Fusing Glass Discussions

Glad you're enjying the kiln - there's an awful lot to learn - but the
best way I've found is to experiment, and keep notes !

I agree with that, Adrian! The learning curve feels like the letter "O"
right now. I have a raging battle going on between the left and right
hemispheres of my brain every time I go to fuse. The creative side sighs
and pouts and pokes to just get on with it! But the analytic side insists
that I must, at least, have a fair working knowledge of the equipment and
the science of glass and all its wonderful nature. Although I am certain
that a wonderful marriage will ultimately occur between the two
sides...right now they are more interested in wrestling than doing the tango
with one another! Plus I insist on using glass that has not been tested so
I can be surprised by the results...I live to make things hard for myself!
lol

There's lots of expertise over in the warmglass forum - but I personally
find it much easier to read this newsgroup, rather than
keep checking a web-based offering.

My feelings as well. I LOVE this newsgroup...even with all the varying
dissent...or is it BECAUSE of the varying dissent??? Even though folks go
off the specific topic often, they are still giving up an immense amount of
information and I feel like I am getting quite the education. And then when
they post links...ahhhh, the beauty of glass!

By all means ask away here -
what sort of kiln do you have and what are you making with it ?

I have a Jen-Ken kiln - 11 x 4 1/2 internal dimension, octagon, one side
element, 120v, 1700 degrees. Because it is my first (sort of infers that
there are more on the horizon, no?) I confess to cheaping out and not
getting exactly what I wanted for fear that it would end up an ornament in
my already stuffed crafting studio. So it is smaller than what I actually
wanted and has a pyrometer and infinite switch as opposed to a digital
controller. On the whole I am glad that I am having to learn how to control
the kiln myself rather than just programming it. Still, there is the
occasion when I wish I didn't have to be quite so diligent (and anxious)
going through the various stages and adjustments of the fusing process.

Tried any dichroic glass yet - that's lovely stuff to play with !

Egads! That stuff is so incredibly expensive...I am waiting until I achieve
Goddess status in creating and successfully fusing before mixing in my tiny
stash of gold, um, I mean dichroic glass! Until then I have to satisfy
myself with admiring those pieces that others (such as yourself) have
created and invested.

Smiles!
Lori

Hi Lori

On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:52:37 GMT, "FlameNwind"
wrote:

Glad you're enjying the kiln - there's an awful lot to learn - but the
best way I've found is to experiment, and keep notes !

I agree with that, Adrian! The learning curve feels like the letter "O"
right now.

Oh yes - been there - done that !

I have a raging battle going on between the left and right
hemispheres of my brain every time I go to fuse. The creative side sighs
and pouts and pokes to just get on with it! But the analytic side insists
that I must, at least, have a fair working knowledge of the equipment and
the science of glass and all its wonderful nature. Although I am certain
that a wonderful marriage will ultimately occur between the two
sides...right now they are more interested in wrestling than doing the tango
with one another! Plus I insist on using glass that has not been tested so
I can be surprised by the results...I live to make things hard for myself!
lol


My limited experience suggests that non-tested cathedral glass is much
more forgiving than on-tested 'streaky' stuff.

I did run a few test strips - using spectrum clear as a substrate and
fusing little bits of 'everything' in my glass stock shelves onto it.

Viewed through a pair of crossed polars you could see the stresses -
which allowed you to make reasonable guesses as to what would fuse
with what - also viewed under ordinary light yu could see what had
de-vitrified and what hadn't...

There's lots of expertise over in the warmglass forum - but I personally
find it much easier to read this newsgroup, rather than
keep checking a web-based offering.

My feelings as well. I LOVE this newsgroup...even with all the varying
dissent...or is it BECAUSE of the varying dissent??? Even though folks go
off the specific topic often, they are still giving up an immense amount of
information and I feel like I am getting quite the education. And then when
they post links...ahhhh, the beauty of glass!

True !
Also I can read the newsgroup with a 'proper' off-line reader (free
agent from forte) so I don't have to use a web-based interface.


By all means ask away here -
what sort of kiln do you have and what are you making with it ?

I have a Jen-Ken kiln - 11 x 4 1/2 internal dimension, octagon, one side
element, 120v, 1700 degrees. Because it is my first (sort of infers that
there are more on the horizon, no?) I confess to cheaping out and not
getting exactly what I wanted for fear that it would end up an ornament in
my already stuffed crafting studio. So it is smaller than what I actually
wanted and has a pyrometer and infinite switch as opposed to a digital
controller. On the whole I am glad that I am having to learn how to control
the kiln myself rather than just programming it. Still, there is the
occasion when I wish I didn't have to be quite so diligent (and anxious)
going through the various stages and adjustments of the fusing process.

OK - I'm using a little (digitally controlled) Paragon SC-2 - and
thinking of upgrading to a larger kiln (see other thread). I get the
feeling that it's not such a bad thing to have a manually-controlled
kiln - at least you get a 'feel' for the process....

The other side of it is that, with a digitally-controlled kiln, you do
get repeatabilty - so you can do as I'm doing at the moment and load
the kiln with little pieces of glass for the 'feathers' on a
stained-glass dreamcatcher - and just leave 'em to 'cook' - knowing
that they'll turn out more or less like the last batch...

Tried any dichroic glass yet - that's lovely stuff to play with !

Egads! That stuff is so incredibly expensive...I am waiting until I achieve
Goddess status in creating and successfully fusing before mixing in my tiny
stash of gold, um, I mean dichroic glass! Until then I have to satisfy
myself with admiring those pieces that others (such as yourself) have
created and invested.

Here's a tip.
Try buying 'dichro scrap' - search on ebay.
You can get 1/2 lb or even 1lb if you're feeling flush g - and if
you chose your supplier carefully then you get a good mix of 'stuff'
to play with. Gives you a feel for the material - some sellers will
also sell you a named 'sample set' - which can be a great way to see
what the stuff in the catalogues really looks like.

On a purely commercial note - you can make a pendant and a pair of
earrings from a 1" square 'sample' piece - and then sell the 'set' for
many times what you paid for the glass - but that's getting all nasty
and commercial g

I've recently been playing with 'kiln carving' - and it seems that
bog-standard 'casting plaster' will survive kiln temperatures on a
one-off basis - you can place a piece of glass over a plaster mound
and it'll slump and thin til you get a quite interesting effect. Works
well with coloured glass - as you get a light colour on the high
points of the mould..... fun!

Another form of kiln fun can be had by cutting a sheet of (any) glass
into thin strips, and then laying them out in two layers at 90 degrees
like a woven thing. Tack-Fused flat makes a nice coaster - tack-fuse
it and then slump it and you get an unusual tray - one of those 'how's
it done' things - gets people talking at shows.... g

It's great fun ! - and sometimes even the 'accidents' are beautiful !

Regards
Adrian
Suffolk UK
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wrote:
Oh, you might also want to ask for references of other happy customers.
That shouldn't be too long of a list.
It would be especially entertaining to have a list of those on this news
group who have done business with Dennis. Anybody? anybody at all?

Ask that question on the warm glass board. Our kiln sales average
about one each day. We regularly ship kilns, belt sanders, glass, etc.
to Europe and Australia. We're just now consolidating a shipment to
South Africa and working out prices to ship a mix of tools and cases of
glass to Norway. Our market is international with a list of happy
customers worldwide.

Dennis, you won't be sending any shipment to Norway. Initiating contact
with someone and sending them a quote is a far cry from a sale. Save
your time . . . and, your reputation on Warm Glass is the same as it is
on every glass board, (except, I guess, your own, which is DEAD) which
is a bloviating laughingstock. You are so self involved you don't even
notice it.

But that's okay, everybody else notices it. Brock

Moonraker wrote:


My guess is that he's an ugly, pimply assed, pencil necked little geek


http://www.debrady.com/about/artistsstatement.htm

--
Jack

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://www.glassartguild.com/gallery/jack_bowman

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Hi again

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:05:05 -0600, nJb wrote:


Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Hi nJb

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:40:29 -0600, nJb wrote:



Adrian Brentnall wrote:




Hmmm - never thought of that !
I must admit that the price of kilns is quite staggering for what they
are.... but then, the same could be said of a lot of things....

Anybody on here followed the 'diy' route - any experiences ?
I could buy a lot of glass for the 750 Uk Pounds ! g

Thanks
Adrian


Try he http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xmissionbobo/my_photos


I built this one for around $2200 and I think that included $500 for the
welding machine.


Phew - that's some kiln !
Though I did see a bigger one on holiday on the Amalfi Coast in Italy
- they were using it to fire enamel onto granite (?) tabletops - which
were from 4 ft round up to 4ft x 8 ft......

Anyway - very interesting. - thanks !

My kiln is 56 Amps. I read the meter one evening, loaded two large 1/4"
float glass pieces to be slumped, and then read the meter in the
morning. Electrical usage for my entire house and kiln during that
period was less than $3.


That sounds very good.
Electricity must be fairly cheap over there - presumably it's running
off 3-phase....

At home, it's single phase and `$.08 per KWH. Our studio is 3 phase but
only the compressor motors use 3 phase. The 4x8 will be hooked up that way.

The place we're moving from in the UK is wired for 3-phase - only one
phase has a meter connected, though I rather suspect the that previous
owner used to play tricks with the other two phases..... g

I should be picking up a 4'x8' Denver Bell Kiln soon. The price is too
good to pass up.


What a beast !
Presumably it fires like a smaller kiln - but slower ?
I guess if you are firing a piece of glass that big you'd need to take
it a bit gently anyway.....

Just as fast as a small kiln, but of course the larger the glass the
slower we go.

Tell me - on a larger kiln (as in 14" - larger than my baby paragon)
would you expect to get a more even heating inside the kiln.

I ask because I'm always loading the little shelf with rows of pendant
pieces - only to find that the stuff at the back has fused perfectly -
but the stuff near the front-opening door needs to go round again.

Sounds like a front loader. Elements on sides and back. Try firing
slower to allow the door area to keep up with the back.

I've been doing some kiln-carving - and a square piece of glass that's
been slumped is noticeably trapezoidal after slumping - wider at the
front where it's cooler and narrower at the back where it's hotter.

Slow down.


If things were more uniform in a larger kiln then I could maybe sell
off the little SC2 to part-fund the new one.....? what do you think ?

I think you will be happier with a top loading kiln.



--
Jack

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://www.glassartguild.com/gallery/jack_bowman

Brock wrote:

wrote:

Oh, you might also want to ask for references of other happy customers.
That shouldn't be too long of a list.
It would be especially entertaining to have a list of those on this news
group who have done business with Dennis. Anybody? anybody at all?

Ask that question on the warm glass board. Our kiln sales average
about one each day. We regularly ship kilns, belt sanders, glass, etc.
to Europe and Australia. We're just now consolidating a shipment to
South Africa and working out prices to ship a mix of tools and cases of
glass to Norway. Our market is international with a list of happy
customers worldwide.


Dennis, you won't be sending any shipment to Norway. Initiating contact
with someone and sending them a quote is a far cry from a sale. Save
your time . . . and, your reputation on Warm Glass is the same as it is
on every glass board, (except, I guess, your own, which is DEAD) which
is a bloviating laughingstock. You are so self involved you don't even
notice it.

But that's okay, everybody else notices it. Brock


You know this guy?

--
Jack

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://www.glassartguild.com/gallery/jack_bowman

nJb wrote:
Brock wrote:

wrote:

Oh, you might also want to ask for references of other happy customers.
That shouldn't be too long of a list.
It would be especially entertaining to have a list of those on this news
group who have done business with Dennis. Anybody? anybody at all?

Ask that question on the warm glass board. Our kiln sales average
about one each day. We regularly ship kilns, belt sanders, glass, etc.
to Europe and Australia. We're just now consolidating a shipment to
South Africa and working out prices to ship a mix of tools and cases of
glass to Norway. Our market is international with a list of happy
customers worldwide.


Dennis, you won't be sending any shipment to Norway. Initiating contact
with someone and sending them a quote is a far cry from a sale. Save
your time . . . and, your reputation on Warm Glass is the same as it is
on every glass board, (except, I guess, your own, which is DEAD) which
is a bloviating laughingstock. You are so self involved you don't even
notice it.

But that's okay, everybody else notices it. Brock


You know this guy?

--
Jack

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://www.glassartguild.com/gallery/jack_bowman

Hah! Hi Jack. Kinda hard to miss old Dennis on the web. I haven't
posted here in a while, but had to respond when I saw him dissembling
about Norway. Total fantasy. Brock

HI again

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 10:42:05 -0600, nJb wrote:

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Hi again

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:05:05 -0600, nJb wrote:


Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Hi nJb

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:40:29 -0600, nJb wrote:



Adrian Brentnall wrote:




Hmmm - never thought of that !
I must admit that the price of kilns is quite staggering for what they
are.... but then, the same could be said of a lot of things....

Anybody on here followed the 'diy' route - any experiences ?
I could buy a lot of glass for the 750 Uk Pounds ! g

Thanks
Adrian


Try he http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xmissionbobo/my_photos


I built this one for around $2200 and I think that included $500 for the
welding machine.


Phew - that's some kiln !
Though I did see a bigger one on holiday on the Amalfi Coast in Italy
- they were using it to fire enamel onto granite (?) tabletops - which
were from 4 ft round up to 4ft x 8 ft......

Anyway - very interesting. - thanks !

My kiln is 56 Amps. I read the meter one evening, loaded two large 1/4"
float glass pieces to be slumped, and then read the meter in the
morning. Electrical usage for my entire house and kiln during that
period was less than $3.


That sounds very good.
Electricity must be fairly cheap over there - presumably it's running
off 3-phase....

At home, it's single phase and `$.08 per KWH. Our studio is 3 phase but
only the compressor motors use 3 phase. The 4x8 will be hooked up that way.

OK. By comparison my electricity costs $0.2 per KWH - hmmm !



The place we're moving from in the UK is wired for 3-phase - only one
phase has a meter connected, though I rather suspect the that previous
owner used to play tricks with the other two phases..... g

I should be picking up a 4'x8' Denver Bell Kiln soon. The price is too
good to pass up.


What a beast !
Presumably it fires like a smaller kiln - but slower ?
I guess if you are firing a piece of glass that big you'd need to take
it a bit gently anyway.....

Just as fast as a small kiln, but of course the larger the glass the
slower we go.

Understood


Tell me - on a larger kiln (as in 14" - larger than my baby paragon)
would you expect to get a more even heating inside the kiln.

I ask because I'm always loading the little shelf with rows of pendant
pieces - only to find that the stuff at the back has fused perfectly -
but the stuff near the front-opening door needs to go round again.

Sounds like a front loader. Elements on sides and back. Try firing
slower to allow the door area to keep up with the back.

It's the little SC2 - link here http://www.paragonkilns.com/SC2.htm
It is a front-loader and I think it has heating elements on left and
right side and on the top - nothing front or back.

I had slowed the rate down - maybe I should slow further...?
One comment I had was that with such a small kiln, the air inside
warms up very fast - and as the thermocouple is measuring air temp
rather than anything else, it may cause the controller to think it's
reached its setpoint before it actually has...


I've been doing some kiln-carving - and a square piece of glass that's
been slumped is noticeably trapezoidal after slumping - wider at the
front where it's cooler and narrower at the back where it's hotter.

Slow down.

OK - I'll give it a try.


If things were more uniform in a larger kiln then I could maybe sell
off the little SC2 to part-fund the new one.....? what do you think ?

I think you will be happier with a top loading kiln.

I was thinking the same.
The front-loader seemed like a good idea at the time, and it's been a
good education (bought it last October) - but I think it's time to
move onwards (and upwards !)

Thanks for your comments - very helpful

Regards
Adrian
Suffolk UK

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"nJb" wrote in message
...
Moonraker wrote:


My guess is that he's an ugly, pimply assed, pencil necked little geek


http://www.debrady.com/about/artistsstatement.htm

--
Jack

Funny thing. That's the same picture that's in the dictionary right next
to the word psychopath.

have you looked at used pottery kilns? they are cheap, top loading, can be
fitted with a controller, and have larger than what you are using inside
dimensions. They offer the depth for multiple shelves but i prefer removing
all the sections to fire only one as the others do not get even heat. I have
2 Skutts, both ancient with newer elements that are absolutely great! Until
i have the time (now that i have the room) to build me that grandaddy 2' x 4
' these have run me in good stead. I paid about 300$ US for each.
"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote
in message ...
HI again

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 10:42:05 -0600, nJb wrote:

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Hi again

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:05:05 -0600, nJb wrote:


Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Hi nJb

On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:40:29 -0600, nJb wrote:



Adrian Brentnall wrote:




Hmmm - never thought of that !
I must admit that the price of kilns is quite staggering for what
they
are.... but then, the same could be said of a lot of things....

Anybody on here followed the 'diy' route - any experiences ?
I could buy a lot of glass for the 750 Uk Pounds ! g

Thanks
Adrian


Try he http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xmissionbobo/my_photos


I built this one for around $2200 and I think that included $500 for
the
welding machine.


Phew - that's some kiln !
Though I did see a bigger one on holiday on the Amalfi Coast in Italy
- they were using it to fire enamel onto granite (?) tabletops - which
were from 4 ft round up to 4ft x 8 ft......

Anyway - very interesting. - thanks !

My kiln is 56 Amps. I read the meter one evening, loaded two large 1/4"
float glass pieces to be slumped, and then read the meter in the
morning. Electrical usage for my entire house and kiln during that
period was less than $3.


That sounds very good.
Electricity must be fairly cheap over there - presumably it's running
off 3-phase....

At home, it's single phase and `$.08 per KWH. Our studio is 3 phase but
only the compressor motors use 3 phase. The 4x8 will be hooked up that
way.

OK. By comparison my electricity costs $0.2 per KWH - hmmm !



The place we're moving from in the UK is wired for 3-phase - only one
phase has a meter connected, though I rather suspect the that previous
owner used to play tricks with the other two phases..... g

I should be picking up a 4'x8' Denver Bell Kiln soon. The price is too
good to pass up.


What a beast !
Presumably it fires like a smaller kiln - but slower ?
I guess if you are firing a piece of glass that big you'd need to take
it a bit gently anyway.....

Just as fast as a small kiln, but of course the larger the glass the
slower we go.

Understood


Tell me - on a larger kiln (as in 14" - larger than my baby paragon)
would you expect to get a more even heating inside the kiln.

I ask because I'm always loading the little shelf with rows of pendant
pieces - only to find that the stuff at the back has fused perfectly -
but the stuff near the front-opening door needs to go round again.

Sounds like a front loader. Elements on sides and back. Try firing
slower to allow the door area to keep up with the back.

It's the little SC2 - link here http://www.paragonkilns.com/SC2.htm
It is a front-loader and I think it has heating elements on left and
right side and on the top - nothing front or back.

I had slowed the rate down - maybe I should slow further...?
One comment I had was that with such a small kiln, the air inside
warms up very fast - and as the thermocouple is measuring air temp
rather than anything else, it may cause the controller to think it's
reached its setpoint before it actually has...


I've been doing some kiln-carving - and a square piece of glass that's
been slumped is noticeably trapezoidal after slumping - wider at the
front where it's cooler and narrower at the back where it's hotter.

Slow down.

OK - I'll give it a try.


If things were more uniform in a larger kiln then I could maybe sell
off the little SC2 to part-fund the new one.....? what do you think ?

I think you will be happier with a top loading kiln.

I was thinking the same.
The front-loader seemed like a good idea at the time, and it's been a
good education (bought it last October) - but I think it's time to
move onwards (and upwards !)

Thanks for your comments - very helpful

Regards
Adrian
Suffolk UK

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