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Very OT - Fahrenheit 9/11



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 28th 04, 03:44 PM
Kandice Seeber
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And don't assume that no one wants to talk politics just because one or two
people post that they don't wish to. People, if you don't want to hear
about this movie or talk about it, ignore or killfile the thread. It's
easy.

Personally, I am still not sure if I am going to see the movie - for similar
reasons as Sooz. I support many of Mr. Moore's opinions, respect him as an
activist, but don't know if I can handle the stress of the content of the
movie. I do however plan to purchase tickets, even if I don't go. Becuase
I support his stance on things, and want to "vote" with my checkbook, since
that's pretty much all the current government understands. Money.

I usually go to the movies on the big screen to be entertained, and to
escape reality. This is not the venue of choice for me to watch political
commentary. I would rather watch it on television in private and in small
sections or listen to it on the radio. That's just me. I'll probably rent
it or buy it when it comes out on video.


--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


Patti,

We do have free speech here but let's face it - if you get more than two
people in a common setting, there are going to be political diagreements.
Life is too damned short to try to get someone to change their personal
beliefs so why bother? It takes so much energy - and for what?

Don't leave because we don't want to talk politics. Stay - tell us about
your current beading projects, your children's latest stunt, your
grandmother's favorite cookie recipe. If you really have the urge to

discuss
politics, there are forums where there are LOTS of people just waiting to
try to change YOUR mind.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Beadseeker" wrote in message
...

I believe that we'd all be better off if we left politics off this

board,
even if prefaced by OT. Let's stick to beads! PLEEZE


You know, I think I'd be bettter off by leaving this board.I was under
the
impression that we had free speech in this country, but I guess not on
this
board.
goodbye.
Patti




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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  #22  
Old June 28th 04, 04:03 PM
Cheryl
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I support many of Mr. Moore's opinions, respect him as an
activist, but don't know if I can handle the stress of the content of the
movie.

With the exception of the very short reference to the towers bombing, and
several "graphic" war scenes about 2/3 of the way through the movie... and a
mother crying over her lost son..

the rest of the movie is actually - entertaining... some of his points are made
with humor.... and audience was laughing out loud.

Some of the movie is SAD - no doubt --
but - it is nicely balanced with other things...
There are times I would have liked to shout out my opinion of Bush -and I
suspect many others felt the same.
-- I think Moore's use of comic relief was intentional -- because he knew how
mad the movie would make people -- and knew therre had to be some "emotional"
release in it for watchers...

I was not sure I wanted to go --
mom wanted to see it - and would not go to a movie by herself I am certain....
so I agreed to go -- and I'm glad I went...
Cheryl
DRAGON BEADS
Flameworked beads and glass
http://www.dragonbeads.com/

  #23  
Old June 28th 04, 04:09 PM
Beadseeker
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No reason to leave, Patti - your post was really just fine, IMO

Kandice,
I appreciate your support.
Like most people, it really annoys me when someone tells me what to do.
I agree about the humor in the movie, it's hilarious, most of the movie is
very funny.
Patti
  #24  
Old June 28th 04, 09:57 PM
Karleen/Vibrant Jewels
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"Jan G" wrote in message
link.net...
There has to be a change or we will loose all of our rights.


I'm much more alarmed at activist judges that are creating legislation
instead of judging based on law. Many people applaud when they think that
the "right" is losing religious ground, they won't be so happy when the same
standard is applied to them. The problem is that there is nothing to curb
these judges, unless Congress steps in and makes new laws, which is not
likely to happen. These judges are not elected and are not accountable to
us. That ought to freak you out a lot more than allegations about an elected
official.

I know I said not to talk politics... sheesh it's contagious!


  #25  
Old June 28th 04, 11:16 PM
Lisa
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vj wrote:

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karleen/Vibrant Jewels"
:

]I'm much more alarmed at activist judges that are creating legislation
]instead of judging based on law. Many people applaud when they think that
]the "right" is losing religious ground, they won't be so happy when the same
]standard is applied to them.

sorry - i couldn't disagree more.


Newbie here, I really hate to introduce myself on a
controversial thread, but I can't help it. From what
I've seen, an "activist judge" is a judge who makes a
decision that those on the right don't like.

Lisa
  #26  
Old June 29th 04, 01:45 AM
Beadbimbo
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Lol. Me either. I haven't seen any of his other movies, but read about
some big inaccuracies with *Roger and Me* and *Bowling for Columbine*, so I
don't think I could take anything he does seriously as a documentary.

I'm with Kandice on this one. I only get out to a movie once or twice a
year (that's not Disney). I want a little escapism from the real world!

--
Jerri
www.beadbimbo.com


"Karen_AZ" wrote in message
news:mZUDc.2637$nc.1081@fed1read03...
I would call on everyone to consider your sources and not look to

Hollywood
to help you decide anything. Please.

Amen. I wouldn't give Michael Moore money if he held a gun to my head.

KarenK




  #27  
Old June 29th 04, 01:52 AM
alia
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i would trust michael moore over george bush any day of the week.
right or wrong, true. and dont worry, moore would never put a gun to
your head.

neither would bush, he'd send a marine to do it.

sorry, bad joke


(Beadseeker) wrote in message ...
May I call upon everyone to think about going to see Farhenheit 9/11? It is
truly an amazing movie, filled with information about the current
administration which has been hidden from the public..
Patti

  #28  
Old June 29th 04, 04:21 AM
Karleen/Vibrant Jewels
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"Lisa" wrote in message
news:bN0Ec.194535$Ly.156855@attbi_s01...

]I'm much more alarmed at activist judges that are creating legislation
]instead of judging based on law. Many people applaud when they think

that
]the "right" is losing religious ground, they won't be so happy when the

same
]standard is applied to them.

Newbie here, I really hate to introduce myself on a
controversial thread, but I can't help it. From what
I've seen, an "activist judge" is a judge who makes a
decision that those on the right don't like.

I think the problem is more far reaching than that. Consider this quote:

"Legislative enactments, presidential actions, and amendments to the
Constitution are all things which publically announce changes in the law of
the land, providing foreknowledge of changes in the legal framework within
which free people may plan and act. Moreover, all the processes are
ultimately responsible to the people themselves and can be reversed if the
peole find them onerous. Judge-made innovations are, in effect, expost facto
laws, which are expressly forbidden by the Constitution and abhorrent to the
rule of law. For courts to strike like a bolt from the blue hitting an
unsuspecting citizen, who was disobeying no law that he could have known
beforehand, is the essence of judicial tyranny, however moral or just the
judges may imagine their innovation to be. The harm is not limited to the
particular damage this may do in a particular case, great as that may
sometimes be, but makes all other laws into murky storm clouds, potential
sources of other bolts from the blue, contrary to the whole notion of "a
government of laws and not of men."
***
The quest for cosmic justice via the judiciary--law as an "agent of change",
as it is often phrased--quietly repeals the foundations of the American
revolution. It reduces a free people to a subject people, subject now to the
edicts of unelected judges enforcing "evolving standards" and made more
heedless by their exhalted sense of moral superiority. It is one of the most
dangerous of many ways in which towering presumptions are a threat to the
freedom of America."

This is exerpted from Thomas Sowell's "The Quest for Cosmic Justice" (page
167) on this site
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../posts?page=85

My hubby and I watched a grand old b/w movie recently about the Nuremberg
Trials. Spencer Tracy was the judge. It was a fascinating look at the ideas
that shaped the Nazi movement and how they were implemented. The judges
began to use the Nazi ideology to shape their decisions, in which innocent
people were convicted of spurious allegations simply because they were Jews.
In a final scene, one of the judges who was on trial and convicted made the
statement that he never realized how far it would go and never meant for the
slaughter of millions of Jews to take place. Spencer Tracy said that it went
too far when the first innocent person was convicted.

I've read many books about the Holocaust. My father was wounded two times in
WWII seeking to help liberate France and the concentration camps. I've tried
very hard to understand how and why 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews
could be sacrificed to such a brittle philosophy. The Nazis cared very
passionately about their national identity, and more so about their supposed
Aryan supremacy. They were certainly exercising their "right" of free
speech, weren't they? And their ideas were so powerful that they swept
everyone with them in a tidal flood of destruction. Beyond that, they
influenced a whole generation to their way of thinking, including "activist
judges" who handed out the sentences that helped make being a Jew criminal.

11 million people sacrificed to an ideal.

Since 1971, 3,000 Americans per day, 1.5 million Americans per year, about
50 million Americans to date, have been sacrificed to an ideal... almost 5
times the toll of the Nazi Holocaust. It started with activist justices and
their sympathy for the plight of a woman with an unwanted pregnancy. It was
fueled by a symbol - remember the ubiquitous coat hanger with a slash
through it? It has been continued by the cry for reproductive rights -
although how destroying a fetus is "reproductive" is beyond me. It is
certinally politically incorrect to dispute such a feminist dogma, probably
even financially suicidal to even bring it up here....

50 million people ... and counting... sacrificed to an ideal.

I'm wondering, was it worth it?

The Dred Scott decision by the Supreme Court subjugated the rights of the
slave to the slave owner. The disastrous effects of this nonsense is still
being felt today. To relegate one "type" of human being to subhuman status
for the benefit of another has been shown to be bad law, as well as morally
wrong. Yet the "type" of human being known as a "fetus" has had subhuman
status since 1971, thanks to activist justices.

Euthanasia is next on the list, let's see who'll be relegatred to subhuman
status now. Who decides who is no longer useful or necessary? Will it be the
person's family, perhaps eager to collect an inheritance? Will it be the
HMO, who will not find it profitable to continue a person's existance? Will
it be some court, deciding when to "pull the plug"? (Wait, they do this
already...) Statistics from countries who already practice euthanasia show
that it is often the primary physician, the person's own doctor whom they
have trusted with their very life, who decides, without any input from any
one, including the patient, that their life span is over. Many of these
patients did NOT have a terminal illness, just chronic conditions that were
expensive to treat.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... basic rights out of which all
the others flow. But activist justices in 1971 decided that the most
innocent and defenseless of all our citizens didn't have any basic rights,
no rights at all. Slave=Jew=Fetus, it's all the same thing. And Euthanasia
will add to the list: the Aged, the Infirm, the Mentally Unfit, the
Unwanted, the Chronically Ill .... You?

As Thomas Sowell was quoted above:
"The quest for cosmic justice via the judiciary--law as an "agent of
change", as it is often phrased--quietly repeals the foundations of the
American revolution. It reduces a free people to a subject people, subject
now to the edicts of unelected judges enforcing "evolving standards" and
made more heedless by their exhalted sense of moral superiority. It is one
of the most dangerous of many ways in which towering presumptions are a
threat to the freedom of America."


  #29  
Old June 29th 04, 04:49 PM
roxan
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I have to agree here since it seems to me the religious right has
infiltrated so far into the republican party it makes me sick. What happen
to the separation of state and church. There has to be some middle ground
here and I hope it swings back to values we can all agree on and without
judges who see this we will continue to have the far right rule. Social
change always starts at the grass roots and I don't think that the majority
in this country want the far right in charge. Hopefully this will be evident
in the upcoming election.
Roxan
"Lisa" wrote in message
news:bN0Ec.194535$Ly.156855@attbi_s01...
vj wrote:

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karleen/Vibrant Jewels"
:

]I'm much more alarmed at activist judges that are creating legislation
]instead of judging based on law. Many people applaud when they think

that
]the "right" is losing religious ground, they won't be so happy when the

same
]standard is applied to them.

sorry - i couldn't disagree more.


Newbie here, I really hate to introduce myself on a
controversial thread, but I can't help it. From what
I've seen, an "activist judge" is a judge who makes a
decision that those on the right don't like.

Lisa


  #30  
Old June 29th 04, 06:03 PM
Dr. Sooz
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Newbie here, I really hate to introduce myself on a
controversial thread, but I can't help it. From what
I've seen, an "activist judge" is a judge who makes a
decision that those on the right don't like.

Lisa


Very astute, Lisa. Rock on.
Welcome to RCB posting, BTW!
~~
Sooz
 




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