Pumpkin Muffins!

erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and
needs help understanding the world around her.

Allaya

Gwendoline Kelly wrote:
Shelagh you are so right - fortunately I never had any tantrums to put up
with but they just knew that they could not ask for things in the shops etc
and also knew that mum loved them - they only need to know three things
:yes"means yes, and "no" means no, and I love you. End of story - no
unruly kids !! God bless Gwen



--

Gwen Kelly


"Shillelagh" wrote in message
...

Good advice Barbara....

My kids only had tantrums once or twice each, because they realized it
didn't do them any good. If we were out, we went back to the car and they
were put in the back seat to thrash around and scream for as long as it

took

for them to stop. I usually had a newspaper or a book with me to read.

If

we were at home, they were put in their crib and I closed the bedroom door
and let them scream. Ignoring it is the only way.

I love my kids dearly....but when they were little they never ruled my

life,

I ruled theirs. Remember the old saying "You do it because I said so"...
or "because I'm the Mom".

I don't believe in pussy footing around with kids. If they think they've
gotten the upper hand.... you're toast. Being firm but loving also means
better behaved kids. ;)

Shelagh


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:41:14 -0600, Allaya wrote:


Oh, they're just fine, Nora! Cadence prefers to sleep while strapped

to

mommy, and Lammy is full of pumpkin muffins. But just as a general
question thrown out to all moms who have ever had a two year old...how
do you deal with the tantrums, sleep fighting, and not listening to mom
(it's driving me crazy!)?

The sleep fighting sometimes means they're over tired and should be
going to bed a bit earlier or maybe taking a longer nap. I would put
her to bed with a favorite toy, telling her that she has to stay in
her bed; she can play quietly if she likes, but she can't call mommy
until the sun comes back tomorrow morning. The first few nights, I
might return to remind her firmly that mommy can't come to get her
until the morning, but I would refuse to discuss anything else. Be as
boring as you can possibly be.

The "not listening to mom" depends. First, keep the rules to a
minimum. Only forbid things that you're going to be willing to take a
stand on, because if later you decide it's not worth it, you've taught
your kid that sometimes you mean what you say and sometimes you don't.
Once you've told a child they can't do something, you have to make
sure they don't succeed in doing it. Remove them from the scene, or
take the object away from them and put it out of their reach, or
whatever is necessary to make them resist from the forbidden
behaviour. Never repeatedly tell a child to do or not do something
without following through to make sure your instructions were
followed. This may cause a tantrum, see below.

If it's something you've told them they have to do, such as put down
their book and leave the library, then you have to make sure they do
it, even at the cost of physically carrying them off. Never ask a
child's advice or consent to something they have to do. It's dishonest
to pretend it's their choice if it isn't. I used to see parents
saying, "Let's leave the playground now and go to the supermarket."
The kid's reaction is surely going to be, "Let's not." Instead say, "I
have to go shopping now. We can come back here another day." It's a
good idea to give a two-minute warning, but once you've said it's time
to go, don't allow delays.

My oldest daughter occasionally had tantrums. You have to totally
ignore the supposed casis belli, other than to state your position
firmly just one time: "No, you cannot watch TV now. It's out of the
question." "You cannot have your hammer if you use it to hit the
table." Once the tantrum is under way, don't bring up that subject
again. Just totally ignore the screaming, kicking, breath-holding
little creature.

If it goes on too long and it's getting on your nerves, you can treat
the tantrum as an unfortunate occurrence, maybe like a bump on the
head. I used to say to my daughter, "You really are feeling bad just
now, aren't you?" Then I would get a damp washcloth and hold her in my
lap and hold it on her forehead for a minute, saying, "Maybe this will
make you feel better." If she still screamed, I would say, "I think
you need to rest in your crib until you feel better." Then I would put
her gently in her crib and say, "Call me when you're feeling better."
and leave the room.

This worked very well. Alone in her crib with no attention at all
given to her tantrum, she generally recovered almost instantly. When
we were out, if she had a tantrum, I had only to say, "When we get
home, I'll let you rest in your crib for a few minutes and you'll feel
better." Then I would totally ignore the shenanigans unless she was
beginning to damage property or persons." In that case, or if it was a
place where noise was inappropriate, I would take her outside, saying,
"We can't stay here while you're making so much noise/throwing things
around. It's annoying the other people." I also used to tell my kids
when we went into a place where noise was inappropriate, "This is a
very grownup place. You have to be very grownup to come in here."

The key is to remain completely calm and unemotional and not to
discuss the matter that caused the tantrum. Kids learn quickly that
the tantrum achieves absolutely nothing, and doesn't even get them any
attention.

Two year olds want very much to have a little autonomy, It helps a lot
to give them some autonomy in things that are appropriate. In other
words, it's not their choice whether to have a bath or not, but you
can give them a choice of the pink soap or the yellow soap. They can't
wear their shorts to school in January, but you can take out two
appropriate outfits and ask them which one they want to wear.
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero

dot it.

Allaya, I'm sure whoever changed the subject line to "unruly kids" wasn't
referring to *your* little one... just kids in general. )

Two is a difficult age for little ones... they are learning so much so fast,
and want to know it all at once... sometimes it makes them think that they
know better than adults. Personally I classify unruly kids as much older
than two, who the parents have let rule the roost for far too long and now
they find that they can't undo what has been done. Unfortunate for both the
parents and the children.

Gemini

"Allaya" wrote in message
news:29Rhf.6698$Wu.3685@fed1read05...
erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and needs
help understanding the world around her.

Allaya

Gwendoline Kelly wrote:
Shelagh you are so right - fortunately I never had any tantrums to put up
with but they just knew that they could not ask for things in the shops
etc
and also knew that mum loved them - they only need to know three things
:yes"means yes, and "no" means no, and I love you. End of story - no
unruly kids !! God bless Gwen



--

Gwen Kelly


"Shillelagh" wrote in message
...

Good advice Barbara....

My kids only had tantrums once or twice each, because they realized it
didn't do them any good. If we were out, we went back to the car and
they
were put in the back seat to thrash around and scream for as long as it

took

for them to stop. I usually had a newspaper or a book with me to read.

If

we were at home, they were put in their crib and I closed the bedroom
door
and let them scream. Ignoring it is the only way.

I love my kids dearly....but when they were little they never ruled my

life,

I ruled theirs. Remember the old saying "You do it because I said so"...
or "because I'm the Mom".

I don't believe in pussy footing around with kids. If they think they've
gotten the upper hand.... you're toast. Being firm but loving also
means
better behaved kids. ;)

Shelagh


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:41:14 -0600, Allaya wrote:


Oh, they're just fine, Nora! Cadence prefers to sleep while strapped

to

mommy, and Lammy is full of pumpkin muffins. But just as a general
question thrown out to all moms who have ever had a two year old...how
do you deal with the tantrums, sleep fighting, and not listening to mom
(it's driving me crazy!)?

The sleep fighting sometimes means they're over tired and should be
going to bed a bit earlier or maybe taking a longer nap. I would put
her to bed with a favorite toy, telling her that she has to stay in
her bed; she can play quietly if she likes, but she can't call mommy
until the sun comes back tomorrow morning. The first few nights, I
might return to remind her firmly that mommy can't come to get her
until the morning, but I would refuse to discuss anything else. Be as
boring as you can possibly be.

The "not listening to mom" depends. First, keep the rules to a
minimum. Only forbid things that you're going to be willing to take a
stand on, because if later you decide it's not worth it, you've taught
your kid that sometimes you mean what you say and sometimes you don't.
Once you've told a child they can't do something, you have to make
sure they don't succeed in doing it. Remove them from the scene, or
take the object away from them and put it out of their reach, or
whatever is necessary to make them resist from the forbidden
behaviour. Never repeatedly tell a child to do or not do something
without following through to make sure your instructions were
followed. This may cause a tantrum, see below.

If it's something you've told them they have to do, such as put down
their book and leave the library, then you have to make sure they do
it, even at the cost of physically carrying them off. Never ask a
child's advice or consent to something they have to do. It's dishonest
to pretend it's their choice if it isn't. I used to see parents
saying, "Let's leave the playground now and go to the supermarket."
The kid's reaction is surely going to be, "Let's not." Instead say, "I
have to go shopping now. We can come back here another day." It's a
good idea to give a two-minute warning, but once you've said it's time
to go, don't allow delays.

My oldest daughter occasionally had tantrums. You have to totally
ignore the supposed casis belli, other than to state your position
firmly just one time: "No, you cannot watch TV now. It's out of the
question." "You cannot have your hammer if you use it to hit the
table." Once the tantrum is under way, don't bring up that subject
again. Just totally ignore the screaming, kicking, breath-holding
little creature.

If it goes on too long and it's getting on your nerves, you can treat
the tantrum as an unfortunate occurrence, maybe like a bump on the
head. I used to say to my daughter, "You really are feeling bad just
now, aren't you?" Then I would get a damp washcloth and hold her in my
lap and hold it on her forehead for a minute, saying, "Maybe this will
make you feel better." If she still screamed, I would say, "I think
you need to rest in your crib until you feel better." Then I would put
her gently in her crib and say, "Call me when you're feeling better."
and leave the room.

This worked very well. Alone in her crib with no attention at all
given to her tantrum, she generally recovered almost instantly. When
we were out, if she had a tantrum, I had only to say, "When we get
home, I'll let you rest in your crib for a few minutes and you'll feel
better." Then I would totally ignore the shenanigans unless she was
beginning to damage property or persons." In that case, or if it was a
place where noise was inappropriate, I would take her outside, saying,
"We can't stay here while you're making so much noise/throwing things
around. It's annoying the other people." I also used to tell my kids
when we went into a place where noise was inappropriate, "This is a
very grownup place. You have to be very grownup to come in here."

The key is to remain completely calm and unemotional and not to
discuss the matter that caused the tantrum. Kids learn quickly that
the tantrum achieves absolutely nothing, and doesn't even get them any
attention.

Two year olds want very much to have a little autonomy, It helps a lot
to give them some autonomy in things that are appropriate. In other
words, it's not their choice whether to have a bath or not, but you
can give them a choice of the pink soap or the yellow soap. They can't
wear their shorts to school in January, but you can take out two
appropriate outfits and ask them which one they want to wear.
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero

dot it.

Allaya - sorry I seem to have missed something here - I have not seen a
mention of any two year old - just general unruly kids and it takes longer
than two years to become what I would term "unruly".

By the way, I do recall when your little girl was a baby she had lots of
troubles - I hope she is much better now - having not heard of her progress
I have assumed that she recovered from her illnesses. God bless Gwen

--

Gwen Kelly


"Allaya" wrote in message
news:29Rhf.6698$Wu.3685@fed1read05...
erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and
needs help understanding the world around her.

Allaya

Gwendoline Kelly wrote:
Shelagh you are so right - fortunately I never had any tantrums to put
up
with but they just knew that they could not ask for things in the shops
etc
and also knew that mum loved them - they only need to know three things
:yes"means yes, and "no" means no, and I love you. End of story - no
unruly kids !! God bless Gwen



--

Gwen Kelly


"Shillelagh" wrote in message
...

Good advice Barbara....

My kids only had tantrums once or twice each, because they realized it
didn't do them any good. If we were out, we went back to the car and
they
were put in the back seat to thrash around and scream for as long as it

took

for them to stop. I usually had a newspaper or a book with me to read.

If

we were at home, they were put in their crib and I closed the bedroom
door
and let them scream. Ignoring it is the only way.

I love my kids dearly....but when they were little they never ruled my

life,

I ruled theirs. Remember the old saying "You do it because I said
so"...
or "because I'm the Mom".

I don't believe in pussy footing around with kids. If they think
they've
gotten the upper hand.... you're toast. Being firm but loving also
means
better behaved kids. ;)

Shelagh


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:41:14 -0600, Allaya wrote:


Oh, they're just fine, Nora! Cadence prefers to sleep while strapped

to

mommy, and Lammy is full of pumpkin muffins. But just as a
general
question thrown out to all moms who have ever had a two year old...how
do you deal with the tantrums, sleep fighting, and not listening to
mom
(it's driving me crazy!)?

The sleep fighting sometimes means they're over tired and should be
going to bed a bit earlier or maybe taking a longer nap. I would put
her to bed with a favorite toy, telling her that she has to stay in
her bed; she can play quietly if she likes, but she can't call mommy
until the sun comes back tomorrow morning. The first few nights, I
might return to remind her firmly that mommy can't come to get her
until the morning, but I would refuse to discuss anything else. Be as
boring as you can possibly be.

The "not listening to mom" depends. First, keep the rules to a
minimum. Only forbid things that you're going to be willing to take a
stand on, because if later you decide it's not worth it, you've taught
your kid that sometimes you mean what you say and sometimes you don't.
Once you've told a child they can't do something, you have to make
sure they don't succeed in doing it. Remove them from the scene, or
take the object away from them and put it out of their reach, or
whatever is necessary to make them resist from the forbidden
behaviour. Never repeatedly tell a child to do or not do something
without following through to make sure your instructions were
followed. This may cause a tantrum, see below.

If it's something you've told them they have to do, such as put down
their book and leave the library, then you have to make sure they do
it, even at the cost of physically carrying them off. Never ask a
child's advice or consent to something they have to do. It's dishonest
to pretend it's their choice if it isn't. I used to see parents
saying, "Let's leave the playground now and go to the supermarket."
The kid's reaction is surely going to be, "Let's not." Instead say, "I
have to go shopping now. We can come back here another day." It's a
good idea to give a two-minute warning, but once you've said it's time
to go, don't allow delays.

My oldest daughter occasionally had tantrums. You have to totally
ignore the supposed casis belli, other than to state your position
firmly just one time: "No, you cannot watch TV now. It's out of the
question." "You cannot have your hammer if you use it to hit the
table." Once the tantrum is under way, don't bring up that subject
again. Just totally ignore the screaming, kicking, breath-holding
little creature.

If it goes on too long and it's getting on your nerves, you can treat
the tantrum as an unfortunate occurrence, maybe like a bump on the
head. I used to say to my daughter, "You really are feeling bad just
now, aren't you?" Then I would get a damp washcloth and hold her in my
lap and hold it on her forehead for a minute, saying, "Maybe this will
make you feel better." If she still screamed, I would say, "I think
you need to rest in your crib until you feel better." Then I would put
her gently in her crib and say, "Call me when you're feeling better."
and leave the room.

This worked very well. Alone in her crib with no attention at all
given to her tantrum, she generally recovered almost instantly. When
we were out, if she had a tantrum, I had only to say, "When we get
home, I'll let you rest in your crib for a few minutes and you'll feel
better." Then I would totally ignore the shenanigans unless she was
beginning to damage property or persons." In that case, or if it was a
place where noise was inappropriate, I would take her outside, saying,
"We can't stay here while you're making so much noise/throwing things
around. It's annoying the other people." I also used to tell my kids
when we went into a place where noise was inappropriate, "This is a
very grownup place. You have to be very grownup to come in here."

The key is to remain completely calm and unemotional and not to
discuss the matter that caused the tantrum. Kids learn quickly that
the tantrum achieves absolutely nothing, and doesn't even get them any
attention.

Two year olds want very much to have a little autonomy, It helps a lot
to give them some autonomy in things that are appropriate. In other
words, it's not their choice whether to have a bath or not, but you
can give them a choice of the pink soap or the yellow soap. They can't
wear their shorts to school in January, but you can take out two
appropriate outfits and ask them which one they want to wear.
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero

dot it.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:00:52 -0600, "Shillelagh"
wrote:

Being firm but loving also means
better behaved kids. ;)

I also think kids feel more secure knowing their parents are strong.
The key is also to be loving, to make sure they know you're on their
side. I also used to tell my kids, when they were older, of course,
"It's my job to raise you so you'll be good citizens and useful
members of society."
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

"Allaya" wrote in message
news:29Rhf.6698$Wu.3685@fed1read05...
erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and
needs help understanding the world around her.

Allaya

Allaya, I don't suppose that Lammy (such a cute name... is that her real
name or a nickname?) is jealous of the new baby, considering that she had
all the attention for two years? The way my parents handled that when they
brought me home from the hospital (I am the baby of the family) was to get
my older brother, who had been the baby for quite a while before I came
along, to sit in a chair and my Mom put me in his arms (only in the chair,
obviously). When she presented me to him she said "This is YOUR baby, so
you have to help to take care of her, okay?" Frank took my Mom at her word
and brought everyone in to see HIS baby, and he helped to take care of me,
and was very protective of me as I was growing up (and even somewhat into my
early adult years... I'm sure if I needed, he would still do whatever he
could to protect me physically).... and he was never jealous of me at all.
My brother and I have a very close bond to this day! We rarely talk on the
phone (he is in Saskatchewan and we are both low on financial funds quite
often so can't make those long distance calls), but we both know that if
either of us needed the other and there was anything at all that we could do
to get there, we would. )

Just a thought that I figured couldn't hurt to mention, just in case Lammy
is feeling a bit replaced in the attention area. )

Gemini

Lammy's her nickname...it just stuck. Her real name is Laine. But
honestly, I don't think she's jealous of the new baby at all. She
absolutely loves her to pieces. I didn't need to sit her down or
anything, because she actually sat down beside me, pointed to the baby
and said, "Lammy's baby." ...which was as cute as can be, by the way.

However, she IS still only two years old, and we're in the middle of a
move, and there's a new baby taking up all of mommy's time, and mommy
doesn't have anybody to help, so poor Lammy has to be bored and do a lot
of waiting sometimes. That's what I feel the worst about. So it's not
a wonder she acts out and does stuff she's really not supposed to do.
I'm a really high energy person myself, which is why I took up
knitting...I just felt really fidgety when I sat around and my hands
weren't doing anything...so I understand how maddening it must be to her
to be bored off her rocker.

I'm still trying to recover from this birth experience, so I'm not
really good at sitting down on the floor and reading books and stuff
like I used to be. That must be hard for her to take too. The thing is,
she's so distracted with the baby that she wants to be around us all
the time, so she's totally stopped playing by herself, which makes
things problematic. At least when I was pregnant, she would go off and
draw pictures and stuff. SHe would even feed herself...now, I not only
have to be with her ALL the time, but I have to feed her too, and it's
become a real battle because that means chasing her down sometimes. I
can't in good conscience be too strict on meal time limitations because
she's barely registering on the growth charts in her age/weight category
(very underweight)...but it's pretty maddening sometimes, because it
usually comes down to either her eating or me eating. So as a
compromise, some days I eat only one meal, and sometimes she eats one
meal. :P

....Which brings up another issue...since Lammy only acts out when she's
bored, that usually means that it's while I'm feeding her sister or
putting her to sleep. Soooooo I usually can't correct her on as many
things as I'd like because that would mean the baby not eating either!
It's all so frustrating, I go insane at least once a day. Such is life
with two high-needs children. *sigh*

Oh, to just have one again!

Allaya

MRH wrote:
"Allaya" wrote in message
news:29Rhf.6698$Wu.3685@fed1read05...

erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and
needs help understanding the world around her.

Allaya


Allaya, I don't suppose that Lammy (such a cute name... is that her real
name or a nickname?) is jealous of the new baby, considering that she had
all the attention for two years? The way my parents handled that when they
brought me home from the hospital (I am the baby of the family) was to get
my older brother, who had been the baby for quite a while before I came
along, to sit in a chair and my Mom put me in his arms (only in the chair,
obviously). When she presented me to him she said "This is YOUR baby, so
you have to help to take care of her, okay?" Frank took my Mom at her word
and brought everyone in to see HIS baby, and he helped to take care of me,
and was very protective of me as I was growing up (and even somewhat into my
early adult years... I'm sure if I needed, he would still do whatever he
could to protect me physically).... and he was never jealous of me at all.
My brother and I have a very close bond to this day! We rarely talk on the
phone (he is in Saskatchewan and we are both low on financial funds quite
often so can't make those long distance calls), but we both know that if
either of us needed the other and there was anything at all that we could do
to get there, we would. )

Just a thought that I figured couldn't hurt to mention, just in case Lammy
is feeling a bit replaced in the attention area. )

Gemini

In article zjtif.7096$Wu.116@fed1read05, Allaya wrote:

Lammy's her nickname...it just stuck. Her real name is Laine. But
honestly, I don't think she's jealous of the new baby at all. She
absolutely loves her to pieces. I didn't need to sit her down or
anything, because she actually sat down beside me, pointed to the baby
and said, "Lammy's baby." ...which was as cute as can be, by the way.

However, she IS still only two years old, and we're in the middle of a
move, and there's a new baby taking up all of mommy's time, and mommy
doesn't have anybody to help, so poor Lammy has to be bored and do a lot
of waiting sometimes. That's what I feel the worst about. So it's not
a wonder she acts out and does stuff she's really not supposed to do.
I'm a really high energy person myself, which is why I took up
knitting...I just felt really fidgety when I sat around and my hands
weren't doing anything...so I understand how maddening it must be to her
to be bored off her rocker.

I'm still trying to recover from this birth experience, so I'm not
really good at sitting down on the floor and reading books and stuff
like I used to be. That must be hard for her to take too. The thing is,
she's so distracted with the baby that she wants to be around us all
the time, so she's totally stopped playing by herself, which makes
things problematic. At least when I was pregnant, she would go off and
draw pictures and stuff. SHe would even feed herself...now, I not only
have to be with her ALL the time, but I have to feed her too, and it's
become a real battle because that means chasing her down sometimes. I
can't in good conscience be too strict on meal time limitations because
she's barely registering on the growth charts in her age/weight category
(very underweight)...but it's pretty maddening sometimes, because it
usually comes down to either her eating or me eating. So as a
compromise, some days I eat only one meal, and sometimes she eats one
meal. :P

...Which brings up another issue...since Lammy only acts out when she's
bored, that usually means that it's while I'm feeding her sister or
putting her to sleep. Soooooo I usually can't correct her on as many
things as I'd like because that would mean the baby not eating either!
It's all so frustrating, I go insane at least once a day. Such is life
with two high-needs children. *sigh*

Oh, to just have one again!

Allaya


Hello Allaya, it does not matter what you might call it, but you already
put your own finger on the problem, if that is what you want to call it.
I would say it is not a problem, but the norm for the first born to act
like this when the second child comes along. Always when you are changing
diapers, feeding the baby or occupied with tending to the baby. Lammy was
used to all the attentions and now, if she likes it or not she has to
share you and daddy with the new baby. On the one hand, she will show you
that she loves the baby and so she does, on the other hand when you are
feeding her she will act up so you have to give her some attention as
well. You have to get used to having to do twice as much work, share all
your careing two ways plus a hefty share to Daddy as well. Lammie has to
get used to not being number one anymore. Maybe even harder because she
had so many health problems in the beginning of her young life. Go by
instinct, give her a bit more time when the baby is asleep, she will
adjust it time.

We went throught that with our children and I watched how my daughter is
going through it with her two daughters. One is a little over 5 and the
other is nearly 2 years old. It is interesting to see how many paralells
there are. If you can take some time for yourself here and there and
share some mom and daughter time, when the baby is asleep things will work
out. Have some interesting toys ready when the baby is breast feeding and
let Lammy help with the change of the diapers. Let her get a new diaper
or if it is just a wet diaper, she can put it in the diaper bucket. She
could bring you your feeding pillow if you use one or the little cloth to
wipe the baby's face. Lammy will feel that she is helping and at the same
time that she is part of the whole process. Maybe at times your husband
can take up the slack and play with lammy at night while you look after
the baby. It takes some adjusting, but in the end you will make it work,
all mothers do in the end.

Enjoy, and try to get lots of sleep.

Els

Allaya, I do not know if this will help or not. I kind of gather from you
post that little lammy liked you reading to her - which she obviously misses
while you are so busy.

When I had Colleen ( DD #2 )I found she had to have her milk very slowly or
be ill and so each feed took a whole hour. During this time Shauna would
share my lap and bring a book to read - every day the same book - A is an
apple pie, B took it, C cut it etc etc so for the eight months I breast fed
Colleen that book was read to her -actually by the middle of that time she
read it to me , as she was 3 by then..

I figured I never ever wanted to hear that book again but it certainly made
Shauna feel very wanted as she shared the very time that would have been
exclusively Colleen's.
( incidently Shauna still has the book 41 years later, and delights in
quoting it to me occasionally whenever the subject of reading to children
comes up) God Bless gwen
--

Gwen Kelly


"Allaya" wrote in message
news:zjtif.7096$Wu.116@fed1read05...
Lammy's her nickname...it just stuck. Her real name is Laine. But
honestly, I don't think she's jealous of the new baby at all. She
absolutely loves her to pieces. I didn't need to sit her down or
anything, because she actually sat down beside me, pointed to the baby
and said, "Lammy's baby." ...which was as cute as can be, by the way.

However, she IS still only two years old, and we're in the middle of a
move, and there's a new baby taking up all of mommy's time, and mommy
doesn't have anybody to help, so poor Lammy has to be bored and do a lot
of waiting sometimes. That's what I feel the worst about. So it's not
a wonder she acts out and does stuff she's really not supposed to do.
I'm a really high energy person myself, which is why I took up
knitting...I just felt really fidgety when I sat around and my hands
weren't doing anything...so I understand how maddening it must be to her
to be bored off her rocker.

I'm still trying to recover from this birth experience, so I'm not
really good at sitting down on the floor and reading books and stuff
like I used to be. That must be hard for her to take too. The thing is,
she's so distracted with the baby that she wants to be around us all
the time, so she's totally stopped playing by herself, which makes
things problematic. At least when I was pregnant, she would go off and
draw pictures and stuff. SHe would even feed herself...now, I not only
have to be with her ALL the time, but I have to feed her too, and it's
become a real battle because that means chasing her down sometimes. I
can't in good conscience be too strict on meal time limitations because
she's barely registering on the growth charts in her age/weight category
(very underweight)...but it's pretty maddening sometimes, because it
usually comes down to either her eating or me eating. So as a
compromise, some days I eat only one meal, and sometimes she eats one
meal. :P

...Which brings up another issue...since Lammy only acts out when she's
bored, that usually means that it's while I'm feeding her sister or
putting her to sleep. Soooooo I usually can't correct her on as many
things as I'd like because that would mean the baby not eating either!
It's all so frustrating, I go insane at least once a day. Such is life
with two high-needs children. *sigh*

Oh, to just have one again!

Allaya

MRH wrote:
"Allaya" wrote in message
news:29Rhf.6698$Wu.3685@fed1read05...

erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and
needs help understanding the world around her.

Allaya


Allaya, I don't suppose that Lammy (such a cute name... is that her real
name or a nickname?) is jealous of the new baby, considering that she
had
all the attention for two years? The way my parents handled that when
they
brought me home from the hospital (I am the baby of the family) was to
get
my older brother, who had been the baby for quite a while before I came
along, to sit in a chair and my Mom put me in his arms (only in the
chair,
obviously). When she presented me to him she said "This is YOUR baby,
so
you have to help to take care of her, okay?" Frank took my Mom at her
word
and brought everyone in to see HIS baby, and he helped to take care of
me,
and was very protective of me as I was growing up (and even somewhat
into my
early adult years... I'm sure if I needed, he would still do whatever he
could to protect me physically).... and he was never jealous of me at
all.
My brother and I have a very close bond to this day! We rarely talk on
the
phone (he is in Saskatchewan and we are both low on financial funds
quite
often so can't make those long distance calls), but we both know that if
either of us needed the other and there was anything at all that we
could do
to get there, we would. )

Just a thought that I figured couldn't hurt to mention, just in case
Lammy
is feeling a bit replaced in the attention area. )

Gemini

Wonderful advice Els!

Shelagh


"Els van Dam" wrote in message
news:jacoba-2711051949550001@d207-216-7-
Hello Allaya, it does not matter what you might call it, but you already
put your own finger on the problem, if that is what you want to call it.
I would say it is not a problem, but the norm for the first born to act
like this when the second child comes along. Always when you are changing
diapers, feeding the baby or occupied with tending to the baby. Lammy was
used to all the attentions and now, if she likes it or not she has to
share you and daddy with the new baby. On the one hand, she will show you
that she loves the baby and so she does, on the other hand when you are
feeding her she will act up so you have to give her some attention as
well. You have to get used to having to do twice as much work, share all
your careing two ways plus a hefty share to Daddy as well. Lammie has to
get used to not being number one anymore. Maybe even harder because she
had so many health problems in the beginning of her young life. Go by
instinct, give her a bit more time when the baby is asleep, she will
adjust it time.

We went throught that with our children and I watched how my daughter is
going through it with her two daughters. One is a little over 5 and the
other is nearly 2 years old. It is interesting to see how many paralells
there are. If you can take some time for yourself here and there and
share some mom and daughter time, when the baby is asleep things will work
out. Have some interesting toys ready when the baby is breast feeding and
let Lammy help with the change of the diapers. Let her get a new diaper
or if it is just a wet diaper, she can put it in the diaper bucket. She
could bring you your feeding pillow if you use one or the little cloth to
wipe the baby's face. Lammy will feel that she is helping and at the same
time that she is part of the whole process. Maybe at times your husband
can take up the slack and play with lammy at night while you look after
the baby. It takes some adjusting, but in the end you will make it work,
all mothers do in the end.

Enjoy, and try to get lots of sleep.

Els

Hi Allaya:

I haven't posted in a long while here but have been reading off and on.

I can relate to your frustration. My older kids were only 20 months apart
and it was WORK. They both had some needs that required special attention.
They did spend a lot of their early yrs bickering and I thought i would
never live to tell about it. The only help I had was me, myself and I. We
had moved a long way from family.
In time things worked out, he is now 18...she is 16 and they get along very
very well. They even have some classes at highschool together and team up as
partners.
I have a 4 yr old daughter and she is obviously alone. That is a situation
in itself with regards to playing and keeping herself busy.
I wish you well and hang in there, things will improve....."time" is the
key!


Take Care
Donna from Ontario, Canada








"Allaya" wrote in message
news:zjtif.7096$Wu.116@fed1read05...
Lammy's her nickname...it just stuck. Her real name is Laine. But
honestly, I don't think she's jealous of the new baby at all. She
absolutely loves her to pieces. I didn't need to sit her down or
anything, because she actually sat down beside me, pointed to the baby
and said, "Lammy's baby." ...which was as cute as can be, by the way.

However, she IS still only two years old, and we're in the middle of a
move, and there's a new baby taking up all of mommy's time, and mommy
doesn't have anybody to help, so poor Lammy has to be bored and do a lot
of waiting sometimes. That's what I feel the worst about. So it's not
a wonder she acts out and does stuff she's really not supposed to do.
I'm a really high energy person myself, which is why I took up
knitting...I just felt really fidgety when I sat around and my hands
weren't doing anything...so I understand how maddening it must be to her
to be bored off her rocker.

I'm still trying to recover from this birth experience, so I'm not
really good at sitting down on the floor and reading books and stuff
like I used to be. That must be hard for her to take too. The thing is,
she's so distracted with the baby that she wants to be around us all
the time, so she's totally stopped playing by herself, which makes
things problematic. At least when I was pregnant, she would go off and
draw pictures and stuff. SHe would even feed herself...now, I not only
have to be with her ALL the time, but I have to feed her too, and it's
become a real battle because that means chasing her down sometimes. I
can't in good conscience be too strict on meal time limitations because
she's barely registering on the growth charts in her age/weight category
(very underweight)...but it's pretty maddening sometimes, because it
usually comes down to either her eating or me eating. So as a
compromise, some days I eat only one meal, and sometimes she eats one
meal. :P

...Which brings up another issue...since Lammy only acts out when she's
bored, that usually means that it's while I'm feeding her sister or
putting her to sleep. Soooooo I usually can't correct her on as many
things as I'd like because that would mean the baby not eating either!
It's all so frustrating, I go insane at least once a day. Such is life
with two high-needs children. *sigh*

Oh, to just have one again!

Allaya

MRH wrote:
"Allaya" wrote in message
news:29Rhf.6698$Wu.3685@fed1read05...

erm...I don't think Lammy is "unruly" at all...I think she's two and
needs help understanding the world around her.

Allaya


Allaya, I don't suppose that Lammy (such a cute name... is that her real
name or a nickname?) is jealous of the new baby, considering that she
had
all the attention for two years? The way my parents handled that when
they
brought me home from the hospital (I am the baby of the family) was to
get
my older brother, who had been the baby for quite a while before I came
along, to sit in a chair and my Mom put me in his arms (only in the
chair,
obviously). When she presented me to him she said "This is YOUR baby,
so
you have to help to take care of her, okay?" Frank took my Mom at her
word
and brought everyone in to see HIS baby, and he helped to take care of
me,
and was very protective of me as I was growing up (and even somewhat
into my
early adult years... I'm sure if I needed, he would still do whatever he
could to protect me physically).... and he was never jealous of me at
all.
My brother and I have a very close bond to this day! We rarely talk on
the
phone (he is in Saskatchewan and we are both low on financial funds
quite
often so can't make those long distance calls), but we both know that if
either of us needed the other and there was anything at all that we
could do
to get there, we would. )

Just a thought that I figured couldn't hurt to mention, just in case
Lammy
is feeling a bit replaced in the attention area. )

Gemini