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trademarking a makers mark
Hi, my name is Amanda Lee, and I just graduated with my BFA in Metals and
Jewelry in December. I have spent the month of January making some jewelry, and I would like to try to sell it. But before I do, I need some advice about makers marks. I have been working in sterling silver and have stamped my work .925 to indicate the content and also have stamped it with my makers mark (logo). All of the designs are mine, and I did all my own work. I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state from where his boutique is located. Is what the owner said correct? Do I have to trademark my makers mark before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing about how or where to apply for a trademark. Thank You. |
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#2
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vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad"
: ]Do I have to trademark my makers mark ]before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you ]tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing about ]how or where to apply for a trademark. **IANAL** [I Am Not A Lawyer] the ones i spoke to regarding this last summer said i COULD do it, but probably did not need to go to that kind of expense. for something like registering a trademark, an intellectual property lawyer is what you would need. stores like K-Mart register their trademark, and then put an R with a circle around it to indicate that it is a registered trademark. i still may do it eventually, but with a starting cost of $800 and up, it wasn't worth it to me yet. -- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com (Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com (Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com [it's a Callahan's thing] yahooID: vjean95967 ----------- "Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison |
#3
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New Grad wrote:
Hi, my name is Amanda Lee, and I just graduated with my BFA in Metals and Jewelry in December. I have spent the month of January making some jewelry, and I would like to try to sell it. But before I do, I need some advice about makers marks. I have been working in sterling silver and have stamped my work .925 to indicate the content and also have stamped it with my makers mark (logo). All of the designs are mine, and I did all my own work. I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state from where his boutique is located. Is what the owner said correct? No. Do I have to trademark my makers mark before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? No. This is total nonsense. I have been selling my work across state lines for well over 25 years. I have never had a gallery require a trademark from me. Find yourself someone else to represent you. And if so, can you tell me how to trademark my makers mark? It could cost you from several hundred to several thousand dollars to do this, depending on whether you would involve a lawyer or not, and if so, how expensive a lawyer. Don't be suckered into this. I don't know the first thing about how or where to apply for a trademark. Well, just like applying for a patent, you would have to do a "trademark search" first. After that you have to "apply for a trade mark". Do a google on "how to trademark work" to learn more. Take a look at the Nolo Press site for some very good answers regarding trade marks. http://tinyurl.com/289m and http://tinyurl.com/52eut There are lawyers who specialize in trade mark law, just as there are lawyers that specialize in patent law. You have no need for them. You do not want to work with a gallery who makes such ridiculous demands on you. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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Thank you very much for replying to my message. I have spent quite a time
exploring the links you suggested--that Nolo site is very helpful. I'm happy to hear that there are galleries that will consider my pieces without a trademark. This was the first shop that I'd approached, and when I heard what the owner had to say, I sort of went into shock. In college, I sold to friends and through a shop associated with our art dept, but that was different. I can see that I have a lot to learn about the "real world"! After sending my message yesterday, I called my father. He's not a lawyer--but he did contact a friend of his who is one. My father's friend said that this is not his area of expertise, but he did know that there were changes to the trade laws in 2001 that have caused a lot of confusion, including among some attorneys! He said one source for information would be the Federal Trade Commission's web site www.ftc.gov. (I haven't looked at it too much yet. Nolo is easier to read, so I started there.) He also suggested that I consider approaching some shops nearer my home. Thanks again for your help. I also enjoyed looking at your Web site! I am very glad to hear that "Abrasha" wrote in message ... New Grad wrote: Hi, my name is Amanda Lee, and I just graduated with my BFA in Metals and Jewelry in December. I have spent the month of January making some jewelry, and I would like to try to sell it. But before I do, I need some advice about makers marks. I have been working in sterling silver and have stamped my work .925 to indicate the content and also have stamped it with my makers mark (logo). All of the designs are mine, and I did all my own work. I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state from where his boutique is located. Is what the owner said correct? No. Do I have to trademark my makers mark before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? No. This is total nonsense. I have been selling my work across state lines for well over 25 years. I have never had a gallery require a trademark from me. Find yourself someone else to represent you. And if so, can you tell me how to trademark my makers mark? It could cost you from several hundred to several thousand dollars to do this, depending on whether you would involve a lawyer or not, and if so, how expensive a lawyer. Don't be suckered into this. I don't know the first thing about how or where to apply for a trademark. Well, just like applying for a patent, you would have to do a "trademark search" first. After that you have to "apply for a trade mark". Do a google on "how to trademark work" to learn more. Take a look at the Nolo Press site for some very good answers regarding trade marks. http://tinyurl.com/289m and http://tinyurl.com/52eut There are lawyers who specialize in trade mark law, just as there are lawyers that specialize in patent law. You have no need for them. You do not want to work with a gallery who makes such ridiculous demands on you. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#5
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Thank you for your reply. Mentioning kmart really put my question in a
different perspective. I certainly would never want anyone to think of my jewelry as being in the same category with kmart jewelry!! You have given me a new insight. P.S. Your glass frog on the silver leaf is really cute. "vj" wrote in message ... vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad" : ]Do I have to trademark my makers mark ]before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you ]tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing about ]how or where to apply for a trademark. **IANAL** [I Am Not A Lawyer] the ones i spoke to regarding this last summer said i COULD do it, but probably did not need to go to that kind of expense. for something like registering a trademark, an intellectual property lawyer is what you would need. stores like K-Mart register their trademark, and then put an R with a circle around it to indicate that it is a registered trademark. i still may do it eventually, but with a starting cost of $800 and up, it wasn't worth it to me yet. -- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com (Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com (Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com [it's a Callahan's thing] yahooID: vjean95967 ----------- "Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison |
#6
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vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad"
: ]Thank you for your reply. Mentioning kmart really put my question in a ]different perspective. I certainly would never want anyone to think of my ]jewelry as being in the same category with kmart jewelry!! You have given ]me a new insight. well, that wasn't quite what i meant. generally, only huge corporations need to trademark their logos to keep them from being used by someone else. ]P.S. Your glass frog on the silver leaf is really cute. **smile** thank you! -- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com (Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com (Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com [it's a Callahan's thing] yahooID: vjean95967 ----------- "Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison |
#7
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:04:06 -0800, in Tõ "New Grad"
wrote: I am currently visiting a friend who has a contact in a very upscale jewelry boutique. The owner of the boutique sells a lot of handmade jewelry from artisans around the country. He told me that he liked my work ("it's unique"!!!), but if I want to sell to him, then I must obtain a trademark for my makers mark. He said this is because I live in a different state from where his boutique is located. This thread got me thinking, and dong some web searching. I came up with a few interesting points. The U.S. law regarding precious metal marking does not require you to mark karat content on gold or silver quality on silver, etc. If you choose not to mark it, however, it cannot then be represented as such. If you DO mark it, such as stamping it sterling or a karat mark, then U.S. law requires, if the articles are subject to federal law, which means interstate commerce, that the items ALSO be marked with either a U.S. registered trademark, OR the name of the maker. If the latter (your name), then you don't need to register your name for it to be legal. But the point is that it is entirely legal to sell the work in interstate commerce with no marks at all. Only if you mark it with the metal content, does it then also need a trademark or makers name. Also note that the mark only needs to be permenant enough to reach the end consumer at the point of purchase. it is legal to mark a work on the packaging or on a sales tag, rather than stamping the item itself. And the method of marking is not specified, other than to say it must be legible and reasonably readable by the consumer. A totally microscopic marking, or one placed where a consumer cannot find it, does not fit the legal requirements. You can stamp it, of course, and because that's fast and good looking, is the commercial norm. But engraving it or scribing it, such as signing your name with a vibrograver, is also entirely legal. So is plain ballpoint pen on a hang tag, so long as the tag stays on it long enough for the end consumer to get it. I was unable to find further documentation as to just what constitutes marking an item with your name. I suspect your full last name may be enough, but don't know for sure, nor whether two or three initials is sufficient. That's of interest since many jewelers do exactly that, and have not registered their initials. A tradmark does not have to be registered for it to be a legal tradmark, but the stamping law goes further, and DOES require registration for a trademark to fit the requirements on jewelry marking. This is partly of interest since registering a trademark seems to require that the trademark already be put in commercial use in order to file the registration paperwork. Until the application is actually approved, and the mark registered, a trademark is not yet considered "registered". ie, a pending or filed registration application is not enough. I'd suggest continuing to mark your items as you now do, but for these "interstate" deals, print up some nice little hang tags that also state the metal content as well as your name. They would then satisfy, fully, the federal marking requirements. If that store does not believe this, send them this URL, which is one of several places on the FTC web site that mentions the option of marking with your actual name, rather than a trademark. It's a copy of a letter written by FTC attorneys in response to someones inquiry about marking their silver keychain or some such. The FTC site mentions this option in several other places, including the actual jewelry marking guidelines. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/jewel...rs/neilson.pdf The pertenant part of that letter states; With respect to your question regarding registering the charm so you can stamp it with ".925 Sterling," the National Gold and Silver Stamping Act provides, in pertinent part, that an article bearing a quality mark or stamp indicating that such article is made in whole or in part of gold or silver shall also contain the U.S. registered trademark or the name of the responsible party. 15 U.S.C. § 297 (b). Therefore, although you may obtain a registered trademark to place on your article, you may also stamp the article "Sterling" as long as the name of the responsible party appears next to the quality mark. If you are interested in obtaining a trademark, you should call the Trademark Office at (703) 308-9800. Hope that helps. Peter Rowe |
#8
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 01:31:15 GMT, "New Grad"
wrote: Thank you for your reply. Mentioning kmart really put my question in a different perspective. I certainly would never want anyone to think of my jewelry as being in the same category with kmart jewelry!! You have given me a new insight. Don't take that the wrong way. The fact that Kmart uses trademarks does not make trademarks a bad thing. P.S. Your glass frog on the silver leaf is really cute. "vj" wrote in message .. . vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "New Grad" : ]Do I have to trademark my makers mark ]before I can sell my jewelry outside of my own state? And if so, can you ]tell me how to trademark my makers mark? I don't know the first thing about ]how or where to apply for a trademark. **IANAL** [I Am Not A Lawyer] the ones i spoke to regarding this last summer said i COULD do it, but probably did not need to go to that kind of expense. for something like registering a trademark, an intellectual property lawyer is what you would need. stores like K-Mart register their trademark, and then put an R with a circle around it to indicate that it is a registered trademark. i still may do it eventually, but with a starting cost of $800 and up, it wasn't worth it to me yet. -- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com (Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com (Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com [it's a Callahan's thing] yahooID: vjean95967 ----------- "Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison -- Al Balmer Balmer Consulting |
#9
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Does anyone know the relevant law for the UK that covers such things? Like,
if I make a silver necklace I usually put a commercially bought .925 tag on it, but I want to start stamping my wire worked pieces. Do I have to send things away to have them done, or can I do them in my own home? Charlie. "Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message ... This thread got me thinking, and dong some web searching. I came up with a few interesting points. The U.S. law regarding precious metal marking does not require you to mark karat content on gold or silver quality on silver, etc. If you choose not to mark it, however, it cannot then be represented as such. If you DO mark it, such as stamping it sterling or a karat mark, then U.S. law requires, if the articles are subject to federal law, which means interstate commerce, that the items ALSO be marked with either a U.S. registered trademark, OR the name of the maker. If the latter (your name), then you don't need to register your name for it to be legal. But the point is that it is entirely legal to sell the work in interstate commerce with no marks at all. Only if you mark it with the metal content, does it then also need a trademark or makers name. Also note that the mark only needs to be permenant enough to reach the end consumer at the point of purchase. it is legal to mark a work on the packaging or on a sales tag, rather than stamping the item itself. And the method of marking is not specified, other than to say it must be legible and reasonably readable by the consumer. A totally microscopic marking, or one placed where a consumer cannot find it, does not fit the legal requirements. You can stamp it, of course, and because that's fast and good looking, is the commercial norm. But engraving it or scribing it, such as signing your name with a vibrograver, is also entirely legal. So is plain ballpoint pen on a hang tag, so long as the tag stays on it long enough for the end consumer to get it. I was unable to find further documentation as to just what constitutes marking an item with your name. I suspect your full last name may be enough, but don't know for sure, nor whether two or three initials is sufficient. That's of interest since many jewelers do exactly that, and have not registered their initials. A tradmark does not have to be registered for it to be a legal tradmark, but the stamping law goes further, and DOES require registration for a trademark to fit the requirements on jewelry marking. This is partly of interest since registering a trademark seems to require that the trademark already be put in commercial use in order to file the registration paperwork. Until the application is actually approved, and the mark registered, a trademark is not yet considered "registered". ie, a pending or filed registration application is not enough. I'd suggest continuing to mark your items as you now do, but for these "interstate" deals, print up some nice little hang tags that also state the metal content as well as your name. They would then satisfy, fully, the federal marking requirements. If that store does not believe this, send them this URL, which is one of several places on the FTC web site that mentions the option of marking with your actual name, rather than a trademark. It's a copy of a letter written by FTC attorneys in response to someones inquiry about marking their silver keychain or some such. The FTC site mentions this option in several other places, including the actual jewelry marking guidelines. http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/jewel...rs/neilson.pdf The pertenant part of that letter states; With respect to your question regarding registering the charm so you can stamp it with ".925 Sterling," the National Gold and Silver Stamping Act provides, in pertinent part, that an article bearing a quality mark or stamp indicating that such article is made in whole or in part of gold or silver shall also contain the U.S. registered trademark or the name of the responsible party. 15 U.S.C. § 297 (b). Therefore, although you may obtain a registered trademark to place on your article, you may also stamp the article "Sterling" as long as the name of the responsible party appears next to the quality mark. If you are interested in obtaining a trademark, you should call the Trademark Office at (703) 308-9800. Hope that helps. Peter Rowe |
#10
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Charlie wrote:
Does anyone know the relevant law for the UK that covers such things? Like, if I make a silver necklace I usually put a commercially bought .925 tag on it, but I want to start stamping my wire worked pieces. Do I have to send things away to have them done, or can I do them in my own home? Charlie. The law in the uk is as follows. IF you offer for sale any precious metal object described as silver or gold etc over the minimun weight it has to have a hallmark thereon and conform to the minimum quality standards.. It also has to have a makers mark. you can put this on yourself. the Hall mark is put on by the assay office. This is not free and if you contact the London one youll get all the info on prices etc. If you offer for sale the same precious metal but call it white or yellow metal you dont need to have it assayed, nor if you make it for yourself or give it away. Nor can you incorporate other base metals soldered to the precious ones and have it hall marked. they wont do it. At no time can you call it silver or gold if you dont have it assayed and marked.. Thats how electronics and electrical equipment makers incorporate gold and silver in their products and they dont need to conform to the hall marking acts. Its not very economic for one offs unless you can get a high price for it. hope this helps |
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