OT SS going to the source

I am puzzled. I know this is an OT thread (and one I usually jump over
because of its content) but having just read the Quilting Newsgroup
and come out of it with a smile at all the good feelings that abound
there, I wonder why the Needlework group seems to have a continuous
shadow of sniping going on, which somehow leaves an unpleasant taste,
and detracts from all the pleasant postings.

Was this the reason why I opted out from the Group the first time
round. I wonder.

Sally

You'll see there are just a few die-hards left in this argument. Those
of us who haven't a clue what the fight is about are ignoring the
thread. It will pass. As long as it is marked OT, just let it ride
(although it would be nice if the whole Ayn Rand thread would get
renamed--hint, hint!)

Sally Swindells wrote:
I am puzzled. I know this is an OT thread (and one I usually jump over
because of its content) but having just read the Quilting Newsgroup
and come out of it with a smile at all the good feelings that abound
there, I wonder why the Needlework group seems to have a continuous
shadow of sniping going on, which somehow leaves an unpleasant taste,
and detracts from all the pleasant postings.

Was this the reason why I opted out from the Group the first time
round. I wonder.

--
Brenda

Any you might note, Mirjam, that I am looking and looking to read that
same fact somewhere, but since I can't find it, I can only conclude that
you made it up.

Elizabeth

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Ps Elizabeth ,, you might note that i keep saying that i have READ
IT , but don`t remmber where , When collects notes from people one can
writes ,, according to Her ,,,,,,,, and i am true to my words
according to my reading somewhere , this is the fact, i remember .
mirjam


Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

It has to do with the fact , many people now understand , that
Anti-Semitism is a social sickness , that endangers not only Jews ,

Anti-semitism is not the real issue. Xenophobia and chauvinism of any
kind, including anti-semitism, are social sicknesses, but you can't see
beyond your own skin, can you?


but other social structures as well , It has to do with the fact ,
that We discussed or rather Disagreed about the meaning of a certain
writer ,,,, that was the connection , and i just went on with my line
of thoughts,

My disagreeing with you about whether Ayn Rand was a Nazi has nothing to
do with anti-semitism. Indeed, it is quite the opposite, for you are
the one attacking a Jewish author and I am the one defending her.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*




--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Don`t worry Elizabeth ,,,, She wasn`t Jewish ,,, not anyone who fled
Russia in 1926 , and who became a Writer was Jewish , There were Many
other Nationalities who left Russia and became writers ..

Yes, Mirjam, there were many other nationalities who left Russia and
became writers, but Ayn Rand, nee Alissa Rosenbaum, was Jewish.

Anti-semitism is not the real issue. Xenophobia and chauvinism of any
kind, including anti-semitism, are social sicknesses, but you can't see
beyond your own skin, can you?

May i quote Koffe Anan on this ,,,, that During WW2 , not all voictims
were Jews , but Every Jew was a victim ,,,, Yes i DO see beyond my own
skin ,,, not that People with your opinions , make it easy for me /us
,, to really try and trust this world again.

What opinion is that, Mirjam? That we should denounce injustice against
all people, not just Jews? Is that the opinion I have that makes it
difficult for you to trust? I'm sorry.

My disagreeing with you about whether Ayn Rand was a Nazi has nothing to
do with anti-semitism. Indeed, it is quite the opposite, for you are
the one attacking a Jewish author and I am the one defending her.

Now you are just throwing in some Rhetorics ,

No. I am countering your rhetoric, which you threw in because you have
no evidence that Ayn Rand spent time in prison. In fact, I can't find
any evidence of *anyone* having been imprisoned in the US for Nazi
propaganda. Can you?

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

I can remember when you told me YOU KNOW my grandparents will be
ashamed of me since You walked the streets of Warsaw , and other times

You can't tell the difference between opinion and fact? So it's your
opinion that Ayn Rand spent time in jail rather than a fact? Ok.
Perhaps you twisted something you read about Ayn Rand (like the fact
that she testified before the House Committee on Un-American Activities)
just as you twisted this quote of mine and have been throwing it back at
me incorrectly ever since:

@ Those people fought for something real, Mirjam. I have stood on the
@ ground where they died, daily walked the streets where they lived. Your
@ battles here are so petty in comparison that it shames me to see you
@ speak of it that way. I am sorry for you.

You'll note that I said nothing of your grandparents here. Were they
Polish Jews, your grandparents, Mirjam? Nor, did I say anything about
anyone being ashamed of you. But you forget that don't you, because it
suits you better to accuse me of saying something I didn't say.

when you said false things about me ....

Name me one false claim that I have made about you, Mirjam.

and various times you joined
attacks and things that other people said ....

How convenient that you have forgotten the times when people said false
things about you and I defended you. It must be quite a burden to never
remember the good about anyone.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:45:27 GMT, Lucretia Borgia
wrote:

I am puzzled. I know this is an OT thread (and one I usually jump over
because of its content) but having just read the Quilting Newsgroup
and come out of it with a smile at all the good feelings that abound
there, I wonder why the Needlework group seems to have a continuous
shadow of sniping going on, which somehow leaves an unpleasant taste,
and detracts from all the pleasant postings.

Was this the reason why I opted out from the Group the first time
round. I wonder.

Sally

I don't see what bothers you frankly. Since this thread starting
going where it has, I just haven't read it. It's an option we all
have.
and which I have chosen. I only read today because I was in a hurry
and it came up as the next unread message

There are discussions and there are acrimonious discussions, they all
have their place. I think it is prissy to decide "I don't like being
here, in general, because some people are being nasty - or what I
perceive as nasty" - live and let live.
Acrimonious discussions have their place? not in my relaxing time.

It's like saying when I play bridge at the club, I should not go
because it seems when the going is competitive married couples who
play together are often very cutting with each other. When that
happens at my table, I don't leave, I merely tell them to STFU,
(but you don't just sit back and accept it)
it
always works, but I am damned sure I am not going to lose out on their
account.
I just found it a pity that the smile I had when I started to read
the group's posts was wiped off by an unpleasant exchange. I have no
intention of reading this thread again, just feel that it is sad that
it is here, especially at this time, and that it detracts from the
other helpful and friendly posts.

Nuff said

Sally

Don`t worry Elizabeth ,,,, She wasn`t Jewish ,,, not anyone who fled
Russia in 1926 , and who became a Writer was Jewish , There were Many
other Nationalities who left Russia and became writers ..
mirjam

Anti-semitism is not the real issue. Xenophobia and chauvinism of any
kind, including anti-semitism, are social sicknesses, but you can't see
beyond your own skin, can you?
May i quote Koffe Anan on this ,,,, that During WW2 , not all voictims
were Jews , but Every Jew was a victim ,,,, Yes i DO see beyond my own
skin ,,, not that People with your opinions , make it easy for me /us
,, to really try and trust this world again.

My disagreeing with you about whether Ayn Rand was a Nazi has nothing to
do with anti-semitism. Indeed, it is quite the opposite, for you are
the one attacking a Jewish author and I am the one defending her.
Now you are just throwing in some Rhetorics ,
mirjam

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

I can remember when you told me YOU KNOW my grandparents will be
ashamed of me since You walked the streets of Warsaw , and other times
when you said false things about me ....and various times you joined
attacks and things that other people said ....
false claims, in claiming that I have written false things about you.
But I could write that you were imprisoned in the US for Nazi propaganda
if you like. Shall I do that?
Al my documents from Boston can show you what i did there ,, i was
there with my family , and studied in BU ,,,
mirjam
Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Not at all , it is quite Normal , when i discuss something with some
people , and have the opportunity to discuss it with others , that
might know More than me , to do so ,,,,
mirjam

Oh my...you have really gotten desperate.


On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 04:32:45 GMT, (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen)
opined:

For the literary interpretation ,,, we spent last night with a group
of friends , of whom 3 happened to be Immigrants from the USA , all 3
University graoduates[ 2 from Ivy league Universities ] i asked their
opinions , All 3 called Ayn Rand`s Literature Nazi , [ so did the
others] and all 3 said they Heard /read , while they were students in
the USA , that she was imprisoned for Nazi Propaganda , during WW2..
mirjam

escape wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:45:20 GMT, "Dr. Brat" opined:


escape wrote:


She was a fiction writer, in case you didn't know. So, based on what you write
about her fiction, Anne Rice is a vampire supporter.

She was much more than a fiction writer. Calling Ayn Rand a fiction
writer is like calling George Orwell a fiction writer. Both of them
have significant bodies of political work that is not fiction.

I do concede to that, but I somehow believe that Mirjam has not read any of her
political essays, or commentaries at the age of 17, or any age. At best, I may
believe she read Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged.

I read _The Fountainhead_, _Atlas Shrugged_ and _Anthem_. I find it
hard to believe that anyone who actually read Rand's work would either
forget which items she read or would characterize any of it, but
particularly _Anthem_, as Nazi. However, my quibble is not with her
literary interpretation, but rather with the assertion that Rand spent
time in a US jail.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*






Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

Ps Elizabeth ,, you might note that i keep saying that i have READ
IT , but don`t remmber where , When collects notes from people one can
writes ,, according to Her ,,,,,,,, and i am true to my words
according to my reading somewhere , this is the fact, i remember .
mirjam

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
It has to do with the fact , many people now understand , that
Anti-Semitism is a social sickness , that endangers not only Jews ,

Anti-semitism is not the real issue. Xenophobia and chauvinism of any
kind, including anti-semitism, are social sicknesses, but you can't see
beyond your own skin, can you?

but other social structures as well , It has to do with the fact ,
that We discussed or rather Disagreed about the meaning of a certain
writer ,,,, that was the connection , and i just went on with my line
of thoughts,

My disagreeing with you about whether Ayn Rand was a Nazi has nothing to
do with anti-semitism. Indeed, it is quite the opposite, for you are
the one attacking a Jewish author and I am the one defending her.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*