A question for lampworkers

Oh, I completely understand. I never thought you implied that. I just
get the feeling that when some buyers talk about being able to buy beads for
really low, they are asking for those of us who sell higher to justify that,
or to sell lower because others do. So much goes into the pricing that it's
really hard to compare everyone. And the artistic factor cannot be
compared. No two lampworkers are going to give you the same answer. It may
be difficult for you as the querant to get the answers you need because this
is an art and is difficult to quantify.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Kandice,
I hope I didnt give the impression that I wanted anyone to justify the
price of their beads. Nooooo... I rejoice when I see one of RCB's artists
auctions going high. I dont mind that they are out of my price range at
this
point. Someday, perhaps, they wont be.
I want every artist who loves what they are doing as much as you and
every
other bead artist whose joy shows so obviously in their work to get paid
scad loads of money so you can keep on doing it!
Im just a curious soul... I love to ask questions. There is no need *ever*
for an artist to justify a price they set on their work. Thats what the
consumer might do.. justify the price they pay*, but to me the artist is
free to set any price they want to and its up to the consumer to decide if
that object is worth that price.
Hugs
Diana
*ps. picture the beader who has come home with a fabulous bead that has
used
up all the food money . Id say they better come up with a really good
reason to explain to the family why they are eatting top ramen for the
rest
of the month. ;-)

"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
The more expensive colors tend to be more popular with buyers, because
the
colors are really spectacular. So buyers tend to go ahead and pay more
for
the really gorgeous stuff. Ink blue, dark lavender, gold pink, silver
pink,
opal yellow, copper green, etc. are all more expensive because they are
handpulled and some contain precious metals - people love these colors
in
beads.
I have never had any problems justifying my prices. Never. Not one
time.
I've been told countless times to increase them. And I did when things
were
getting out of hand and I couldn't keep up. Didn't help. People still
wanted the beads, even at higher prices. Dammit, I sould like such a
snob,
but it's true.
There's something also about lampwork that you just cannot quantify or
put
into a formula, and that's the artistic side. Pricing is hard, and I
admi
t
that sometimes I just fly by the seat of my pants.
But I have never had anyone tell me that my stuff is not worth the
price.
I
have had people tell me that they can't afford my stuff, but that's
common
no matter what you make. But there are always people in line behind the
people that can't afford it. I really wish I could make beads and sell
them
for cheap to people who can't afford the expensive stuff. But I can't
afford that myself. There's too much work involved in this craft to do
that. Instead I have the weekly giveaway, and I sometimes donate beads
to
charity and such. Then there are BFNR's. I do those when I can.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Thank you all... I am getting a clearer idea of which embellishments
are
harder and why...
Im trying to understand the pricing of beads. Its a fairly obvious
equation
on the face of things: the more time, the more glass, the more
expensive
the
glass and the trickier the technique is to master the higher priced
the
bead
must be. I imagine that each artist could quantify those elements
somehow,
maybe some have, to get a rough idea of the cost to make a bead.
Then comes the trickier part. How much will someone be willing to
pay
for
that particular bead? If I may go back to the example of the beads
Sooz
posted, from all you *plural ya'lls* have described the surface design
on
a
clear bead is not the most challenging design and yet someone may be
willing
to pay more for that than an equally well executed bead made of the
most
expensive and testy types of glass. How do you figure that into your
equations?
I do enjoy reading the steps it takes to create the beautiful beads
you
make. I used to gasp when I looked at the auctions final prices and
now
I
just watch and applaud when they go nice and high. Another bonus is
learning
to see the difference between well done and medium.
Diana

I knew when I asked that each artist would have different answers. I have
read the posts where one talks about loving doing a certain technique and
another artist admits to hating it. I think I was looking for more of a
general idea of what most artists find to be trickiest to do well. I
realize that nothing can totally explain why one artists work will do well
when an equally talented (technique-wise) may not.
Fads, world ecomomy, artist recognition, wonderful marketing ploys, the
moon being in a waning phase.. who knows... it doesnt seem to be hinged
totally on abilty.
Perhaps I wanted to know more about this subject too, because it does give
me a greater appreciation for what lampworkers do. I am seeing that the
simplest looking bead may be very deceptive in its simplicity. Knowing how
that simple looking bead is created can inspire even more awe. ... and
knowledge is something Im good at spreading. :-)
Diana
"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
Oh, I completely understand. I never thought you implied that. I just
get the feeling that when some buyers talk about being able to buy beads
for
really low, they are asking for those of us who sell higher to justify
that,
or to sell lower because others do. So much goes into the pricing that
it's
really hard to compare everyone. And the artistic factor cannot be
compared. No two lampworkers are going to give you the same answer. It
may
be difficult for you as the querant to get the answers you need because
this
is an art and is difficult to quantify.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Kandice,
I hope I didnt give the impression that I wanted anyone to justify the
price of their beads. Nooooo... I rejoice when I see one of RCB's
artists
auctions going high. I dont mind that they are out of my price range at
this
point. Someday, perhaps, they wont be.
I want every artist who loves what they are doing as much as you and
every
other bead artist whose joy shows so obviously in their work to get paid
scad loads of money so you can keep on doing it!
Im just a curious soul... I love to ask questions. There is no need
*ever*
for an artist to justify a price they set on their work. Thats what the
consumer might do.. justify the price they pay*, but to me the artist is
free to set any price they want to and its up to the consumer to decide
if
that object is worth that price.
Hugs
Diana
*ps. picture the beader who has come home with a fabulous bead that has
used
up all the food money . Id say they better come up with a really good
reason to explain to the family why they are eatting top ramen for the
rest
of the month. ;-)

"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
The more expensive colors tend to be more popular with buyers, because
the
colors are really spectacular. So buyers tend to go ahead and pay more
for
the really gorgeous stuff. Ink blue, dark lavender, gold pink, silver
pink,
opal yellow, copper green, etc. are all more expensive because they
are
handpulled and some contain precious metals - people love these colors
in
beads.
I have never had any problems justifying my prices. Never. Not one
time.
I've been told countless times to increase them. And I did when
things
were
getting out of hand and I couldn't keep up. Didn't help. People
still
wanted the beads, even at higher prices. Dammit, I sould like such a
snob,
but it's true.
There's something also about lampwork that you just cannot quantify or
put
into a formula, and that's the artistic side. Pricing is hard, and I
admi
t
that sometimes I just fly by the seat of my pants.
But I have never had anyone tell me that my stuff is not worth the
price.
I
have had people tell me that they can't afford my stuff, but that's
common
no matter what you make. But there are always people in line behind
the
people that can't afford it. I really wish I could make beads and
sell
them
for cheap to people who can't afford the expensive stuff. But I can't
afford that myself. There's too much work involved in this craft to
do
that. Instead I have the weekly giveaway, and I sometimes donate
beads
to
charity and such. Then there are BFNR's. I do those when I can.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Thank you all... I am getting a clearer idea of which
embellishments
are
harder and why...
Im trying to understand the pricing of beads. Its a fairly obvious
equation
on the face of things: the more time, the more glass, the more
expensive
the
glass and the trickier the technique is to master the higher priced
the
bead
must be. I imagine that each artist could quantify those elements
somehow,
maybe some have, to get a rough idea of the cost to make a bead.
Then comes the trickier part. How much will someone be willing to
pay
for
that particular bead? If I may go back to the example of the beads
Sooz
posted, from all you *plural ya'lls* have described the surface
design
on
a
clear bead is not the most challenging design and yet someone may be
willing
to pay more for that than an equally well executed bead made of the
most
expensive and testy types of glass. How do you figure that into your
equations?
I do enjoy reading the steps it takes to create the beautiful
beads
you
make. I used to gasp when I looked at the auctions final prices and
now
I
just watch and applaud when they go nice and high. Another bonus is
learning
to see the difference between well done and medium.
Diana

Thank you for the link and your thoughts on the subject. Im trying to gain
a greater appreciation for all the things lampworkers do. Its harder to see
the work involved in a bead that looks as tho it was born, not made. In
other words... there are artists who make the process look effortless.
Diana

"Deepwood Art" wrote in message
anews.com...
In article ,
says...

My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads?

Hi Diana! For me that would be any kind of sculptural.
Don't like 'em, don't do 'em. I DO admire the work of
others, however.

I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes
involved.

Encasing stuff always takes ME (at least) a lot of time...
mainly because it has to be absolutely perfect, otherwise
into the water bucket it goes. Starting over 4 or 5 times
takes time, you know! Lol!

It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these
effects
are achieved

I know the lovely Melinda Melanson has lots of tutorials on
her website. Haven't been there in a while, so I don't
know what's new, but worth a look if you're interested:
http://www.cauldroncreations.com

How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?

I'm probably one of the very few who doesn't fret over
prices, regardless of difficulty. Sure, I like to be able
to cover expenses, that's why I set a minimum price for my
auctions. But to be perfectly honest I'm just as thrilled
to sell a set for $10 as I am to sell a set for $100.

Perhaps if I had to make a living doing this, I'd feel
differently, but fortunately I don't have to. I do it for
the sheer pleasure of doing it, and because I get such a
kick out of watching the glass do its thing. And I
probably would still do it if I never sold a thing.

Wow, so after all that babbling, I guess my answer to your
question is, it doesn't!

--
Fran
~My eBay, if you'd like to visit: http://snipurl.com/56qt

I totally agree with this. There are several artists who I am in awe
of.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
"Diana Curtis" wrote in message
...
Thank you for the link and your thoughts on the subject. Im trying to
gain
a greater appreciation for all the things lampworkers do. Its harder to
see
the work involved in a bead that looks as tho it was born, not made. In
other words... there are artists who make the process look effortless.
Diana

"Deepwood Art" wrote in message
anews.com...
In article ,
says...

My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads?

Hi Diana! For me that would be any kind of sculptural.
Don't like 'em, don't do 'em. I DO admire the work of
others, however.

I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes
involved.

Encasing stuff always takes ME (at least) a lot of time...
mainly because it has to be absolutely perfect, otherwise
into the water bucket it goes. Starting over 4 or 5 times
takes time, you know! Lol!

It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these
effects
are achieved

I know the lovely Melinda Melanson has lots of tutorials on
her website. Haven't been there in a while, so I don't
know what's new, but worth a look if you're interested:
http://www.cauldroncreations.com

How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?

I'm probably one of the very few who doesn't fret over
prices, regardless of difficulty. Sure, I like to be able
to cover expenses, that's why I set a minimum price for my
auctions. But to be perfectly honest I'm just as thrilled
to sell a set for $10 as I am to sell a set for $100.

Perhaps if I had to make a living doing this, I'd feel
differently, but fortunately I don't have to. I do it for
the sheer pleasure of doing it, and because I get such a
kick out of watching the glass do its thing. And I
probably would still do it if I never sold a thing.

Wow, so after all that babbling, I guess my answer to your
question is, it doesn't!

--
Fran
~My eBay, if you'd like to visit: http://snipurl.com/56qt

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
"vj" wrote in message
...
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Kandice Seeber"
:

]I don't use EDP. Ever.

yes. that was what i meant, doll.


-----------
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
newest creations: http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
-----------
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.

I went to that site... took a look at the tutorials... I learned a lot.
Thing is tho, that even knowing what I know now I still dont know how ya'll
do it. :-)
Maybe thats the definition of true art.. the artist makes it look easy...
they seem to not be visible in the process. Does that make sense? Some of
the beads the RCB artists do leave me feeling that way.
Some of yours, even. ;-)
Diana

"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
I totally agree with this. There are several artists who I am in awe
of.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
"Diana Curtis" wrote in message
...
Thank you for the link and your thoughts on the subject. Im trying to
gain
a greater appreciation for all the things lampworkers do. Its harder to
see
the work involved in a bead that looks as tho it was born, not made. In
other words... there are artists who make the process look effortless.
Diana

"Deepwood Art" wrote in message
anews.com...
In article ,
says...

My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads?

Hi Diana! For me that would be any kind of sculptural.
Don't like 'em, don't do 'em. I DO admire the work of
others, however.

I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes
involved.

Encasing stuff always takes ME (at least) a lot of time...
mainly because it has to be absolutely perfect, otherwise
into the water bucket it goes. Starting over 4 or 5 times
takes time, you know! Lol!

It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these
effects
are achieved

I know the lovely Melinda Melanson has lots of tutorials on
her website. Haven't been there in a while, so I don't
know what's new, but worth a look if you're interested:
http://www.cauldroncreations.com

How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?

I'm probably one of the very few who doesn't fret over
prices, regardless of difficulty. Sure, I like to be able
to cover expenses, that's why I set a minimum price for my
auctions. But to be perfectly honest I'm just as thrilled
to sell a set for $10 as I am to sell a set for $100.

Perhaps if I had to make a living doing this, I'd feel
differently, but fortunately I don't have to. I do it for
the sheer pleasure of doing it, and because I get such a
kick out of watching the glass do its thing. And I
probably would still do it if I never sold a thing.

Wow, so after all that babbling, I guess my answer to your
question is, it doesn't!

--
Fran
~My eBay, if you'd like to visit: http://snipurl.com/56qt

I certainly never expected the artists to justify their prices.

Cheers,
Carla

Kandice Seeber wrote:
Oh, I completely understand. I never thought you implied that. I just
get the feeling that when some buyers talk about being able to buy beads for
really low, they are asking for those of us who sell higher to justify that,
or to sell lower because others do. So much goes into the pricing that it's
really hard to compare everyone. And the artistic factor cannot be
compared. No two lampworkers are going to give you the same answer. It may
be difficult for you as the querant to get the answers you need because this
is an art and is difficult to quantify.

Wow, that'a real poser! I can't really answer it conclusively, because
no matter what I say, there will be a "yeah but...". For example, I
could say that encased, plunged florals are more time consuming than
stacked dots, but then, there are dots and there are dots... so I can't
really say that.

I can tell you that one of my encased florals with vines takes me only
slightly longer than one of my ocean waves beads of comparable size, and
part of that is fine dot placement and manipulation of the glass. Every
step of adding or manipulating glass adds to the time, and time adds to
the price, so yes, for me, difficulty relates directly to price.

As an example, beads that are simply a single base color rolled in frit:

Step 1. Melt rod & make base bead
Step 2. Roll in frit, melt smooth.

Whereas encased florals are more like this:

Step 1. Make a striped, encased stringer for vines
Step 2. Make a stringer for petal base color
Step 3. Make a stringer for petal top color
Step 4. Melt rod & make tiny base bead
Step 5. Apply vine stringer, melt smooth
Step 6. Encase, melt smooth
Step 7. Apply 3-4 sets of 3 to 5 tiny dots of petal base color
Step 8. Apply petal top color, melt smooth
Step 9. Spot heat each petal cluster, plunge centers
Step 10. Apply small dot of clear over plunges, melt smooth
Step 11. Apply final encasing layer, melt smooth.

My ocean waves beads:

Step 1. Make a stringer for doing the twists
Step 2. Cut a small piece of silver leaf
Step 3. Make base bead
Step 4. Apply silver leaf; burnish on
Step 5. Apply band of top color, melt smooth
Step 6. Spot-heat and twist edges of top color with cold stringer
Step 7. Gently fire-polish.

It has fewer steps than a floral, but step 6 is very time-consuming.

I hope that kinda, sorta helped answer your question.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


Diana Curtis wrote:
I ask this question in total ignorance of the processes you go thru to make
lampworked beads. Almost total. I know there is melted glass involved, and
mandrels, and release stuff....and flame..
My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads? I see
florals, and stripes that appear pulled around on the surface, and bumps,
and worlds floating inside clear casings, animals, flowers and other
adornments sitting prettily on top of a bead, swirls, blips, frits.. and so
I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes involved.
It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these effects
are achieved, I dont mean to take your time away from actually making beads.
When Sooz posted the url for the clear beads with purple flowers and green
vines I was enchanted with them, and wondered about how hard it is to do
something like that opposed to .. for example.. some of Kalera's beads with
the ocean waves on them, or a sculptural piece such as the dalmation angel
with puppy.
One last question. How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?
Thank you for reading... I hope this sparks some interesting discussions...
Diana

Yes, it did. Hearing the step, seeing the steps gives me much greater
understanding of the processes. I knew they didnt come at the wave of a
magic wand... but often you and the other lampers would speak of encasing..
or dots .. and I saw the end result without the inbetween steps. Thank you
for taking the time to help educate me.
Diana

"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
Wow, that'a real poser! I can't really answer it conclusively, because
no matter what I say, there will be a "yeah but...". For example, I
could say that encased, plunged florals are more time consuming than
stacked dots, but then, there are dots and there are dots... so I can't
really say that.

I can tell you that one of my encased florals with vines takes me only
slightly longer than one of my ocean waves beads of comparable size, and
part of that is fine dot placement and manipulation of the glass. Every
step of adding or manipulating glass adds to the time, and time adds to
the price, so yes, for me, difficulty relates directly to price.

As an example, beads that are simply a single base color rolled in frit:

Step 1. Melt rod & make base bead
Step 2. Roll in frit, melt smooth.

Whereas encased florals are more like this:

Step 1. Make a striped, encased stringer for vines
Step 2. Make a stringer for petal base color
Step 3. Make a stringer for petal top color
Step 4. Melt rod & make tiny base bead
Step 5. Apply vine stringer, melt smooth
Step 6. Encase, melt smooth
Step 7. Apply 3-4 sets of 3 to 5 tiny dots of petal base color
Step 8. Apply petal top color, melt smooth
Step 9. Spot heat each petal cluster, plunge centers
Step 10. Apply small dot of clear over plunges, melt smooth
Step 11. Apply final encasing layer, melt smooth.

My ocean waves beads:

Step 1. Make a stringer for doing the twists
Step 2. Cut a small piece of silver leaf
Step 3. Make base bead
Step 4. Apply silver leaf; burnish on
Step 5. Apply band of top color, melt smooth
Step 6. Spot-heat and twist edges of top color with cold stringer
Step 7. Gently fire-polish.

It has fewer steps than a floral, but step 6 is very time-consuming.

I hope that kinda, sorta helped answer your question.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


Diana Curtis wrote:
I ask this question in total ignorance of the processes you go thru to
make
lampworked beads. Almost total. I know there is melted glass involved,
and
mandrels, and release stuff....and flame..
My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads? I see
florals, and stripes that appear pulled around on the surface, and
bumps,
and worlds floating inside clear casings, animals, flowers and other
adornments sitting prettily on top of a bead, swirls, blips, frits.. and
so
I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes
involved.
It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these
effects
are achieved, I dont mean to take your time away from actually making
beads.
When Sooz posted the url for the clear beads with purple flowers and
green
vines I was enchanted with them, and wondered about how hard it is to do
something like that opposed to .. for example.. some of Kalera's beads
with
the ocean waves on them, or a sculptural piece such as the dalmation
angel
with puppy.
One last question. How does the difficulty level factor into the price
of
the bead?
Thank you for reading... I hope this sparks some interesting
discussions...
Diana

My personal arch-nemesis in glass is Alabastro Dark Periwinkle. You
would cry if you saw this color, because it's so gorgous... and it
shatters into frit the second I look at the flame.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay


vj wrote:
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Kandice Seeber"
:

]Also, sometimes the color of glass I am using will effect the difficulty.

EDP, Kandice???

**grin**


-----------
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
newest creations: http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
-----------
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.