree that there needs to be a stopping off point to pursue a
"chosen love" technique, such as canvas. I had it in the text at one
point, but took it out because it created "other" problems on down the
road. I didn't quite know how to "stop". g

I understand the learning many forms thing completely. After all, how
does one choose the most fun needlework if one doesn't dabble in many
forms first? How would you choose a new technique when your long
loved technique becomes boring or too difficult due to vision or hand
movement problems unless you have dabbled?

There's already guilds for certain disciplines such as canvas
embroidery, knitting, crochet, lace. I ripped some of the criteria from
their own guidelines. I pondered including knitting and crochet, which
is also needlework, but in the end left it out. No particular reason.
I do both, but wanted to concentrate on "threaded needles".

I'm not trying to force a point of view. I thought it would be fun.

Dianne

I think it's a fun thought.
Debra in VA

tennhick had some very interesting things
to say about Needlework Proficiency Levels:

fwiw, in real colleges and universities, people who are enrolled in fine arts
or music programs aren't expected to be masters of every media or instrument
nor are those who go into 'science' expected to know everything about quantum
physics or molecular biology before they're awarded a degree. IOW, I see
nothing wrong in granting novice or even intermediate status to those talented
people who have specialized in one type of needlework. Also, perhaps you might
want to consider adding 'apprentice' or some other designation for people who
are willing to learn new skills in areas they haven't tackled before.

Dianne's always had a very strong objection to people actually
sticking to what they like. To hear her tell it, "real" needleworkers
do everything and don't *have* preferences (and certainly don't like
doing (gasp) *counted*).

--
Seanette Blaylock
"You attribute perfect rationality to the whole of humanity, which has
to be one of the most misguided assumptions ever." - Alan Krueger in NANAE
[make obvious correction to address to send e-mail]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:46:32 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:

Debra wrote:
Like you, I'd be stuck at the novice level of the program today for
lack of fulfilling one or two points, while at the same time having
achieved many points of each higher level.
Debra in VA


And those "one or two points" would be???
Dianne

Well, I don't remember ever doing coral stitch before, although I've
used many more surface embroidery stitches than the other three you
listed for a novice to know. And I'm sure I haven't used herringbone
while hand sewing as I've never done applique with decorative stitches
but that's the only way I think I have seen herringbone used in
sewing. I will admit that I got out my stitch dictionaries to look up
stitch names just to be sure which stitches they were. I know how to
do more stitches than the ones I know the names of. Of course while I
was looking up the ones I was checking on, I also found a few I'd like
to try.

Oh and, I am quite willing to say I can thread a needle with all the
fibers I have dealt with so far, but there are others (like untwisted
silk) that I've never used so I can't really say I can thread a needle
with all fibers. (But I'm just splitting hairs for fun here.)

I've actually printed your original post just to see how many things I
could check off as something learned and how many things I lack. It's
been a fun sort of exercise and I may well try to do a few of those
things I am lacking in.
Debra in VA

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
Needlework is a constantly improving process. Things you do in one
technique help you in another technique. One needn't study satin stitch
for ten years to become a master at it. Unless, of course, you only did
it 50 times in those 10 years. grin

Each of us has areas that we love best, pursue the hardest. Nothing
wrong with that. I was just thinking in larger terms.

Dianne

Absolutely Dianne - as one who has been wielding a needle for over 45 years
(I'm 52) I think the criteria are challenging but easily meet for someone
who is interested in needlework as a broad medium - certainly those who are
dedicated to cross stitch ( cringe as I say this) have a long way to go
BUT... as you said earlier in these posts "JUST REMEMBER: It's a needlework
school, not a cross stitch school, or a sewing school. It's a TOTAL school.
So, if you don't want a total education, you don't go there. huge grin"

I rank (IMHO) at "working towards Advanced". I teach Canvas - traditional
and creative (first love) raised embroidery, stumpwork, crewel, freestyle,
Mountmellick, silk ribbon, ( my strongest loathing) Brazilian, shadow work,
woollen (OZ style), counted thread work such as Hardanger, pulled, drawn,
cross-stitch, Myreschka, Schwalm, Gold work etc.
While creative embroidery on Canvas as a ground fabric is my forte, I love
most counted techniques, bit find cross stitch very limiting - too
monotonous, I guess. Then again when I was knitting a picture pattern
knitted in from a graph (think Kaffe Fassett) Aran pattern or very fine lace
was essential. Have not quite a "been there done that " attitude but
almost - if you stop growing/learning you might as well stop altogether.

Hope you all have a very happy New Year,

Morilyn
in hot sweltering Brisbane Aust.

"Debra" wrote:

And I'm sure I haven't used herringbone
while hand sewing as I've never done applique with decorative stitches
but that's the only way I think I have seen herringbone used in
sewing.

Actually I've used herringbone for hems. It works particularly well when
the edge might fray and you don't want to use seam binding. I've also used
it to hold interfacing in place on tailored jackets.

Lucille

Seanette Blaylock wrote:
Dianne's always had a very strong objection to people actually
sticking to what they like. To hear her tell it, "real" needleworkers
do everything and don't *have* preferences (and certainly don't like
doing (gasp) *counted*).

That's simply not true. I do - and love - counted embroidery. There are
*many* types of "counted" embroidery.

And yes, I think people have preferences. They find a type, technique,
artform (modern, magical, folk, classic, native American, et al) and do
that more than anything else. I think that's perfectly "normal".

However, Debra had an interesting comment that pretty much sums up much
of my personal point of view: [paraphrased] If you don't dabble, how
will you know what you will ultimately like?

sigh You continually, through the years, misinterpret my words.
However, I will take the blame, because often times I don't say what I
mean to say.

Dianne

Herringbone, besides being a very versatile embroidery stitch, is used
in sewing - and in modern times you may know it by another term: catch
stitching. It's used to keep seams from raveling and sew them down at
the same time; as decorative stitching in tailoring, and to stitch down
hems that have a lining over them.

Coral stitch: used in drawn thread, needlelace, and as a surface stitch
- most notably in Schwalm.

Believe me when I tell you that I am not anywhere *near* the advanced
stage. :-)

Dianne

Debra wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:46:32 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:


Debra wrote:

Like you, I'd be stuck at the novice level of the program today for
lack of fulfilling one or two points, while at the same time having
achieved many points of each higher level.
Debra in VA


And those "one or two points" would be???
Dianne


Well, I don't remember ever doing coral stitch before, although I've
used many more surface embroidery stitches than the other three you
listed for a novice to know. And I'm sure I haven't used herringbone
while hand sewing as I've never done applique with decorative stitches
but that's the only way I think I have seen herringbone used in
sewing. I will admit that I got out my stitch dictionaries to look up
stitch names just to be sure which stitches they were. I know how to
do more stitches than the ones I know the names of. Of course while I
was looking up the ones I was checking on, I also found a few I'd like
to try.

Oh and, I am quite willing to say I can thread a needle with all the
fibers I have dealt with so far, but there are others (like untwisted
silk) that I've never used so I can't really say I can thread a needle
with all fibers. (But I'm just splitting hairs for fun here.)

I've actually printed your original post just to see how many things I
could check off as something learned and how many things I lack. It's
been a fun sort of exercise and I may well try to do a few of those
things I am lacking in.
Debra in VA

Dianne Lewandowski said
However, Debra had an interesting comment that pretty much sums up much
of my personal point of view: [paraphrased] If you don't dabble, how
will you know what you will ultimately like?

rank me as a sub-dabbler grade 1 ;-)

Although I appreciate the time and talent it takes to do counted cross stitch,
I've found that I have a really, really hard time following charts, plus my
stitches, despite my best efforts, are always a bit 'off.' I've bought the
Anchor books for crewel and free style embroidery and a few other stitching
encyclopedias and am working my way through 'em to increase my repertoire. A 3-
D style which goes by many names 'talks' to me more than others that I've seen
discussed here.

I'm finding that even though it can be more than a tad boring to do satin,
couching, or split stitches, I'm happiest with solid fills. This may or may not
be due to the fact that I'm still using 'cheap' fabrics which aren't
interesting by themselves or it could be that the designs I'm practising on
'require' solid fills.

In any case, I'm enjoying the discussions here.

Anne

Morilyn & Stan opined thusly:


"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
Needlework is a constantly improving process. Things you do in one
technique help you in another technique. One needn't study satin
stitch for ten years to become a master at it. Unless, of course, you
only did it 50 times in those 10 years. grin

Each of us has areas that we love best, pursue the hardest. Nothing
wrong with that. I was just thinking in larger terms.

Dianne

Absolutely Dianne - as one who has been wielding a needle for over 45
years (I'm 52) I think the criteria are challenging but easily meet for
someone who is interested in needlework as a broad medium - certainly
those who are dedicated to cross stitch ( cringe as I say this) have a
long way to go BUT... as you said earlier in these posts "JUST REMEMBER:
It's a needlework school, not a cross stitch school, or a sewing
school. It's a TOTAL school. So, if you don't want a total education,
you don't go there. huge grin"

I rank (IMHO) at "working towards Advanced". I teach Canvas -
traditional and creative (first love) raised embroidery, stumpwork,
crewel, freestyle, Mountmellick, silk ribbon, ( my strongest loathing)
Brazilian, shadow work, woollen (OZ style), counted thread work such as
Hardanger, pulled, drawn, cross-stitch, Myreschka, Schwalm, Gold work
etc. While creative embroidery on Canvas as a ground fabric is my forte,
I love most counted techniques, bit find cross stitch very limiting -
too monotonous, I guess. Then again when I was knitting a picture
pattern knitted in from a graph (think Kaffe Fassett) Aran pattern or
very fine lace was essential. Have not quite a "been there done that "
attitude but almost - if you stop growing/learning you might as well
stop altogether.

Hope you all have a very happy New Year,

Morilyn
in hot sweltering Brisbane Aust.





I'm begining to think I need to head waaaaaaay down south and sit at your
knee for a while.

--
Regards
--Anne

Blogging to be found at http://www.emptycauldron.com/weblog/musings.html


Remove DIESPAMBOTDIE to e-mail

From: tennhick

...... Although I appreciate the time and talent it takes to do counted cross
stitch,
I've found that I have a really, really hard time following charts, plus my
stitches, despite my best efforts, are always a bit 'off.' ......... In any
case, I'm enjoying the discussions here.

I know that one of the things Dianne urges -- and me too -- is for people to
try other types of needlework. We do tend to get a bit pushy at times,
probably because we have found that knowing how to do many different types of
needlework (not necessarily well, just being familiar with them) really does
help us to be better stitchers when we are working on whichever type of
needlework happens our favourite.
Because we are always urging others -- quite vociferously some times -- to
"push the enveloope" of their comfort zone, we tend to make people think that
we are advocating a "MUST DO" philosophy. In a way we ARE doing just that I
suppose. I have difficulty understanding why people won't even attempt
something new. As Dianne said "...If you don't dabble, how
will you know what you will ultimately like?..." The thrill of trying
something new is sort of a siren song for MOI, even if I only have an "el
cheapo" little kit.
If you don't like the new technique, that's fine -- but until you try it you
will never know. Heck, even if you don't want to try something new, that's
fine too. Just be aware that you are missing out on some *really wonderful*
stuff :-). CiaoMeow ^;;^
..


PAX, Tia Mary ^;;^ Queen of Kitties
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their
WHISKERS!!
Nothing is complete without a few cat hairs!