DMC vs. Anchor experiment

I thought I would try an experiment to see for myself if there are any
differences between using DMC or Anchor brands of floss for cross
stitch. I used the brightly colored nasturtium design by Barbara Haatz
Hillman at http://www.koolerdesign.com/fcnastur.asp which stitched
up fairly quickly. I used the same bright white 14-ct. Aida cloth for
both projects. I stitched the Anchor first, and then the DMC. I used 2
strands of floss. I used DMC from skeins and Anchor from the pre-wound
floss cards with the exception of 842 from the skein which I already had
in my stash.

I found the Anchor floss seemed smoother and shinier on the card. I had
less trouble extracting a strand from a 6 strand length of floss in that
the floss didn't knot up in an unrescuable rat's nest. I found I had
less wasted floss after I finished stitching with a length -- floss that
would be too short to stitch anything else but seems too long to throw
away. I had less uneven strands at the end of the length which went
through the needle: ie, both strands were close to the same length
rather than having one longer than the other. I had less malformed
stitches. I had less knotting during stitching. I found the colors
(especially the greens) were brighter but there was less blending
between shades of the same color range in that there is not as much
subtle shift from shade to shade, but a more noticeable color change.

I found the DMC floss seemed less smooth and less shinier on the skein.
I had trouble extracting strands and sometimes had the unrescuable rat's
nest at the end of the 6 strand length. (snip, snip, start over again!)
I had a bit more wasted floss lengths and more unevenness in the strands
looped through the needle which tells me that my stitches were not
laying parallel and straight, but were bunching and overlapping in the
project. I therefore had more malformed stitches as it seemed harder to
make the stitches lay parallel. I had a lot more slip knots and those
mutant slip knots that won't come undone (more snip, snip). I found the
colors were darker, but there was much more of a subtle shift from one
shade to the next in the same color range, which seemed to blend the
project together better.

I wanted to compare these two with the J&P Coats line as well, but only
have half of the colors I need and can't find a source for that brand in
my area. I bought my stash of J&P when on holidays at a Wal-Mart and
thought I had the entire range (at least that's what it felt like when
each skein was scanned separately through the till... :- )

I have used Anchor on one UFO which I started a few years ago and put
aside. It was still early in my stitching career and didn't seem to
notice a big difference between brands of threads. I've always bought
DMC for some reason, even though I can get the Anchor much cheaper. I
guess it's just a habit. I did feel less stressed and happier with the
results of my Anchor project, so I might be reconsidering that habit and
switching more stitching over to Anchor in the future.

Cheers,
--

Laury

What an interesting "experiment".

My questions/thoughts a
1. You mentioned sheen prior to using. What about sheen AFTER using?

2. I've not had problems splitting strands from a bundle, no matter
what I use. Perhaps it's your technique? Or, maybe I misunderstood
what you were trying to say.

3. Old skeins of DMC don't become quite the rat's nest as the newer
skeins. Must be a manufacturing problem.

4. Having threads of uneven lengths . . . hmmmm . . . our resident
engineer (Jim Cripwell) might be able to lend some theories, but that
generally has to do with how we handle thread. Unless (just thinking
out loud) there might be more "drag" on the DMC strands.

5. I've stitched with a variety of threads and would like to know more
about your problems with "unruly" DMC threads. Bunched and unparallel
threads are because (I believe) of the way you are handling them, thus
laying tools are often used. Koreans use their fingers as laying tools,
by the way. I frequently use my thumbnail. I just don't understand why
there would be this particular problem between the thread brands. Not
disputing your findings, just wondering why that might be so?

6. One of the things you didn't mention was coverage. Did you notice a
difference?

7. Because personal bias (not saying you consciously have any - and
indeed, you seemed to start this project with no pre-conceived notions)
plays a role in outcomes of these type of experiments, it's hard to know
for sure whether you changed stitching habits during the process.

That is easily resolved by being handed threads and not knowing which
you are using. Of course, you couldn't do a "real" project that way,
but if you had a diagram/graph which just said, *green* and somebody
handed you green, you wouldn't know. You stitched an actual project and
used the suggested colors. An objective test like this, I would think,
would have to have a geometric print with just primary/secondary colors
by color name only.

Interesting that the blending of colors was better in the DMC line. I
hadn't noticed anyone mentioning that in the past. Of course, I could
have just forgotten, too.

Thanks for sharing. An interesting read. I'm gonna keep these thoughts
in my mental file drawer. :-)
Dianne

Laury Walkey wrote:

I thought I would try an experiment to see for myself if there are any
differences between using DMC or Anchor brands of floss for cross
stitch. I used the brightly colored nasturtium design by Barbara Haatz
Hillman at http://www.koolerdesign.com/fcnastur.asp which stitched
up fairly quickly. I used the same bright white 14-ct. Aida cloth for
both projects. I stitched the Anchor first, and then the DMC. I used 2
strands of floss. I used DMC from skeins and Anchor from the pre-wound
floss cards with the exception of 842 from the skein which I already had
in my stash.

I found the Anchor floss seemed smoother and shinier on the card. I had
less trouble extracting a strand from a 6 strand length of floss in that
the floss didn't knot up in an unrescuable rat's nest. I found I had
less wasted floss after I finished stitching with a length -- floss that
would be too short to stitch anything else but seems too long to throw
away. I had less uneven strands at the end of the length which went
through the needle: ie, both strands were close to the same length
rather than having one longer than the other. I had less malformed
stitches. I had less knotting during stitching. I found the colors
(especially the greens) were brighter but there was less blending
between shades of the same color range in that there is not as much
subtle shift from shade to shade, but a more noticeable color change.

I found the DMC floss seemed less smooth and less shinier on the skein.
I had trouble extracting strands and sometimes had the unrescuable rat's
nest at the end of the 6 strand length. (snip, snip, start over again!)
I had a bit more wasted floss lengths and more unevenness in the strands
looped through the needle which tells me that my stitches were not
laying parallel and straight, but were bunching and overlapping in the
project. I therefore had more malformed stitches as it seemed harder to
make the stitches lay parallel. I had a lot more slip knots and those
mutant slip knots that won't come undone (more snip, snip). I found the
colors were darker, but there was much more of a subtle shift from one
shade to the next in the same color range, which seemed to blend the
project together better.

I wanted to compare these two with the J&P Coats line as well, but only
have half of the colors I need and can't find a source for that brand in
my area. I bought my stash of J&P when on holidays at a Wal-Mart and
thought I had the entire range (at least that's what it felt like when
each skein was scanned separately through the till... :- )

I have used Anchor on one UFO which I started a few years ago and put
aside. It was still early in my stitching career and didn't seem to
notice a big difference between brands of threads. I've always bought
DMC for some reason, even though I can get the Anchor much cheaper. I
guess it's just a habit. I did feel less stressed and happier with the
results of my Anchor project, so I might be reconsidering that habit and
switching more stitching over to Anchor in the future.

Cheers,
--

Laury

Dianne Lewandowski ) writes:
(snip)
4. Having threads of uneven lengths . . . hmmmm . . . our resident
engineer (Jim Cripwell) might be able to lend some theories, but that
generally has to do with how we handle thread. Unless (just thinking
out loud) there might be more "drag" on the DMC strands.
(snip)
Dianne

Count me out on this one. It happens to me all the time, and I have
only a vague idea why. Obviously one thread takes a longer course than
the other.
--
Jim Cripwell.
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of one's life, any
time that is spent in stitching.
Adapted from a sign on The Cobb, Lyme Regis, England.

Hi Laury, I recently had a class with Rae Iverson...one of her beautiful etuis.
She uses Anchor for the reasons you mentioned. Her work is fantastic and so
very precise. Thought you might be interested after your tests with DMC and
Anchor. Boo

Interesting experiment, Laury!

Laury Walkey wrote:
I had less uneven strands at the end of the length which went
through the needle: ie, both strands were close to the same length
rather than having one longer than the other.
In my limited experience (I've never used Anchor), I've found that
sometimes there's a huge difference at the end, sometimes they end up
the same length--and that's using floss from the same skein! Have never
figured that one out.

And Dianne wrote:

3. Old skeins of DMC don't become quite the rat's nest as the newer
skeins. Must be a manufacturing problem.


Maybe you've already figured this out, but here's what I discovered:
Old skeins (black labels): if you pull the thread from the end
*opposite* the number label, it pulls from the inside of the skein, like
in pull-skeins of yarn.
New skeins (with the longer labels w/ the barcode and number on them)
you have to pull from the *numbered* end, which pulls from the inside of
the skein.
I've had *very* few rats' nests since I figured this out.
HTH.

--
Joan

See my first-ever design he
http://www.heritageshoppe.com/joan.jpg

"Stitch when you are young and poor, frame when you are old and rich."
- Elizabeth's (rctn'r) sister's MIL (Barbara Marr)

Aha! Thanks Joan!
Dianne

Joan Erickson wrote:

Maybe you've already figured this out, but here's what I discovered:
Old skeins (black labels): if you pull the thread from the end
*opposite* the number label, it pulls from the inside of the skein, like
in pull-skeins of yarn.
New skeins (with the longer labels w/ the barcode and number on
them) you have to pull from the *numbered* end, which pulls from the
inside of the skein.
I've had *very* few rats' nests since I figured this out.
HTH.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:59:02 -0600, Joan Erickson
wrote:

And Dianne wrote:

3. Old skeins of DMC don't become quite the rat's nest as the newer
skeins. Must be a manufacturing problem.


Maybe you've already figured this out, but here's what I discovered:
Old skeins (black labels): if you pull the thread from the end
*opposite* the number label, it pulls from the inside of the skein, like
in pull-skeins of yarn.
New skeins (with the longer labels w/ the barcode and number on them)
you have to pull from the *numbered* end, which pulls from the inside of
the skein.
I've had *very* few rats' nests since I figured this out.
HTH.

Thanks for that info. I'll try it out, anything to stop having the
rats nest happen as I pull out the floss.
Debra in VA

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:

What an interesting "experiment".

My questions/thoughts a
1. You mentioned sheen prior to using. What about sheen AFTER using?

I don't seem to notice a difference. I can send scans to anyone who is
interested in seeing both finished products.

2. I've not had problems splitting strands from a bundle, no matter
what I use. Perhaps it's your technique? Or, maybe I misunderstood
what you were trying to say.

3. Old skeins of DMC don't become quite the rat's nest as the newer
skeins. Must be a manufacturing problem.

4. Having threads of uneven lengths . . . hmmmm . . . our resident
engineer (Jim Cripwell) might be able to lend some theories, but that
generally has to do with how we handle thread. Unless (just thinking
out loud) there might be more "drag" on the DMC strands.

5. I've stitched with a variety of threads and would like to know more
about your problems with "unruly" DMC threads. Bunched and unparallel
threads are because (I believe) of the way you are handling them, thus
laying tools are often used. Koreans use their fingers as laying tools,
by the way. I frequently use my thumbnail. I just don't understand why
there would be this particular problem between the thread brands. Not
disputing your findings, just wondering why that might be so?

I found that the DMC seemed more resistant to coming through the fabric, like
there was more drag as you said above. DMC feels a bit coarser to my touch
than the Anchor did and I wonder if it has anything to do with how the threads
are finished. I don't know anything about how they are manufactured, but did
notice that each of the Anchor cards said the threads are double mercerized; I
don't know how many times DMC is mercerized during manufacture. Maybe that is
a factor? I think that as the DMC feels a tad more coarse, that it catches on
itself and the fabric as its stitched. The Anchor laid down almost
effortlessly and drew through the fabric nice and slick.

6. One of the things you didn't mention was coverage. Did you notice a
difference?

I only noticed a difference with DMC 606 which seemed a bit plumper thread
than its Anchor counterpart and covered the stitch ground a bit more.
Otherwise, I saw no difference.

7. Because personal bias (not saying you consciously have any - and
indeed, you seemed to start this project with no pre-conceived notions)
plays a role in outcomes of these type of experiments, it's hard to know
for sure whether you changed stitching habits during the process.

I stitched both projects in matching hoops, 2 strands, English cross stitch
(ie complete one stitch at a time). I don't use a laying tool though I do lay
the thread for my top stitch across the stitching area in the direction of the
stitch (ie bottom right corner to upper left), then railroad it as I draw the
floss through the fabric. This is my usual way of stitching anyway and so I
used it on both projects uniformly.

That is easily resolved by being handed threads and not knowing which
you are using. Of course, you couldn't do a "real" project that way,
but if you had a diagram/graph which just said, *green* and somebody
handed you green, you wouldn't know. You stitched an actual project and
used the suggested colors. An objective test like this, I would think,
would have to have a geometric print with just primary/secondary colors
by color name only.

Interesting that the blending of colors was better in the DMC line. I
hadn't noticed anyone mentioning that in the past. Of course, I could
have just forgotten, too.

It would be better to pull the shade ranges for each brand and make the
comparison that way, eg: pull the DMC 3011, 3012, 3013 Khaki green shades and
their corresponding Khaki green shades in Anchor and compare the skeins/cards
first. I merely relied on the conversion chart I chose to find a comparable
color in the Anchor line as the chart called for DMC.

Thanks for sharing. An interesting read. I'm gonna keep these thoughts
in my mental file drawer. :-)
Dianne

I also forgot to mention that I used the floss conversion chart at Annabella's
Cross Stitch Corner http://www.annabella.net/floss.html which seemed to
give a good conversion. I noticed that the Anchor tangerines & reds were
fairly close in shade to their DMC counterparts, but as I said before, there
is a noticeable difference in the shades of green.

Cheers,
--

Laury

On 3/5/04 6:14 PM,"Boohoo1971" posted:

Hi Laury, I recently had a class with Rae Iverson...one of her beautiful
etuis.
She uses Anchor for the reasons you mentioned. Her work is fantastic and so
very precise. Thought you might be interested after your tests with DMC and
Anchor. Boo

Ooooh, I am so jealous! Bet you had a great time in the class. We were
trying to get Rae here for a class, but she is so booked - over 2 years to
get her to come. Are you going to post a picture of your etui?

Ellice

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:

Aha! Thanks Joan!
You're welcome! Although I'm good at getting knots and tangles out, I
knew there *had* to be a reason for the difference. I'm stubborn (and
anal LOL!) enough to figure those types of things out.

--
Joan

See my first-ever design he
http://www.heritageshoppe.com/joan.jpg

"Stitch when you are young and poor, frame when you are old and rich."
- Elizabeth's (rctn'r) sister's MIL (Barbara Marr)